Question for the Garmin Autopilot Boys?

[Skybolt]

... That is crazy what YD has come out with. I also need to take a look at that, but not sure how that would be compatible with any chart plotter, other then reading the NAV data off of the N2K bus. Still very interesting, I wonder if it will take the compass data from a GPS24xd? ...

I stand corrected, there is an app that runs in the MFD. This screen shot is for the Simrad EVO units. This is crazy that they have such a device in such a small package. I mean it's only a course computer and it needs a compass on the N2K network to function, but still, it looks like a fully featured device.

But I guess here is the rub:

"It can control vessels up to 40" and 12 tonnes displacement"

I am guessing the 40" should be 40'.

 

[Skybolt]

I didn't mean rudder was a device, just that the PGN shows up in the N2K data stream:
View attachment 153618
I can then see the value in the CAN View Navigation view:
View attachment 153619
When I turn on the data stream, line 19 bounces between two values which must be the VV and Garmin-connected sensors. I assume the rudder# refers to the instance and if I can change that, I should see a value on line 20. @rlynch03's fix will I think cause the VV to ignore its own sensor and not send it to the N2K bus. I will try that as well and see what happens.

So if a PGN has a support device type like the rudder sender then that makes it a device. So you can add it to a data bar if you like, much like COG or Heading is. Even though COG isn't a physical device it is a real value that can be displayed.

 

[alnav]

So if a PGN has a support device type like the rudder sender then that makes it a device. So you can add it to a data bar if you like, much like COG or Heading is. Even though COG isn't a physical device it is a real value that can be displayed.

Makes sense, but both Yacht Devices and Garmin per @ttmott's point seem to regard "devices" as objects that have a physical N2K presence, each of which can generate multiple PGNs. Here's my YD "device" list:

This begs the question as to what to call an object connected to a "device" would be called. Sensor makes sense to me.

 

[Skybolt]

Makes sense, but both Yacht Devices and Garmin per @ttmott's point seem to regard "devices" as objects that have a physical N2K presence, each of which can generate multiple PGNs. Here's my YD "device" list:
View attachment 153628This begs the question as to what to call an object connected to a "device" would be called. Sensor makes sense to me.

Right, physical devices like the Fusion radio have many PGN's associated to them. And the AP also take on a few PGN's.

But to your point of the rudder, there is a PGN that supports the rudder specifically and the AP populates it. I guess there isn't much difference in the end. Except the AP device supports the rudder PGN. So an actual N2K device that is in the device list must have it own way of using the ISO PGN(s), like 060928 ISO Address Claim, for supported devices and populate those PGN's.

Point taken.

 

[ttmott]

I didn't mean rudder was a device, just that the PGN shows up in the N2K data stream:
View attachment 153618
I can then see the value in the CAN View Navigation view:
View attachment 153619
When I turn on the data stream, line 19 bounces between two values which must be the VV and Garmin-connected sensors. I assume the rudder# refers to the instance and if I can change that, I should see a value on line 20. @rlynch03's fix will I think cause the VV to ignore its own sensor and not send it to the N2K bus. I will try that as well and see what happens.

"Turn on data stream" - how do you do that?

 

[Skybolt]

"Turn on data stream" - how do you do that?

I think Al was referring to the YD can logging utility. But on the Garmin chart plotter - if you go into settings - communication - nmea 2000 communications you can see the PGN's being used and their values. Going from memory, but that will get you close if not there.

That should get you the PGN list and selecting a pgn will display it's data and what it's from etc.

 

[alnav]

"Turn on data stream" - how do you do that?

Orlando is correct, the YD N2K Gateway can generate a CAN log that can be saved to a PC that includes all the data passing through the Gateway. I have been running the YD CAN View software from home and generating the screen shots in earlier posts. When in "play" the values in the log file are returned at the same speed as real time. As can be seen from the screen shots, it's a bit clunky. The Gateway generates a set of web pages to control logging and other functions, interfaces for integration with apps like Navionics, includes a set of gauges and apparently can now control their new autopilot. The function I have found most useful is the voyage log which records a limited set of parameters like position, course, speed and some engine data that reads to a .csv file.

 

[Irie308]

Timely conversation. Non auto pilot related but I could use some advice from the nmea experts. I’m having a hard time with new nmea sensors i've recently installed. I added two nmea pressure sensors to my transmissions. There seems to be a conflict even though I've given them different instances. I see both devices in the device list of the nmea setup page of the garmins. I also see "data" on the 127493 PGN in the nmea diagnostic page. The problem is when i try add the data to the gauges page of the garmin I have to unplug 1 of the sensors. So I unplug the port sensor and add the starboard. I then unplug the starboard and add port. Once i've added both I can plug them both back in and the data displays for each one. So the issue only presents itself if I try to add the data to a gauge with both units plugged in at the same time. Otherwise it works fine. Any idea what I should be looking at. Its a royal pain to have to unplug each unit every time I want to add it to a screen.

 

[Skybolt]

Timely conversation. Non auto pilot related but I could use some advice from the nmea experts. I’m having a hard time with new nmea sensors i've recently installed. I added two nmea pressure sensors to my transmissions. There seems to be a conflict even though I've given them different instances. I see both devices in the device list of the nmea setup page of the garmins. I also see "data" on the 127493 PGN in the nmea diagnostic page. The problem is when i try add the data to the gauges page of the garmin I have to unplug 1 of the sensors. So I unplug the port sensor and add the starboard. I then unplug the starboard and add port. Once i've added both I can plug them both back in and the data displays for each one. So the issue only presents itself if I try to add the data to a gauge with both units plugged in at the same time. Otherwise it works fine. Any idea what I should be looking at. Its a royal pain to have to unplug each unit every time I want to add it to a screen.

What sensors are you using for the trans pressure? The only thing I can think of is the instance numbering does not match your engine instances. Also keep in mind, that there is a device instance and also a system instance. You only want to change the device instance and leave the system instance at 0 or what ever the rest of your devices are set too.

I am using AOS pressure sensors for my Racor filters and they happen to use both instance numbers.

I will post a pic of how to view the PGN's on the Garmin MFD's when I can this weekend.

 

[Irie308]

What sensors are you using for the trans pressure? The only thing I can think of is the instance numbering does not match your engine instances. Also keep in mind, that there is a device instance and also a system instance. You only want to change the device instance and leave the system instance at 0 or what ever the rest of your devices are set too.

I am using AOS pressure sensors for my Racor filters and they happen to use both instance numbers.

I will post a pic of how to view the PGN's on the Garmin MFD's when I can this weekend.

I'm using the AOS transmission pressure and temp sensors combo unit. I actually have several of their devices. I don't understand the engine instance. I know where to view the Garmin pgn's but not clear on how the engine instances work within Garmin. I gave each device an instance. I also gave the input an instance. For example (Device instance =19, pressure instance = 20, temp instance = 21). The engine instances on the Garmin are numbered 1-6 for example. Where can I read up on how the engine instances work. Have never been clear on how this concept works on the Garmin's.

 

[Skybolt]

I'm using the AOS transmission pressure and temp sensors combo unit. I actually have several of their devices. I don't understand the engine instance. I know where to view the Garmin pgn's but not clear on how the engine instances work within Garmin. I gave each device an instance. I also gave the input an instance. For example (Device instance =19, pressure instance = 20, temp instance = 21). The engine instances on the Garmin are numbered 1-6 for example. Where can I read up on how the engine instances work. Have never been clear on how this concept works on the Garmin's.

Most engine instances are 0 = Port and 1 = STB. Garmin when selecting engine parameters only asks for the engine number. So the instance needs to match 0 or 1. I also have my generator on N2K so that engine instance is 2, or engine 3. That is an unwritten standard for engines and instancing.

This is the one thing I don't like about Garmin and you can't set the instance number on things. They assume 0 as the first device and 1 as the second. Other things will just display the name when selecting so it's not that critical, but with engines it is. The transmission instances must follow the engine instances so things "Just work".

Not really sure where you can read up on this. There are many publications on this subject discussing instance numbers and how/why they should use certain schema. But every company seems to put their own twist on things further complicating the implementation. The one thing they all seem to settle on is what I described above for engines.

On a side note with instances, instances also use types when setting the number. For example, temperature that is not associated with an engine like cabin, or outside or sea water. Even though those are all temperatures and you would select temperature on the MFD, you will also have to select what type of temperature. So if there were only one of each device mentioned, they would all be instance 0. Because there would only be one cabin temp, one outside temp and only one sea water temp. Adding a second temp device of any of those types and you would use the instance of 1 and so on.

Now if you add a temp device and keep incrementing the instance number regardless of type, you can get away with that, but that is not how the system was designed to work. Think of how complicated a cruise ship can get, that is why there are system instance numbers as well.

 

[Skybolt]

... I will post a pic of how to view the PGN's on the Garmin MFD's when I can this weekend.

Bad pic, but you get the idea. Options-Settings-Communications-NMEA 2000 Diag

If you hit PGN Info you see exactly what it is and what device it's from. This is the 65030 - generator quantities for AC. A PGN that Garmin supposedly supports but doesn't work and refuses to fix.

 

[Irie308]

Thanks, I was able to fix the issue it was all due to the device instances.

 

[Irie308]

Couple questions for the Garmin guru’s. Picked up a TD 50 to try out down below in the cabin. Can’t seem to get my lumitec poco to show up in the “one helm” devices. The unit is networked but no luck. Garmin is stumped. Anyone try out one of these units? Second question, I’m out of network ports between the back of the units and my GMS10 switch. Couldn’t I just use a standand non Garmin switch to expand my network?

 

[Skybolt]

Couple questions for the Garmin guru’s. Picked up a TD 50 to try out down below in the cabin. Can’t seem to get my lumitec poco to show up in the “one helm” devices. The unit is networked but no luck. Garmin is stumped. Anyone try out one of these units? Second question, I’m out of network ports between the back of the units and my GMS10 switch. Couldn’t I just use a standand non Garmin switch to expand my network?

So the TD-50 is the newer Garmin Marine Network protocol and Hardware called BlueNet. You need to also buy the Gateway to add it to the GMN network for the One Helm screens to come a live.

The Poco unit is HTML 5 transport and why this isn't working. I did set a Poco up on my friends boat with a Simrad and it works great.

This one at a minimum:
BlueNet Gateway https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770331/pn/010-02613-00

And possibly this as well
BlueNet expander https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770287/pn/010-02612-00

I believe you also need the proprietary cables. So to answer your question, no you need at least the gateway to do this. Then you also need to cable over to the GMS10 switch.

Link to cables https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770331/pn/010-02613-00#accessories

This is why I haven't picked up a TD-50 just yet. It will work on just N2K for some things.

EDIT: Do you already have the Poco unit working on the rest of the system and it just won't display on the TD-50?

 

[Irie308]

So the TD-50 is the newer Garmin Marine Network protocol and Hardware called BlueNet. You need to also buy the Gateway to add it to the GMN network for the One Helm screens to come a live.

The Poco unit is HTML 5 transport and why this isn't working. I did set a Poco up on my friends boat with a Simrad and it works great.

This one at a minimum:
BlueNet Gateway https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770331/pn/010-02613-00

And possibly this as well
BlueNet expander https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770287/pn/010-02612-00

I believe you also need the proprietary cables. So to answer your question, no you need at least the gateway to do this. Then you also need to cable over to the GMS10 switch.

Link to cables https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/770331/pn/010-02613-00#accessories

This is why I haven't picked up a TD-50 just yet. It will work on just N2K for some things.

EDIT: Do you already have the Poco unit working on the rest of the system and it just won't display on the TD-50?

Interesting. Actually my td 50 unit doesn’t have that blue port on the back as on the unit on their site. It’s just the typical Garmin 9 pin network port. I’m using a Garmin 9 pin to Ethernet cable and a nmea cable. It sees everything on the Garmin and nmea networks. Poco is exiting and the other units sees it in one helm.

 

[ttmott]

Interesting. Actually my td 50 unit doesn’t have that blue port on the back as on the unit on their site. It’s just the typical Garmin 9 pin network port. I’m using a Garmin 9 pin to Ethernet cable and a nmea cable. It sees everything on the Garmin and nmea networks. Poco is exiting and the other units sees it in one helm.

You should be good to view anything on the GM network and anything shared between the MFD's as well as most anything on the NMEA 2000 network except, of course, propriety data like some of the Maretron data.
Regarding the GMI10 - from what I understand a couple of the wires in the network cabling are used for Garmin unique purposes like turning devices on and off and who know what else. So, my guess is a standard network router/switch probably won't function for all the Garmin device needs.

 

[ttmott]

BTW - if anyone needs some GMN cables I have several still in the bags.

 

[Skybolt]

Interesting. Actually my td 50 unit doesn’t have that blue port on the back as on the unit on their site. It’s just the typical Garmin 9 pin network port. I’m using a Garmin 9 pin to Ethernet cable and a nmea cable. It sees everything on the Garmin and nmea networks. Poco is exiting and the other units sees it in one helm.

Interesting, didn't know the TD-50 came with the standard GMN plug. But if the Poco shows up on the regular MFD's and not the TD-50, then there is your answer. Garmin has some work to do.

You may want to return the TD-50 from where you bought it and buy another one from a different place. I am thinking you may have gotten an early hardware rev and possibly that is the issue.

 

[Skybolt]

@Irie308 Dean here's a link for the Garmin BlueNet info.

Technical Reference for Garmin BlueNet Network Technology Installation Instructions - Garmin BlueNet Technology Overview

www8.garmin.com