Personal Protection while on the hook

JV II said:
I like two points I read in this thread.
One: The house has dangerous things that can hurt kids. Poison, drugs, matches, knives, power tools, among other things. You can hide the dangerous stuff from the kids and try to never expose them to dangerous "things" or you can educate your kids about these things, because at some point they will be exposed to them. Which is better?
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IMO, both. There're tons of cases when an educated adult got hurt while using the tools he's trained to use safely. So, assuming that you educate your kids the chance for them to get hurt is much grater than for adult. People just make mistakes and it's part of the nature. This is why limiting number of dengerous items and hiding those that you have will only minimize the risk of anyone to get hurt.

JV II said:
Two: My boat never sank or even took on any water. I don't know a single person who had a boat that sank. I have not ever witnessed a sinking. But, I have 3 bilge pumps on my boat. Should I get rid of them?
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Sorry JV,
But I don't see the logical parallel. You also never herd 3-5 or whatever bildge pumps hurting anyone either, but rather save the vessel and lives. They're also well hidden, so no kid can get too close to them to play with the blades which are also hidden.
 
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With apologies to JV, I believe he was trying to say that it's better to have a bilge pump and not need it than to need a bilge pump and not have it. Substitute "firearm" for "bilge pump" and the parallels he was illustrating should be obvious.
 
LTD.330 said:
With apologies to JV, I believe he was trying to say that it's better to have a bilge pump and not need it than to need a bilge pump and not have it. Substitute "firearm" for "bilge pump" and the parallels he was illustrating should be obvious.
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I would agree in most of the cases, but the part of the debate here is that "firearms" might be the excetpion to this rule. I don't own any and think about it when come across threads like this one. So, just thinking loud and sort of what Presentation said,

Scenario 1 (you have don't have a gun): someone comes aboard and they have larger and more dengerous weapon than you might have, so your best decision is ....Ok, please take what you want and leave with hope that it'll end this way.

Scenario 2 (you have a gun, it's not loaded): as Presenation mentioned, you're out of luck b/c there's no time to assemble everything while you're being "attacked", So, unless admiral or other crew member gets it all ready and either draws it or finds a way to pass it to you, it's useless in the way.

Scenario 3 (you have a loaded gun): You draw the gun hoping the attacker gets scared and rushes out of your sight. He might have a gun and now if you don't shoot you're dead. So, it's very complicated situation.

Thus, having thought about these scenarios I'm not sure I rather have the firearm and not use it vs. not having it at all. BTW, I'm only talking about cruising in US coastal/local waters.
 
Alex F said:
I would agree in most of the cases, but the part of the debate here is that "firearms" might be the excetpion to this rule. I don't own any and think about it when come across threads like this one. So, just thinking loud and sort of what Presentation said,

Scenario 1 (you have don't have a gun): someone comes aboard and they have larger and more dengerous weapon than you might have, so your best decision is ....Ok, please take what you want and leave with hope that it'll end this way.

Scenario 2 (you have a gun, it's not loaded): as Presenation mentioned, you're out of luck b/c there's no time to assemble everything while you're being "attacked", So, unless admiral or other crew member gets it all ready and either draws it or finds a way to pass it to you, it's useless in the way.

Scenario 3 (you have a loaded gun): You draw the gun hoping the attacker gets scared and rushes out of your sight. He might have a gun and now if you don't shoot you're dead. So, it's very complicated situation.

Thus, having thought about these scenarios I'm not sure I rather have the firearm and not use it vs. not having it at all. BTW, I'm only talking about cruising in US coastal/local waters.
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An unloaded gun is a paper-weight. Best not even own one at that point. An unloaded gun shows you are not prepared.

And most importantly, don't ever own a gun, or draw it unless you can, and plan on using it. Period. Guns are not meant to "scare" someone off by the sight of them. If someone is braizen enough to enter my property with a gun, that shows they have intent to harm me. They will get no second chance. You never know when it will come down to you or him. So be prepared and make sure that Number 1 (you) are the one that makes it out alive.

If I do not see a gun in someones hand that is on my property/boat, then I will ask them their intentions, and at the very least if that goes bad, fire a warning shot. If they are armed and I can see that, they will not get a chance.
 
Does anyone know if there is a federal law that preempts state carry laws on navigable waters? I have a PA carry permit and dock in PA, but I cross the Delaware River into NJ waters regularly, and there is effectively no such thing as a carry permit in NJ.
 
Redhook98 said:
An unloaded gun is a paper-weight. Best not even own one at that point. An unloaded gun shows you are not prepared.

And most importantly, don't ever own a gun, or draw it unless you can, and plan on using it. Period. Guns are not meant to "scare" someone off by the sight of them. If someone is braizen enough to enter my property with a gun, that shows they have intent to harm me. They will get no second chance. You never know when it will come down to you or him. So be prepared and make sure that Number 1 (you) are the one that makes it out alive.

If I do not see a gun in someones hand that is on my property/boat, then I will ask them their intentions, and at the very least if that goes bad, fire a warning shot. If they are armed and I can see that, they will not get a chance.
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I totally agree, but it still doesn't answer the puzzling question is it better to have the firearm (especially always loaded one) and not use it vs. not having it at all?

I'd like to mention one important factor that ever since I started my boating life I've noticed that people on water are much friendlier and the confrontations are very rare, which provides much more of a comfort level for enjoying the time on water.
 
Alex, I commend you for keeping such an open mind. Owning a gun is a very personal decision and it is not for everyone. Owning a gun for self-defense is an even bigger decision. Now, you have a ton more responsibilities and have to ask yourself in a very honest manor if you are able and willing to take a human life. Again, this isn't for everyone.

In your above scenarios, having a firearm gives you a choice in the outcome. Without it, you are completely at the mercy of the thug. Does he take your stuff and leave? Or does he commit unspeakable acts while you watch helpless?

Having a gun certainly carries a lot of risks and responsibilities and those risks need to be compared with the risks you face without a firearm. Again, it's a personal decision.
 
Redhook98 said:
An unloaded gun is a paper-weight. Best not even own one at that point. An unloaded gun shows you are not prepared.

And most importantly, don't ever own a gun, or draw it unless you can, and plan on using it. Period. Guns are not meant to "scare" someone off by the sight of them. If someone is braizen enough to enter my property with a gun, that shows they have intent to harm me. They will get no second chance. You never know when it will come down to you or him. So be prepared and make sure that Number 1 (you) are the one that makes it out alive.

If I do not see a gun in someones hand that is on my property/boat, then I will ask them their intentions, and at the very least if that goes bad, fire a warning shot. If they are armed and I can see that, they will not get a chance.
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Redhook, I agree with a lot of what you say here with exception of firing a warning shot.

Don't ever fire a warning shot.

By firing a warning shot the prosecutor at your trial will say that even the defendant knew he wasn't in a deadly force encouter but was using deadly force anyway and escalated the situation. The laws vary by state, but in Ohio if you escalate a deadly force situation, you can no longer claim self defense.

Or the prosecutor will say that your warning shot was a miss.

It's also a waste of precious ammo that may be needed later.
 
Redhook98 said:
If I do not see a gun in someones hand that is on my property/boat, then I will ask them their intentions, and at the very least if that goes bad, fire a warning shot. If they are armed and I can see that, they will not get a chance.
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That will get you arrested in Virginia... handcuffs... hauled off in a car... night in the pokey... class 1 misdemeanor at a minimum (up to 12 months in jail) and could be a felony for brandishing if the criminal says he felt threatened by you showing your gun. Even if the criminal has repeatedly come on your property at all hours of the night peeking in your windows.

Isn't it great how the previous governor and state house tightened up the gun laws here?! Our laws are now about as bad as New Jersey as you have to show you retreated in your own house and were cornered before you either shot or brandished your firearm...
 
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thirtydaZe said:
or get the hell away from that particular situation. ...
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Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner.

Rule 0 of a gun fight: Don't be there.

Corollary to Rule 0 is don't go to stupid places, with stupid people, and do stupid things.
 
Four Suns said:
That will get you arrested in Virginia... handcuffs... hauled off in a car... night in the pokey... class 1 misdemeanor at a minimum (up to 12 months in jail) and could be a felony for brandishing if the criminal says he felt threatened by you showing your gun. Even if the criminal has repeatedly come on your property at all hours of the night peeking in your windows.

Isn't it great how the previous governor and state house tightened up the gun laws here?! Our laws are now about as bad as New Jersey as you have to show you retreated in your own house and were cornered before you either shot or brandished your firearm...
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Good point. Lesson? Always have a throw-down handy... ;-)m Just kidding..... Or am I?
 
This is how the 'Castle Doctrine works in FL.

The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.

Will I use my gun, you bet. But I will also make sure I am well within my rights to do so.
 
KDawg,

First of all congratulations on your new purchase. Going from a "day-tripper" to an "on-the-hooker" (keep your mind out of the gutter - men) just doubled the memories you and your family will take away from boating.

I believe your original question was around the relative safety of "your" general boating area, as it relates to spending the night on the hook or in a marina. IMO this question can be broken up into two categories... (1) Preventable Issues and (2) Unforeseen Issues.

As for the preventable issues, I could not add anything to Presentations excellent post, as this is exactly how I keep my family safe. (Be aware of your surroundings and discretion is the better part of valor.)

As for the unforeseen issues, I have not experienced any, nor have I heard of anyone who has had an issue in "our" general boating area. (not to say that they don't exist)

I boat out of Fairlee Creek and while I haven't been on the Bay long, I have never had an issue out here. I've had the pleasure of spending the weekend on the hook at Still Pond with other member here on CSR, as well as a few other spots in the NE River. When we ventured to other marinas with plans to overnight, one thing you could look for is marinas that have security. When we dock in Baltimore and other areas, there is NO public access to the docks unless you are a boat owner. Is this full proof?...probably not... but at least your limiting your exposure to the unforeseen issues.

IMO, overall I think the area your boating in is a safe area with tons of very nice people. If you don't have a loaded gun next to your bed at home than you probably should not have one on your boat. LTD330 had a nice summary of the "choice" you have, and the importance of the "responsibility" you assume.


KDawg said:
We recently purchased a 240 Sundancer and plan on spending nights on the hook and in marinas. We will mostly be around the Kent Island area but could end up anywhere from Chesapeake Beach up to the Sassafrass.
Would like to know if you guys up in this area carry personal protection (handgun) while spending the night on your boat and if anyone has had any threatening situations.
Thanks
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trit21 said:
This is how the 'Castle Doctrine works in FL.
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As you state, the "Castle Doctrine" is state dependent. Gun rights are being taken away state-by-state right now...

If you live in Virginia, the Castle Doctrine law was defeated a few months ago.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=5513

Someone can kick your door down and if you point a gun at them and DO NOT shoot, they can call 911 and have you arrested... How nice...
 
These gun topics are interesting. I'm surprised how many of you will openly discuss on a message board what you carry or keep aboard. You have names of boats with pictures and locations. I'm sure I could find any one of you if I wanted to. To openly advertise isn't always a deterent. Sometimes, criminals actual rob people FOR THIER GUNS. Where do you think all these thugs get them from?

I wouldn't discuss this in a public forum any more than I would tell someone my banking account number. I think "we" tend to think of this as our little SR community of happy friendly boaters but there are alot of bad people out there, on the internet and this site is just as open as anything. If someone wanted something on your boat, now they might just be prepared for what you got. Just sayin . . .

Please, nobody quote this message as I may decide to delete it at some point.
 
KDawg,

Back to your original question- No I have never had the slightest problem on the hook or at a marina in the middle bay area. I would not ever think I would either. Never once thought about protection.

I have not done Baltimore yet and I might worry about safety here a bit.

There are usually many other boaters around that watch over things.

I am not against guns, and I will not question others decisions on them. I just see no need for them on a boat in our area.

Relax a bit and enjoy.
 
Four Suns said:
As you state, the "Castle Doctrine" is state dependent. Gun rights are being taken away state-by-state right now...

If you live in Virginia, the Castle Doctrine law was defeated a few months ago.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=5513

Someone can kick your door down and if you point a gun at them and DO NOT shoot, they can call 911 and have you arrested... How nice...
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And this is the very reason that there are over 250,000 concealed weapon permits currently awaiting approval in the state of FL. Good old Obama gets elected and everyone freaked out figuring the right to bear arms would be revoked. Lots of people filed with the thought of 'I am grandfathered in'...maybe maybe not but that is the thought.
 
lawndoctor said:
Does anyone know if there is a federal law that preempts state carry laws on navigable waters? I have a PA carry permit and dock in PA, but I cross the Delaware River into NJ waters regularly, and there is effectively no such thing as a carry permit in NJ.
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Your PA carry permit is no good in MD and NJ on land or on water. you can check this out: http://www.nraila.org/recmap/usrecmap.aspx

You might be able to bring a gun locked in a case with the ammunition in a separate box with you on the boat, but that is not that useful:smt021
 
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