Shed collapse at Georgetown Md
- Thread starter SCORPIO
- Start date
Look at these pictures of Hurricane Charley that hit down in Port Charlotte.
and
If these people would have just boarded up their windows or, better yet, went out and boarded up the windows when the storm came, none of this would have happened. How come they are so stupid as to not protect their property?
Look at this guy:
See! He's the smart one... out wading in the water with all those electrical lines dangling in them (I'm sure none of them had power so he's very very safe). He's probably clearing drains just to protect his property like he should. BRAVO! He should be an inspiration to all the people not smart enough to get on a metal roof 30 feet above the ice cold water and sweep snow...
and
If these people would have just boarded up their windows or, better yet, went out and boarded up the windows when the storm came, none of this would have happened. How come they are so stupid as to not protect their property?
Look at this guy:
See! He's the smart one... out wading in the water with all those electrical lines dangling in them (I'm sure none of them had power so he's very very safe). He's probably clearing drains just to protect his property like he should. BRAVO! He should be an inspiration to all the people not smart enough to get on a metal roof 30 feet above the ice cold water and sweep snow...
And when it comes to the midwest...
Look at these stupid homeowners:
They just let their houses float away in the flood. They should have seen the flood coming down the river and taken preventative action. No one should feel sorry for them. They deserved it. They should be out there wading or in a boat and trying to retrieve their houses.
Look at this little girl in the flood:
She's smart enough to wade waist deep in the flood waters to get her bike out. Now that's using the noodle! I'm sure nothing unexpected can happen by doing that. She should be an inspiration to all of you lazy people who just stood by and let the snow collapse your roof...
Need to find some earthquake pictures now for the west coast. Don't want to leave them out.
Look at these stupid homeowners:
They just let their houses float away in the flood. They should have seen the flood coming down the river and taken preventative action. No one should feel sorry for them. They deserved it. They should be out there wading or in a boat and trying to retrieve their houses.
Look at this little girl in the flood:
She's smart enough to wade waist deep in the flood waters to get her bike out. Now that's using the noodle! I'm sure nothing unexpected can happen by doing that. She should be an inspiration to all of you lazy people who just stood by and let the snow collapse your roof...
Need to find some earthquake pictures now for the west coast. Don't want to leave them out.
SR400DB
Active Member
- Mar 18, 2008
- 975
- Boat Info
- 2003 400DB, Simrad NSS12, 6100i, Furuno Navtex, KVH M3 Harbormaster Mark II
- Engines
- Cummins 6 CTA'S 8.3 417 BHP.
Even though I am in California, I will make a comment. This past December we had 14" of snow at our place ( a record). I have a 75' by 175' clear span building built in 1995 out of wood with a 6 and 12 roof pitch (26.57 degrees) with hi rib galv. metal roofing. We were only required to design the truss' to accomodate a 12" snowfall. I have years of experience up on steep roof's. I was outside watching trees fall, power lines fall etc and seriously thought about getting up on the roof and clearing the snow. I made an attempt (for practice) to clear a small shed of the snow. I immediately got back down, it is VERY, VERY dangerous to get on a roof with snow/ice/wind. Not to mention over freezing water? It is pretty niave to mention clearing snow from the roof during/between storms. I know, I tried first hand at our home and was an idiot for making that attempt.
Lady Whale II
New Member
Thanks to all for their support. We were at the marina this last weekend and saw the devistation. All we could see of our boat was the bow pulpit poking out from under the fallen shed. Took lots of pictures, talked to the insurance company, and are now just crossing our fingers. All we can do is be sympathy with all who have been impacted by this catastrophic failure.
- Mar 25, 2008
- 5,526
- Boat Info
- 2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
- Engines
- MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
Lady Whale II -I'm speechless - I'm so sorry for you. That has to be a awful feeling.
quality time
Well-Known Member
- Oct 30, 2007
- 2,365
- Boat Info
- Miss Stress
2006 50' Post
- Engines
- Series 60 Detroits
Lady Whale-
I saw your pulpit sticking out also, sorry for your loss.
I saw your pulpit sticking out also, sorry for your loss.
tobnpr
New Member
C'mon Gary-
Comparing a CAT 5 hurricane to what we're discussing? That's ridiculous.
Buildings- unlike boats- cannot be moved out of harm's way.
In fact, for trailerable boats, most FL insurance policies REQUIRE you to move your boat- or you're on your own.
Structural failures of other buildings like the one you showed could be due to many factors. Were the calculations for live and dead roof loads done correctly by the engineer? Was the structural steel adequately sized and of the required strenghts? Was the assembly and welding done correctly? I find it hard to believe that, in an area where it DOES snow, that there isn't a substantial safety margin built into the engineering calcs. Time will tell on that one...
If they had moved the boats after the first storm, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So I'll ask you- if you had gotten a phone call from the marina manager "Hey, Gary- we've got three feet of snow on the roof over your boat- we're not sure it's going to stand up to the next storm coming in a few days. Can you come down and help us move your boat?
Never mind...
Comparing a CAT 5 hurricane to what we're discussing? That's ridiculous.
Buildings- unlike boats- cannot be moved out of harm's way.
In fact, for trailerable boats, most FL insurance policies REQUIRE you to move your boat- or you're on your own.
Structural failures of other buildings like the one you showed could be due to many factors. Were the calculations for live and dead roof loads done correctly by the engineer? Was the structural steel adequately sized and of the required strenghts? Was the assembly and welding done correctly? I find it hard to believe that, in an area where it DOES snow, that there isn't a substantial safety margin built into the engineering calcs. Time will tell on that one...
If they had moved the boats after the first storm, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So I'll ask you- if you had gotten a phone call from the marina manager "Hey, Gary- we've got three feet of snow on the roof over your boat- we're not sure it's going to stand up to the next storm coming in a few days. Can you come down and help us move your boat?
Never mind...
SCORPIO
Well-Known Member
I cleared the snow from four of my buildings between the snow storms because I was afraid of what another two feet of snow would do. I did it myself, without safety harnesses or air bags. I would NOT have had an employee on ANY roof as my insurance would not condone that. Further, I would NOT have gotten on one of those sheds due to the fact of them being over cold water. Not that falling from a two story building onto snow would be safe, but it was a calculated, manageable risk I was willing to take.
To the person who made the comment about steel buildings being safe; back in the '90s, I was in a brand new state of the art refrigerated warehouse during a record setting snow/ice event cycle for our area. I mentioned to the manager that the roof supports looked to be sagging. He said the engineers had looked at the roof system and done calculations that concluded that the roof was able to support the loads and no action would be taken to remove the snow load. Two days later the entire building collapsed, ruining over 5 million dollars worth of frozen food. 500 trailer loads went to the land fill. Also caused an anhydrous ammonia refrigerant release. Bottom line, even steel roofs, when over loaded, can and do collapse.
Another thing I learned during that winter is that many insurance companies don't cover damages/loss from roof collapse due to snow load, unless such coverage is specifically enumerated in the policy. I inquired with my agent as to what I was supposed to do about snow load, and he told me to get the snow off the roof. Incidentally, snow load coverage is not very expensive to add to your homeowners policy, I did it duing the winter of 1996.
I'm not suggesting anything or trying to armchair quarterback. I would not expect anyone to put their life on the line to save someone elses property. What happened in the mid Atlantic was unprecedneted and tragic and my deepest sympathies go out to all the affected parties who lost property in the storm.
P.S. everyone who has a boat stored on the hard should go check on it and remove snow and ice that has accumulated. I did this over the weekend and found my cover had collected a large amount of water and ice that surely would have done damage if I'd left it on the boat for much longer. I also saw many boats sitting totally uncovered and full to the gunwales with snow and ice. Ice was frozen out the scuppers and rain is forecast. I can't help wonder what people think is adequate preparation for outdoor winter storage in the mid Atlantic.
To the person who made the comment about steel buildings being safe; back in the '90s, I was in a brand new state of the art refrigerated warehouse during a record setting snow/ice event cycle for our area. I mentioned to the manager that the roof supports looked to be sagging. He said the engineers had looked at the roof system and done calculations that concluded that the roof was able to support the loads and no action would be taken to remove the snow load. Two days later the entire building collapsed, ruining over 5 million dollars worth of frozen food. 500 trailer loads went to the land fill. Also caused an anhydrous ammonia refrigerant release. Bottom line, even steel roofs, when over loaded, can and do collapse.
Another thing I learned during that winter is that many insurance companies don't cover damages/loss from roof collapse due to snow load, unless such coverage is specifically enumerated in the policy. I inquired with my agent as to what I was supposed to do about snow load, and he told me to get the snow off the roof. Incidentally, snow load coverage is not very expensive to add to your homeowners policy, I did it duing the winter of 1996.
I'm not suggesting anything or trying to armchair quarterback. I would not expect anyone to put their life on the line to save someone elses property. What happened in the mid Atlantic was unprecedneted and tragic and my deepest sympathies go out to all the affected parties who lost property in the storm.
P.S. everyone who has a boat stored on the hard should go check on it and remove snow and ice that has accumulated. I did this over the weekend and found my cover had collected a large amount of water and ice that surely would have done damage if I'd left it on the boat for much longer. I also saw many boats sitting totally uncovered and full to the gunwales with snow and ice. Ice was frozen out the scuppers and rain is forecast. I can't help wonder what people think is adequate preparation for outdoor winter storage in the mid Atlantic.
Last edited:
Converse48
Well-Known Member
Exactly where would you suggest they move the boats to? The fairway between the piers was iced in. As was the rest of the river...
Sheesh, give it a rest man.
Lady Whale, I am sorry for your loss and wish you all the best.
quality time
Well-Known Member
- Oct 30, 2007
- 2,365
- Boat Info
- Miss Stress
2006 50' Post
- Engines
- Series 60 Detroits
The most obvious reason that the boats were not moved was because there was nowhere else to put them. You're talking 100+ boats on 4 docks that all required 50' and 60' slips... non available. Parking lot has been full since November.
Not to mention that the fairways were frozen solid and they have only been able to move 12 boats per day because of this. So again, how do you move 100+ boats in 5 days?
The other thing to mention is that we had a fellow boater drown at the marina in December. Do you think that wasn't weighing on managements mind when they decided not to go up on the roof or call everyone to help move boats?
Not to mention that the fairways were frozen solid and they have only been able to move 12 boats per day because of this. So again, how do you move 100+ boats in 5 days?
The other thing to mention is that we had a fellow boater drown at the marina in December. Do you think that wasn't weighing on managements mind when they decided not to go up on the roof or call everyone to help move boats?
Nehalennia
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2007
- 10,006
- Boat Info
- 2001 310DA twin 350 MAGs, Westerbeke 4.5KW
- Engines
- Twin 350 MAG V-drives
That's what I was going to ask? Wasn't the marina frozen over? Where are you suppose to go? I'd like to see the verbage in the INS contract stating that.
Double Ditto…. To both “give it a rest!” and “very sorry for you loss” to Lady Whale.
All of us here, though our views on the events may differ, all share common thoughts in wishing you the best of fortune in your loss recovery.
PS. To the rest of your slip mates as well.
560sdl
New Member
One thing you have to realize is that these structures were generally built in the 70 and early 80's and were NOT subject to traditional building codes, permits or inspections during construction. We looked at repairing our wood structure at Piney Narrows and there was no engineer we could find that could make the basic structure meet code under any repair scenario.
We in fact looked at one of the structures that failed at Bohemia where they put a steel structure over existing wood pilings and had several people convinced that it would never work long term. The old wood structures are a real problem and the larger ones are going to keep coming down until the are all gone.
We in fact looked at one of the structures that failed at Bohemia where they put a steel structure over existing wood pilings and had several people convinced that it would never work long term. The old wood structures are a real problem and the larger ones are going to keep coming down until the are all gone.
Last edited:
jrirvine1
Member
Yes, after studying the before and after pictures of Bo Bay, I also think that the structure attached to the wood pilings was a major contributing factor. Basically, this created a hinge at the connection. Equally as important is that the sheds had no lateral bracing.
It is also important to understand that when building codes are established, typically they are written to address the severest weather a region has in about 100 years. This storm on top of a storm most likely exceeded the basic loading requirements in our area. When interviewing a structural engineer to have a structure like these built, select the guy that will always wear a belt with his suspenders.
My heart goes out to all that had a loss here. I am certain many of these boats had sentimental value that is irreplaceable. Fortunately, there was no loss of life.
Exactly... climbing up on a 30' high rickity structure in a blizzard over ice cold water probably would have changed that statement.
560sdl
New Member
When we studied our old structure there was an ongoing practice of people going up on the roofs to service various things. The engineers basically said "no more people on that roof, period." That was dry!
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
Exactly. Lets continue to ignore the fact that
#1) Heat tape exists and is common in the north
#2) there was a lull between the two separate storms when there was not 50 MPH winds.
#3) Clearing roofs of show by hand is done all the time in the north. You don’t wait until spring to do it.
No matter how often we are reminded of these points, just ignore these posts.
…..move along folks, nothing to see here….
Last edited:
Pres, OK we can agree that Heat Tape or some other mechanism to melt snow, remove snow or otherwise protect the roofs from crashing down on millions of dollars worth of boats, airplanes, fire trucks, or school buildings. All of which happened here. But remember this is not “up north”; this was an extreme situation to the Mid-Atlantic States, so therefore no one was prepared for such a thing. Not to mention that added whammy of the high winds, so I don’t think the heat tape would help with that.
How much revision has gone into building codes over the years in cities build in earthquake or hurricane areas, and every bit of those revisions have come from what was learned after the events not before. We will do what every other community in the past that has suffer damage from Mother Nature, clean up, rebuild, and learn.
Pseudomind
Active Member
- Jul 1, 2008
- 2,122
- Boat Info
- 2011 Hurricane with Magic Tilt Trailer
- Engines
- 115 HP Yamaha Four Stroke
And fit the EPA, here in Jacksonville covered slips Marina's cannot be built anymore due to blocking sunlight to the water. Open slip docks even have a hard time. Since these were already covered they can probably rebuild, but?
Have you slapped a tree hugger today? I am not-anti-environment, just do not agree with the inmates running the asylum Compromise and balance, not all or nothing.
