Shed collapse at Georgetown Md

Jack F said:
Change building codes. on new construction
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The building codes at the time were "probably" adequate, it is just that no one followed them for this type of structure. Most of these sheds were build by "good ole boys" without permits and inspections. And at the time the structures were unique enough that an inspector would not know if it was right anyway.

These buildings were not engineered, they were just built. Since most are 30-40 years old, they are mostly at the end of their useful lives. Pretty sure that now that there have been several total failures with significant loss of property, any future re-building will have to be done to modern codes and standards.

So recommendations for going forward?

1. Survey the remaining structures and make sure there are not significant problems. Have an engineers verify the capacities and make recommendations for repairs and adequate lateral bracing etc.
2. Or cut the roofs off and have open slips
3. Or rebuild to code and not have to worry

We did #1 above and determined ours was not repairable based on current codes. No engineer would sign off on the basic structure meeting code.

We considered #2, but as condo slips, that would be like pouring buckets of money in the water.

We concluded our only option was #3.

FYI, don't be surprised of the insurance companies start taking a harder look at these structures. These may become an uninsurable risk in the near future.
 
As one of those "PLC Programmers". I'll bet I can even automate it We can even add an automated tilt lift, hydraulic lifters on one side to tilt the entire roof up to a steep angle to let the snow just fall off. Of course it will have to be safety interlocked so not to raise if anyone or any boat is in the “dump range”. Come on Gary I’ll bet we can make a mint on this.


Then again, we can just move my entire post into the Dumbest **** I heard thread.
 
560sdl,
Do you mind sharing what the individual assessment was to rebuild the shed properly? I bet it was brutal. What did you do if an individual slip owner "opted-out"?
Just curious...
 
festivus44 said:
560sdl,
Do you mind sharing what the individual assessment was to rebuild the shed properly? I bet it was brutal. What did you do if an individual slip owner "opted-out"?
Just curious...
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Yes it was brutal. It was in the neighborhood of $60-65K per slip. A very large part of that cost was the pilings that we needed because our soil was so bad. We had to go 100' deep in many places with 13" steel pilings filled with concrete. If you soil is better you would save quite a bit.

Also ours included full demo which, sadly, you will not have to do at this point. Also your insurance would help defray the cost I would think.

I could write a book on the process and how we went about it because it was difficult with 30+ owners. It took a lot to convince people that had been in that shed for 30+ years to believe it was falling down around them. I am an architect and was head of our committee and I did a LOT of documenting and presentations.

One other huge and unanticipated complication was that these were imperfect existing slips. The various 60' long slips could vary by 2-5' in width. Not a great scenario for a more precise steel structure. Also we discovered along the way that our finger piers could not be salvaged because of the minor re-spacing that was required.

I should stop, I am starting to re-live my nightmares:smt101

Ultimately we saved a lot by hiring a construction manager, who worked very closely with me, to eliminate a general contractor and his mark-ups. When you think about it, we had demo, piling work and steel structure. So we had 3 major subs and had labor to do the rest.
 
festivus44 said:
I think I can summarize from what I've learned from my friends in Wisconsin and Florida:

* buy the 60 foot articulating pole I discussed earlier, AND resurrect Jesus from the dead so he can walk on water to use it (there is ice between the fairways, but right underneath the roof is water)
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I’ve got an idea what you can do with the 60’ pole…..oh never mind..:grin:
 
I just cannot understand all of the name calling about nay-sayers.

At one time people considered things about people being pro-active.

One makes a comment about someone being proactive and you would have thought one had slapped the Pope.

You can bet there have been many military people who have had to do things in very bad conditions, but it seems that if one asks a question about that today, being proactive. some have to get their knickers all in a wad.

Our sorry litigation society, so the next time you are out on your boat and it gets rough why just throw your hands up and roll over and play dead.

The only think I recall being asked is why nothing was not attempted before hand. No reason to go about criticizing someone for asking.

Hell if one has ever watched deadliest catch , it would certainly make sense that someone could have possible got onto a roof beforehand.

Puke.. just puke :smt013
 
Pseudomind said:
I just cannot understand all of the name calling about nay-sayers.


Hell if one has ever watched deadliest catch , it would certainly make sense that someone could have possible got onto a roof beforehand.

Puke.. just puke :smt013
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Ever wonder why it is called "deadliest catch"?
 
quality time said:
Heck, I'd have gone on that roof if my share was $30-50,000.
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You can’t. If you fall you will fall on ice. Didn’t you hear? Ice man! It’s like water, but frozen. Frozen water is much more dangerous to fall on then frozen ground. If you fall and land on the ground you will be dead but if you land on ice you will be more dead.

Just ask this falling fat girl. She knows.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0l_sPOsss[/youtube]
 
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sean257 said:
Wow, it is easy and fun to judge others on the internet!

Sorry to hear about the losses for those who truly cared about their boats.

On the bright side for some folks however - no need for the bank to take their boat now, and ruin their credit, or - no need to try to sell their used boat in the worst market many can recall.

Also, now there will be some buyers looking to replace their used boat.

Some other things I have thought of as a result of reading this thread:
Up north guy - are most of these roofs being cleared up north over water, and/or likely to collapse at any moment? It would likely cost more to heat trace every roof everywhere there might be heavy snow in the country than to replace the relatively few marina's that fail, and the boats that go down with them. The same thing happened at the Lake of the Ozarks in 2006, and yet I see no heat traced marina roofs.

Move the boats into open water guy - The water is frozen. If the water wasn't frozen, or you just want to go through icebreaker style - what about re winterizing, and securing all of the boats in the wind? Also, with travel being difficult, how many people could even get there, even between the storms? I cant see pulling boats out on an icy ramp...
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I don’t think anyone was judging or making fun of the situation. I know I wasn’t. I think the “there is nothing that could possibly have been done” type comments surprised some of us. That may have been the case at the marina, no one really on duty and also the question of who would even make such decisions. It’s a shame it happened but the casualties were only boats. As you suggest, some boat owners might benefit but I have a hunch there will be more that come up short.

A CSR members posted a story about a MD school gym roof that collapsed last weekend, luckily not on Friday night when it was full of people. The east coast weather has been record setting and not the norm but there have been similar events in the past. The roof conditions certainly would be a responsibility of some one within that school system. I would hope that not many parents would find “waiting for the sun to come out” an acceptable solution to a couple months of abnormal snow accumulation. I suspect this kind of weather is infrequent enough down there that people just don’t think about “what if we get more”.

As one of the Up North Guys here’s my .02.…..As far as heat tape and heat panels go it is correct that they really aren’t to melt snow off a roof but to keep channels open to prevent ice dams, water backing up and possible water damage. They’ll spin the wheels on the electric meter. When I was young I did snow removal for a couple years. I don’t see what difference working over land or water would make unless your tether was too long. The main issue might be “how we gonna get up on this one”. Actually sometimes I was over water but it was pretty solid if you know what I mean. The snow rake thing does have it’s uses but the large area low pitch marina roofs wouldn’t be one. Anything longer than about 20’ becomes very hard to handle. Every one of them I’ve seen are made to pull and you need a place to stand, obviously this could be a problem at a marina.

Here’s a article from the Minot, ND daily news some of you might find interesting. Note the pic of a crane lifting a snow blower onto the roof.
http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/content.detail/id/523190.html?nav=5010

Arrowhead Shopping Center closed Wednesday afternoon as a precaution because of heavy snow accumulation on the roof.
Michelle Saari, spokeswoman for IRET Properties, said it is uncertain how long the shopping center will be closed. Crews were removing snow from the roof Wednesday. Saari said inspectors will be examining the roof to determine whether it is safe to re-open the center or if other maintenance is required first.
The shopping center at 1600-2nd Ave. SW closed at 1 p.m.
Due to record snow falls throughout the state, the company is inspecting its properties for snow accumulation and load capacity and is taking steps to ensure the safety of its tenants and the general public.
Earlier this week, IRET Properties temporarily closed the Jamestown Buffalo Mall and the Jamestown Business Center, both in Jamestown. The properties will be re-opened to the public after the excess snow has been removed and the buildings confirmed as safe.
IRET Properties, headquartered in Minot, owns 165 commercial properties and 77 multi-family complexes located primarily in the Midwest
 
bunny_pancake1.jpg
 
Woody, you are making a logical post with a real world example of how to deal with this, photo included.

They don’t want to hear it.

Just, wait, next they will say the photo is a fake or that you should never use a snow blower because if you put your hand down the chute with it running your hand will be gone.

They want to be victims.
Here I thought we were amongst conservatives. You know, the type that say “I made it work and you can too!” Guess not.


2266486337_bfed452d38-simpsons-obama.jpg
 
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Who's name calling now?

I'm no victim. I would never store my boat under one of those rickity-ass sheds.

Keep sending examples from the snow belt.

That's real helpful.
 
Putting a running snowblower on the roof of a rickety shed that is on the verge of collapse with 120v of electricity running around the edge to heat the gutters in the middle of a blizzard with 50mph winds? That's even better...

That's going on the list.
 
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Presentation said:
Woody, you are making a logical post with a real world example of how to deal with this, photo included.

They don’t want to hear it.

Just, wait, next they will say the photo is a fake or that you should never use a snow blower because if you put your hand down the chute with it running your hand will be gone.

They want to be victims.
Here I thought we were amongst conservatives. You know, the type that say “I made it work and you can too!” Guess not.
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Ok first there is a statement about “name calling” which I can’t find an example of and now there is “they don’t want to hear it” statement. Good lord almighty here, I got myself into a dueling keyboard debate about the logic of “putting people on the roof” of an already unstable, snow covered, windblown, 30 feet above freezing water structure. That is it, go back and ready the entire thread and I’ll take it all back if you can find otherwise. I do believe I remained relatively civil as well. Now I am not even sure why I wasted my time.
 
I'm thinking a 240v 3-phase electric snowblower would be appropriate in 3' of snow on a roof that is 30' over the ice-cold water... "marine grade" of course.

I'm thinking a flame thrower on the roof might be safer...
 
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