Question for the Garmin Autopilot Boys?

[Skybolt]

So my RM heading sensor STB and will not calibrate the compass so now the boat follows straight, but is sideways. That troughs off the info like XTE ect.

I believe it's time to upgrade to a new AP.

Question on one thing though, can the new Garmin units "follow track"s and also follow "auto guidance"? Haven't read a thing on this, so I am taking the easy way out on this one.

 

[Irie308]

So my RM heading sensor STB and will not calibrate the compass so now the boat follows straight, but is sideways. That troughs off the info like XTE ect.

I believe it's time to upgrade to a new AP.

Question on one thing though, can the new Garmin units "follow track"s and also follow "auto guidance"? Haven't read a thing on this, so I am taking the easy way out on this one.

Someone I know recently had this issue. He said that his compass was set to true instead of magnetic. Not sure how accurate this is but worth a check. As for following a track i generally just do auto guidance as its quicker. I then make sure it lines up with one of my previous tracks as the auto guidance is sketchy quite often. I do think if you save your track as a route it would then follow the route. Too much work again as my tracks are one big loop. Funny i found your post as i was about to post a question of my own regarding the autopilot.

 

[BlueYonder]

Don't save a track as a route. It will add a buttload of waypoints. Just save the track and give it a a name. You can then delete the active track so you don't have a screen covered with dotted lines. You can call up your saved track and then follow it with your autopilot just like a route. Saved tracks are nice to use when you go through a challenging area. Once you have made it through the first time, saving the track will allow you to duplicate your path.

Autoguidance on the newer units that are compatible with the Garmin Navionics + charts is far better as it will now attempt to keep you within channels (such as the ICW)

 

[alnav]

Orlando, yes, Garmins will follow tracks (both recent and saved), tracks turned into routes (as @BlueYonder says, this will likely create a bunch of new waypoints) and Auto Guidance. Garmin calls the Auto Guidance recommendation a "Path" (not sure if Raytheon does this) and paths can be saved and edited (and followed). A path doesn't have waypoints but does have a relationship with chart objects in the background. This method pretty much obviates the need for waypoint-based routes and I've been converting my routes to paths over time.
If you have Garmin Active Captain, you can get a feel for how Routes, Paths and Tracks work as the functionality is pretty much the same between GAC and the plotters. I think you probably need to own an auto guidance chart to see all the functionality however.

 

[Skybolt]

Thanks all. I have the newer chart plotters just an older RM AP. I was playing around with Auto Guidance and thought it would follow that but nothing. Same with saved tracks. But when the compass gave out so did I. I made sure everything was magnetic and then switched heading sensors. But that's not a long term fix. A new AP is the right thing to do.

When connecting the new Garmin AP up is it all N2K or does the heading sensor need proprietary wiring? Where my current RM HS is, is a major PITA to rewire. But if N2K, there is already a cable in there. Either way I don't really have a choice. I never use the wheel unless in a channel.

Thanks again.

 

[ttmott]

For the Garmin Reactor 40 with Smartpump

• Helm Autopilot Display GHC20 - NMEA 2000
• CCU Reactor 40 - NMEA 2000 and Proprietary Data Bus from SmartPump with 4 conductor standard 16 gauge cable to Shadow Drive and AP Alarm
• Smart Pump Reactor 40 - Proprietary Data Bus to CCU, Garmin Rudder Position connector, and Power wiring
• Rudder Position GRF10 (optional) - included cable and connector to interface with Smart Pump
• Shadow Drive (optional) - two conductors routed to CCU harness.
• AP Alarm (optional) - two conductors routed to CCU harness.

The Chartplotter course data is conveyed to the autopilot via NMEA 2000

 

[Skybolt]

For the Garmin Reactor 40 with Smartpump

• Helm Autopilot Display GHC20 - NMEA 2000
• CCU Reactor 40 - NMEA 2000 and Proprietary Data Bus from SmartPump with 4 conductor standard 16 gauge cable to Shadow Drive and AP Alarm
• Smart Pump Reactor 40 - Proprietary Data Bus to CCU, Garmin Rudder Position connector, and Power wiring
• Rudder Position GRF10 (optional) - included cable and connector to interface with Smart Pump
• Shadow Drive (optional) - two conductors routed to CCU harness.
• AP Alarm (optional) - two conductors routed to CCU harness.

The Chartplotter course data is conveyed to the autopilot via NMEA 2000

I have a question regarding the connection of the rudder position GRF10 and where does it connect, when the smart pump isn't used? It looks like it only connects via NMEA2000 to anywhere in the system. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated connection for it to plug into. Is that right, or did I miss something?

 

[ttmott]

I have a question regarding the connection of the rudder position GRF10 and where does it connect, when the smart pump isn't used? It looks like it only connects via NMEA2000 to anywhere in the system. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated connection for it to plug into. Is that right, or did I miss something?

The only interface I know for that rudder sensor is at the Smart Pump, GHP12, or GHP20. It's the orange 12 pin connector.
They are not NMEA compatible. They are expensive - I've broken two of them.

 

[alnav]

I have a question regarding the connection of the rudder position GRF10 and where does it connect, when the smart pump isn't used? It looks like it only connects via NMEA2000 to anywhere in the system. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated connection for it to plug into. Is that right, or did I miss something?

Unlike the older Raymarine autopilot systems (don't know about newer ones), I'm not sure the Garmin even needs a rudder angle to operate. I think that as long as it knows which way to turn the rudder and where the stops are from setup, it functions by assessing what happens to heading as it makes adjustments. I looked back at the installation instructions from my older system and the rudder angle sensor is not addressed at all.
I installed a VesselView when I put in the Garmins and that sends the OEM Smartcraft rudder signal to NMEA 2000. I found that in Garmin settings; it was highlighted as a dual input and wanted me to choose between the two. I switched back and forth while underway at one point and it didn't seem to make any difference one way or the other.

 

[ttmott]

Unlike the older Raymarine autopilot systems (don't know about newer ones), I'm not sure the Garmin even needs a rudder angle to operate. I think that as long as it knows which way to turn the rudder and where the stops are from setup, it functions by assessing what happens to heading as it makes adjustments. I looked back at the installation instructions from my older system and the rudder angle sensor is not addressed at all.
I installed a VesselView when I put in the Garmins and that sends the OEM Smartcraft rudder signal to NMEA 2000. I found that in Garmin settings; it was highlighted as a dual input and wanted me to choose between the two. I switched back and forth while underway at one point and it didn't seem to make any difference one way or the other.

Hey Al,
I have the original Smartcraft as well as the Garmin rudder indicators installed. Originally the boat had a rudder position sensor for the Smartcraft network and one for the Raymarine autopilot (two of them). Now that the boat has been converted to Garmin; the Raymarine steering sensor is removed but the Smartcraft one is still installed and functional. Either are available on the NMEA 2000 network in my case. However neither are directly compatible with NMEA 2000.

For a Cummins powered boat the Smartcraft steering sensor is connected to the starboard engine's extension harness (the medusa harness). The electrical signal which is a biased potentiometer with negative and positive supply from the System Integration Module (SIM) is converted to a digital signal by the SIM and integrated on the Smartcraft network. All of the applicable Smartcraft devices can use and display the rudder position (Diesel View, Vessel View, etc). In my case with a Vessel View 7 that data is also provided on the NMEA 2000 network and useable by all NMEA 2000 compatible devices as VV7 has a NMEA 2000 port.

The Garmin rudder position sensor can only connect to a Garmin Autopilot system. Garmin uses a color code for connectors and in the case of the rudder position sensor it is Orange. Only the orange rudder sensor cable connector can connect to the orange connector on the autopilot controller. Now since Garmin's autopilot system must reside on a NMEA 2000 network that rudder information is available to all NMEA 2000 devices.

Now on the Chart Plotters / MFD's (Garmin) in the preferred device selection menu both rudder devices are shown and available to select; same on the Vessel View 7. I have the Garmin rudder indicator selected.

What I don't know and will find out is if the Smartcraft rudder position sensor is selected, will the Garmin Autopilot use that data even though a Garmin rudder position sensor is directly connected to the controller.

Rudder position is optional for the Garmin autopilot system. However, when rudder position information is available to the autopilot, the system can more precisely/smoothly set and adjust heading, XTE, and changes at waypoints. The rudder slew rate and turn positioning is much more precise. With the rudder position data the system learns the boat's reaction to rudder changes and can make heading changes more "intelligently".

 

[alnav]

I have a question regarding the connection of the rudder position GRF10 and where does it connect, when the smart pump isn't used? It looks like it only connects via NMEA2000 to anywhere in the system. There doesn't seem to be a dedicated connection for it to plug into. Is that right, or did I miss something?

Orlando, having looked a bit, it looks like the rudder sensor needs to be connected to the autopilot ECU, to the orange connector on that unit as Tom points out.
I also see that the ECU will accept rudder input from some legacy sensors such as Raymarine. The wiring specs for such a use are here:

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/Reactor_40_Mechanical_Wiring_Reference_EN-US.pdf

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, having looked a bit, it looks like the rudder sensor needs to be connected to the autopilot ECU, to the orange connector on that unit as Tom points out.
I also see that the ECU will accept rudder input from some legacy sensors such as Raymarine. The wiring specs for such a use are here:

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/Reactor_40_Mechanical_Wiring_Reference_EN-US.pdf

Thanks Al, I was reading that last night after I posted my question. You need to order an additional cable to be able to add a 3rd party rudder sender to the system. I guess it's best to use their sender.

EDIT: Removed the N2K question. Didn't read Tom's post before I asked.

 

[ttmott]

Orlando, having looked a bit, it looks like the rudder sensor needs to be connected to the autopilot ECU, to the orange connector on that unit as Tom points out.
I also see that the ECU will accept rudder input from some legacy sensors such as Raymarine. The wiring specs for such a use are here:

http://[URL]https://static.garmin.com/pumac/Reactor_40_Mechanical_Wiring_Reference_EN-US.pdf

[/URL]

Wow, that's great info! I wonder what pins in the orange garmin 12 pin connector are used.

 

[Irie308]

Thanks Al, I was reading that last night after I posted my question. You need to order an additional cable to be able to add a 3rd party rudder sender to the system. I guess it's best to use their sender.

Does their sender show up on the N2K network, the install guide only shows it as receiving that PGN and not transmitting it.

This is what I did when I installed my autopilot. I'm still using my raymarine rudder indicator and the Garmin AP package I order came with the cable. Probably the easiest part of the install.

 

[Skybolt]

Wow, that's great info! I wonder what pins in the orange garmin 12 pin connector are used.

They have this cable for the integration.

Garmin Rudder Feedback Cable

GARMIN RUDDER FEEDBACK CABLE...

www.hodgesmarine.com

They also have the full extension cable that has those wires as well as the alarm and shadow drive as well.

EDIT:

 

[ttmott]

They have this cable for the integration.

http://[URL][URL][URL]https://www.h...GUdGntuiUnNgNKPRnmH0sLGHWoG3oLdhoCTKMQAvD_BwE

[/URL][/URL][/URL]

They also have the full extension cable that has those wires as well as the alarm and shadow drive as well.

So, I didn't need to buy (two, broke the first one) of the Garmin rudder sensors after all.......
I could have disconnected the Smartcraft sensor from the engine harness and connected it to the Garmin autopilot and still have the information available to everything... Seamless.
Learn something new every day; I wish I knew that in 2019.

 

[Skybolt]

This is what I did when I installed my autopilot. I'm still using my raymarine rudder indicator and the Garmin AP package I order came with the cable. Probably the easiest part of the install.

That is good to know. My issue now is I need to find room for the GHC 50 screen instead of the GHC 20 size. And I just had all new dash panels made this spring ...

 

[Skybolt]

So, I didn't need to buy (two) of the Garmin rudder sensors after all.......
I could have disconnected the Smartcraft sensor from the engine harness and connected it to the Garmin autopilot and still have the information available to everything... Seamless.
Learn something new every day; I wish I knew that in 2019.

Yeah, their rudder senders are now $270 each. I don't see the point of having two senders either. The ability to do this just made this upgrade a whole lot easier.

This is what makes this board so awesome, their is usually someone else that had tried what you are a bout to do. Knowledge is everything.

 

[Skybolt]

Now that Garmin has discontinued the GHC-20 in light of the GHC-50 larger display of the same screens, I am considering staying with RM and going with an EVO unit. The biggest knife in the back is I just had my dash re-done and the planned for the GHC-20. Did not know last spring Garmin was coming out with the GHC-50 and retiring the GHC-20. The GHC-50 is a larger 5" display opposed to the 4" of the GHC-20.

The cost of the Garmin AP is now over $2500 all in if I keep the same pump, if I keep the RM rudder sensor it goes down to $2250. The new EVO upgrade is only $1550, but I do not have to cut my new dash up to squeeze in a different sized head unit.

My current RM SPx pilot is back in running order as I found a used compass and replaced it. So my quandary is to upgrade or not?

I am wanting to be able to follow a Garmin auto guidance route. So I don't know if the Evo unit will do this, my current SPx will not. It does work fine with routes and goto's, but not auto guidance.

The route to feature works pretty well, but auto guidance seems to be a lot easier. Curious if anyone has worked with both and has any opinions on using the AG and if it's worth the upgrade cost?

 

[Irie308]

I came from an older Raymarine autopilot that I used mostly in head holding mode. So not familiar with their newer stuff. I have to say that I absolutely love my new Garmin AP. I do have the full Garmin suite so I'm fully immersed. I rarely use my steering wheel believe it or not. I do use the auto guidance a lot but its not the end all as it does do some wonky stuff sometime. I rarely trust it unless its running on top of one of my previous tracks. You really have to review it prior to engaging the AP. I will say that I am a bit underwhelmed by the GHC 50. Its a beautiful screen but it really doesn't do much more than I can do with my Garmin screens and it only does the AP. Would be nice if it could display other features like cameras, depth etc. I do find if you check with vendors around the time of the FLBS you can get some good deals. I bought my AP there last fall and it was under 2k.