The same.
Should Apple Decrypt the San Bernardino iPhone?
- Thread starter OllieC
- Start date
The same.
Strypes
Well-Known Member
- Dec 10, 2015
- 1,283
- Boat Info
- Sea Ray 400 Sedan Bridge
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest
- Engines
- Twin Caterpillar 3116
Mercury Verado 225 4-Stroke
Thank you for sharing this reading material!
I found it very entertaining, much like all other media! But I suppose if it's on the news, or especially on the Internet, then in has to be true! They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true!
Respectfully, I love my country, and I would be willing to do anything that would help them(Country/Government) out especially when it comes to acts of terrorism, foreign or domestic.
Cheers
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
I am probably in the minority....although I didn't start out that way. After listening to the arguments on this Forum and another Forum I just can't believe the visceral response this gets. What are you hiding on your phone that is so important that you don't want anyone on the planet to know about? How did a software feature turn into an "Absolute Right granted by the Constitution".....that is simply an absurd argument.
In my humble opinion any device that plugs into a Public Network needs to be lawfully compliant. That means that if you are a convicted pedofile and you have a bunch of kids pictures on his phone...you go back to jail. That means if you have DoD classified documents on your phone ....you go to jail. If you have pictures of girls you have abducted and killed....you go to jail.
I appreciate the purists and the conspiracy theorists but honestly all it takes to solve this is a law passed by Congress. These are devices that are part of a public network. These devices would not exist without it.
Tim Cook is an idiot for pushing this. Apple collects untold amounts of data off their devices. If you read your EULAs you gave them that right a long time ago. I hope they come to their senses and figure out a way to solve this quietly. If they don't they will publicly lose this argument.
In my humble opinion any device that plugs into a Public Network needs to be lawfully compliant. That means that if you are a convicted pedofile and you have a bunch of kids pictures on his phone...you go back to jail. That means if you have DoD classified documents on your phone ....you go to jail. If you have pictures of girls you have abducted and killed....you go to jail.
I appreciate the purists and the conspiracy theorists but honestly all it takes to solve this is a law passed by Congress. These are devices that are part of a public network. These devices would not exist without it.
Tim Cook is an idiot for pushing this. Apple collects untold amounts of data off their devices. If you read your EULAs you gave them that right a long time ago. I hope they come to their senses and figure out a way to solve this quietly. If they don't they will publicly lose this argument.
The FBI isn't going to find anything major on this phone, and they know it. They are playing the long game. They are using this incident to set the precedent so that all iphones can be compromised in the future.
If one doesn't assert their rights, they are forfeited. It has nothing to do with hiding anything. It's about maintaining one's privacy and security. This quote from Benjamin Franklin applies directly to this situation "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
MonacoMike
Well-Known Member
- Sep 15, 2009
- 14,721
- Boat Info
- 2000 Cruisers 3870
8.2 Mercs
- Engines
- 85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
260hp Alpha 1
You sir are correct. "For months, the FBI searched for a compelling case that would force Apple to weaken iPhone security – and then the San Bernardino shooting happened"
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/17/inside-the-fbis-encryption-battle-with-apple
Sad, the true reporting is from European sources not the American propaganda groups...
MM
Tonka Boater
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't know?? My banking information, my passwords, personal family photos, confidential business information, client information, business emails, personal emails, travel itineraries, frequent flier/hotel info, my kids' phone numbers, my wife's personal info in case she gets in an accident or hospitalized, pictures of my passport page in case it's lost or stolen while abroad....where should I stop?
I guess I will unlock and decrypt my phone and post all of that info on CSR because, you're right, what am I hiding?
Some people actually take full advantage of the full power and utility of these devices. My phone is an extension of my computer and it's a vault with all of my personal information.
I'm not worried about government... I'm concerned that it could get in the hands of criminals and creating a back door opens the door to this possibility.
Last edited:
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree. Apple put themselves on a collision course with the Feds when they released IOS 8. In my opinion they should have never created or turned on the "self-destruct" feature. By doing so they have divided the population into two groups: ones that quote Benjamin Franklin and the others that support law enforcement and want to use every tool available to put bad guys away. You can't have it both ways in a country based on laws. I don't care who looks at my iphone.....I stopped keeping anything important on it when I got married for the second time.
Woody
Well-Known Member
It's not about whether or not you have 'something to hide', it's about 'hey, that ain't none of your goddamned business'.
Bt Doctur
Well-Known Member
I support Tim Cook and Apple for standing up to the govt. There, I said it so I`m on their watch list now.
Lets say you have a new car with wi-fi, gps navigation, other electronic goodies , the black box to record crash info, etc
Right now the govt can track your car if it wants to, see where ,how fast and how far you drove, where you purchased goods and gas. They can track your phone, your e-z-pass ,hell they have even put trackers under your car.
When I want to do nefarious things, I plug in the gps jammer, I shut the phone off and put it in a lead lined case, same with the ez pass transponder.
Opps, forgot about the bio-chip the govt injected me with at birth, nothing to hide,yea right.
Know any doctors who can remove it?
Lets say you have a new car with wi-fi, gps navigation, other electronic goodies , the black box to record crash info, etc
Right now the govt can track your car if it wants to, see where ,how fast and how far you drove, where you purchased goods and gas. They can track your phone, your e-z-pass ,hell they have even put trackers under your car.
When I want to do nefarious things, I plug in the gps jammer, I shut the phone off and put it in a lead lined case, same with the ez pass transponder.
Opps, forgot about the bio-chip the govt injected me with at birth, nothing to hide,yea right.
Know any doctors who can remove it?
Last edited:
RubberDuckeeToo2
Active Member
- Oct 21, 2006
- 472
- Boat Info
- '98 370 Sundancer
'97 SeaDoo Speedster 14'
- Engines
- 7.4 Mercuisers
Let's take Apple's name off of this. Would your reactions be any different if it were Google or Bank of America?
This is clearly not about the San Bernadino shootings. Consider what the FBI has access to already; emails to and from through the ISPs, texts over the phones, phone call records and data from the hard drives on their personal computers that the shooters thought they were destroying. Don't forget that this is a County issued phone and the FBI also has the data from their personal cellphones. Then let's throw in the iCloud backups from Apple that they have from six weeks prior to the shooting. You can bet that the FBI also has good old fashioned detective work from their gumshoes fleshing out the balance of the picture.
Then let's throw in the fact that the Feds screwed themselves from getting any further data from newer iCloud backups when they instructed the owner of the phone, the County, to change the Apple ID password so that the phone would not back up automatically to iCloud when it finds a known wifi access point. Had they not changed the passcode, the phone would have added additional data to the iCloud backup which Apple could have delivered.
No, the Feds have a bigger target in mind - all data encryption. It has been on their minds all along.
Then let's talk about what the court order does. It requires a private company to create a software tool that does not exist in the form the Feds want, all at no cost to the government regardless of the time spent by software and hardware engineers to craft this tool. Last time I looked at the Constitution, there was a prohibition against the government taking private property without compensation. Again, forgetting all about whether this case could be used as a precedent to require any other private company to become a virtual slave to the government for any reason at any time in the future.
Finally, speaking as a courtroom lawyer, there are the issues of evidence. Even if this tool were created and information was gleaned from the phone, the defense lawyers could challenge anyone charged with any criminal activity resulting from that data without full disclosure of the chain of custody and methodology used to retrieve the data. That would result in disclosure of the methodology used in creating and using this tool. Due process under the Constitution requires this disclosure so that the trusteworthiness of the information can be tested before it can be used as evidence. The master key would then be released from Pandora's Box. Then the hackers march in, resulting in even larger losses from the fraudulent use of the data.
What we are looking at is the escalation of the Cold War over data encryption exponentially as tech races to stay ahead of the law. Whatever the outcome, it will not be good and privacy will suffer.
Gene
This is clearly not about the San Bernadino shootings. Consider what the FBI has access to already; emails to and from through the ISPs, texts over the phones, phone call records and data from the hard drives on their personal computers that the shooters thought they were destroying. Don't forget that this is a County issued phone and the FBI also has the data from their personal cellphones. Then let's throw in the iCloud backups from Apple that they have from six weeks prior to the shooting. You can bet that the FBI also has good old fashioned detective work from their gumshoes fleshing out the balance of the picture.
Then let's throw in the fact that the Feds screwed themselves from getting any further data from newer iCloud backups when they instructed the owner of the phone, the County, to change the Apple ID password so that the phone would not back up automatically to iCloud when it finds a known wifi access point. Had they not changed the passcode, the phone would have added additional data to the iCloud backup which Apple could have delivered.
No, the Feds have a bigger target in mind - all data encryption. It has been on their minds all along.
Then let's talk about what the court order does. It requires a private company to create a software tool that does not exist in the form the Feds want, all at no cost to the government regardless of the time spent by software and hardware engineers to craft this tool. Last time I looked at the Constitution, there was a prohibition against the government taking private property without compensation. Again, forgetting all about whether this case could be used as a precedent to require any other private company to become a virtual slave to the government for any reason at any time in the future.
Finally, speaking as a courtroom lawyer, there are the issues of evidence. Even if this tool were created and information was gleaned from the phone, the defense lawyers could challenge anyone charged with any criminal activity resulting from that data without full disclosure of the chain of custody and methodology used to retrieve the data. That would result in disclosure of the methodology used in creating and using this tool. Due process under the Constitution requires this disclosure so that the trusteworthiness of the information can be tested before it can be used as evidence. The master key would then be released from Pandora's Box. Then the hackers march in, resulting in even larger losses from the fraudulent use of the data.
What we are looking at is the escalation of the Cold War over data encryption exponentially as tech races to stay ahead of the law. Whatever the outcome, it will not be good and privacy will suffer.
Gene
Boat Guy
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2013
- 2,289
- Boat Info
- 400 DA
- Engines
- CAT 3116s
poof....
Last edited:
War Eagle
Member
- Aug 22, 2015
- 115
- Boat Info
- 1987 SR 270 Amberjack ... "Seabiscuit"
- Engines
- Twin Merc I/O's 4 cyl 150 hp (PIA's) Alphas
Re power in process!
Privacy is what YOU make of it! (For the life of me I cannot understand the attraction of FaceBook.)
IMHO devices which use public utilities (like the cell phone RF spectrum) should not legally be designed to provide blanket protection for those who would use them to facilitate illegal acts. Kinda stupid on our part don't you think?
If you are smart and you have something to keep private, its really not a problem. Encryption ain't a new idea.
If you are a bad guy and you are dumb enough to leave your tracks on a cell phone ... you get what you deserve ... in the case of terrorist ... a short piece of rope!
Why do we think we have to make it easy for them to kill us all!
Wonder how Cook would feel if the dirty bomb goes off in the Apple Lobby.
One last question, why should anyone make profit while facilitating the destruction of the system that made it possible in the first place!
IMHO devices which use public utilities (like the cell phone RF spectrum) should not legally be designed to provide blanket protection for those who would use them to facilitate illegal acts. Kinda stupid on our part don't you think?
If you are smart and you have something to keep private, its really not a problem. Encryption ain't a new idea.
If you are a bad guy and you are dumb enough to leave your tracks on a cell phone ... you get what you deserve ... in the case of terrorist ... a short piece of rope!
Why do we think we have to make it easy for them to kill us all!
Wonder how Cook would feel if the dirty bomb goes off in the Apple Lobby.
One last question, why should anyone make profit while facilitating the destruction of the system that made it possible in the first place!
With all due respect, trying to pit those who believe in privacy as being against law enforcement is wrong.
I absolutely support law enforcement and want them to be able to do their job. I also recognize the constitution is first, and that law enforcement has to work within its bounds and not to be all powerful and abusive. The people have rights, law enforcement isn't allowed to ignore those rights because it makes their job harder.
Last edited:
PlayDate
Well-Known Member
The Island idea is much better than DC is now!
As I posted earlier, I started out on the other side of the issue. Apple could have handled this quietly and this issue would not have blown up on them. Now they have stirred the emotions of a lot of people on both sides of the issue. Today's version are the families of those who were killed in San Bernadino who are don't understand why Apple won't help. On the other side is the former Director of the CIA, General Hayden saying back doors make America unsafe. I'm sure both are right.
Without going into to the details my day job is software. I am very familiar with IOS and what Apple has accomplished. That said, no developer likes where Apple has gone in restricting the iphone. They have created a walled garden around IOS replete with claymore mines. As a result, they control the entire infrastructure which is seriously problematic. No developer wants to talk about it for fear that Apple will shut them down. That arrogance has led them to where they are now. I think Apple has great products but this issue is a major distraction for them.
How fast is the internet on the island?
Tonka Boater
Well-Known Member
This is not the same issue at all. None of your examples included encrypted personal data -- this is all available with a standard court order. Tracking your whereabouts, etc. is similar to traffic cameras and being incidentally caught on camera...you're not protected because you're in public and you're not making an explicit effort to protect anonymity.
On the flip side, if you have confidential business information or personal information on a personal device that you are intentionally making efforts to protect... a company cannot be forced to decrypt that information for anyone.
Woud a company that makes safes be allowed to come into your home and unlock your safe because the FBI asked them too? Or should you be forced to give up the combination? No..that's self incrimination.
Boater420
Well-Known Member
- Mar 11, 2015
- 1,259
- Boat Info
- '97 330 Sundancer
V-Drives
Westerbeke 4.5BCG
- Engines
- Twin Merc 454's
CSR isn't much different than FaceBook.
Tonka Boater
Well-Known Member
+100... exactly right on all accounts.
Boat Guy
Well-Known Member
- May 15, 2013
- 2,289
- Boat Info
- 400 DA
- Engines
- CAT 3116s
poof....
Last edited:
Strypes
Well-Known Member
- Dec 10, 2015
- 1,283
- Boat Info
- Sea Ray 400 Sedan Bridge
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest
- Engines
- Twin Caterpillar 3116
Mercury Verado 225 4-Stroke
Huge. HUGE difference.
Do you know who I am? Could you find me on here if you did know who I was?
I personally feel that there is a big difference between social media and "specific interest" internet forums.
I've never had a Facebook account. I've never wanted a Facebook account. I never will have a Facebook account.
The people that I want to know where I'm at and what I'm doing, they know! I'm still "friends" with my "friends"!
But that's not what this thread is about!
Now back to our regular scheduled program...
Tonka Boater
Well-Known Member
As an iOS developer, I disagree. My day job is in advanced analytics and I also own a software development firm. People say that Apple's walled garden is problematic but I disagree wholeheartedly. Getting locked into their ecosystem as a consumer is a different argument... from a technology standpoint, the walled garden allows Apple to control all aspects of their devices and that makes them inherently more secure. For a developer like me, it makes my apps more secure and makes development extremely efficient.
Keep in mind, Apple is far different than Google and Microsoft. Apple is a hardware company that makes software specifically for their devices. Google and Microsoft are the exact inverse of Apple. Google and Microsoft are, first and foremost, services and software companies who happen to make a few devices. Their devices are only intended to showcase their services and software but by and large, they make software and provide services.
Why point out that distinction? When you develop platforms for services and software, as Google and MS do, you are inherently more open because you're providing a foundation for others to build on. Apple creates hard goods and provides a software platform for developing on those goods -- hence, it's a more controlled, secure environment. Is that bad? No, it's a different business model than the others.
Just one more distinction on what the FBI is demanding from Apple. The FBI is NOT asking Apple to extract the data on Apple's turf and hand over the information to FBI. No, the FBI demanding that Apple re-write the firmware for iOS in a way that will allow Apple into the phone with a court order and it will allow the FBI to brute-force the password. That is beyond just helping to catch bad guys. This would make the whole platform insecure and open Apple's devices to hackers and rogue nations. Pandora's Box.
Last edited:
