Official Cummins QSC-500 Thread

[fwebster]

Alex,

I don’t know what a “belt desing” issue is? I only know of a problem with the QSC engines stretching or breaking accessory drive belts and was addressing Hampton’s situation since I know his circumstances, i.e. how he uses his boat, temperatures where he is, the fact the he could be 100 miles off-shore at anytime, and is in a busy channel any day he goes out. I don’t know about anybody else’s situation.

My every other year comment is based on the fact that I prefer to solve problems on my schedule while they are maintenance issues, before they become repairs. I don’t like fixing boat unless they are ties up in their slip. So, I wouldn’t try to save $90 on belts by stretching their useful life.



Islandhopper,

I think I probably caused the confusion here. Hampton and I have known each other for several years, we are in the same location, we do business with the same local dealer and both know their personnel on a first name basis. As it turns out, the parts guy at the dealership is also named John and I realize now how confusing that could be to someone not familiar with all the players. Sorry for any confusion I caused …………..



John,

PM me if you want the contact info for the Cummins dealer in Tennessee............

 

[islandhopper00]

Thanks Frank, belive it or not it's rarely ever my intention to make someone mad. I'm the type person who never met a stranger, and sometimes I over step my boundaries by trying to help to much.

 

[Morgan Jane]

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/morganjaneII/Intercooler.jpg

After cooler, remove, clean, assemble and testing. I strongly suggest that you guys with QSC's with 500 or more hours not let your aftercoolers maintenance go. There are two main reasons and they are for the most part unrelated.

The first reason is that whether you are in salt water or fresh water, the tubes will clog up. After the engines are shut down, I have found the after coolers remain half filled with water. Sediment in the water creates a crusty type buildup especially at the water line. At 600 hours, 25% of my tubes where blocked. And any cooling water that flows thru the heat exchanger(the item that keeps your engines from over heating) has to first makes its way thru the after cooler. So a 25% clogged Aftercooler means that your aftercooler is only being 75% efficient and that your heat exchanger is only getting 75% of the cooling water it could be getting.

The second reason is more geared towards boats that were ever salt water boats. The O-rings inside the Aftercooler are supposed to keep the cooling water from getting inside the Auminum housing that is only supposed to only have High pressure air that just came from the Turbo charger inside it. Once the o-ring seal is slightly broken and salt water gets inside, the salt water plays havoc on the aluminum and if enough water gets in, it could be sucked into the engine do some really nasty things like bending rods and other expensive reciprocating items. The Boat Diesel fellow at Seaboard marine made me aware of this. His contention is that Cummins never really assembles them correctly from the factory. After taking mine apart, I tend to agree with his findings. His point is that they should be taken apart even on brand new engines and installed correctly with a lubricating grease that will keep the O-ring seal intact indefinitely. Again, my own findings agree with him. Just letting you know. Once I figure out how to attach a picture of the inside of my after cooler, you will see what I mean.

 

[Morgan Jane]

Please delete this reply.

 

[Alex F]

.....My every other year comment is based on the fact that I prefer to solve problems on my schedule while they are maintenance issues, before they become repairs. I don’t like fixing boat unless they are ties up in their slip. So, I wouldn’t try to save $90 on belts by stretching their useful life.....

I totally agree, Frank. I changed my belts last spring as preventive maintenance and was wondering what is the changing interval? I don't recall seeing it in the specs (maybe I just missed it). On my previous boats I would let the belts run for 3-4yrs and if I still have the boat only then I change them. However, I would periodically inspect them.

 

[topgun1185]

I have read alot about the heat exchangers on the QSC 500. There's a great youtube video that I'll try to post. As far a the "O" rings watch out for the price. I've heard horror stories about prices for $10 O rings. My boat is a 07' that was only used in fresh water with 109 hours I plan to take them of for next winter. By the way great thread on the QSC I'm in. I don't have much experience so I'll be reading along.

 

[Morgan Jane]

I have read alot about the heat exchangers on the QSC 500. There's a great youtube video that I'll try to post. As far a the "O" rings watch out for the price. I've heard horror stories about prices for $10 O rings. My boat is a 07' that was only used in fresh water with 109 hours I plan to take them of for next winter. By the way great thread on the QSC I'm in. I don't have much experience so I'll be reading along.

I wish they were $10. This is not a joke. If you go to a Cummins dealer and ask them for an O-ring kit(3-orings) for one aftercooler, they will give you a price of somewhere around $395. Not a joke. 3 O-rings, $400. I ended up buying a kit from Seaboard Marine for I believe $50. It is true that the Cummins 0-rings are a little different. The O-rings that came on mine from the factory were green and had ribs. The ones that I got from Seaboard are just the standard black O-rings. The key to the whole thing is testing the assembled aftercooler to make sure everything is sealed. I tested my by fabricating a block off plate that I had welded a nipple to. Attached to the nipple was a tee, gauge and a ball valve. I put 40psi on the aftercooler and let it sit for a couple hours to make sure the O-rings were doing their job.

 

[Morgan Jane]

As much as you guys like pictures, thought you might like this one. This is what one of my aftercoolers looked like at 600 hours. Something to keep in mind is that cooling water has to make its way thru this cooler before it gets to the cooler that actually keeps the engine cool(heat exchanger). So even though my heat exchangers were very clean, the aftercoolers were keeping a lot of flow from getting to heat exchangers and therefore the engines were running a few degrees higher than they should have been. I can now run full throttle and the engine temps will not go over 174 degrees. they used to creap towards 190 or so. Should also note that these engines spent the first half of their life in saltwater. I am assuming that most of what you see in the picture is because of saltwater.

 

[Hampton]

I just realized that I don't have spare engine impellers. Need part numbers and source - anyone?

Please see the first post in this thread for updates on engines family/series numbers, Racor numbers, Air Filter numbers, and BELT NUMBERS! Yippee! Had I realized they were less than $100 for the pair, I would have gotten them from the dealer the first day.

 

[Sum Escape]

I just realized that I don't have spare engine impellers. Need part numbers and source - anyone?

Please see the first post in this thread for updates on engines family/series numbers, Racor numbers, Air Filter numbers, and BELT NUMBERS! Yippee! Had I realized they were less than $100 for the pair, I would have gotten them from the dealer the first day.

Sherwood 26000k Here is a link to a great price (was $129 a couple weeks ago when I ordered, now up to $149 but I still think the best you will find)

http://www.carolinaboatoutfitters.com/catalog/product_info.php/impeller-sherwood-26000k-kit-p-77419

Here are some other specs you may already have....

AirSep Service Kit	SERVICE KIT CUMMINS QSC	200482	MFP#: 1000267	(818) 252-7788 (Walker)
Fuel filter (spin on)		FleetGuard		FF 5488
			Cummins		3959612
	Racors:		Racor		1000MA
	(10 micron	blue end)	Cummins		3971757
Oil filter			Cummins		3401544
			FleetGuard		LF9009
Impellers			Sherwood		26000K
			Cummins:	3972366

 

[Hampton]

By the way, changing the belts takes about 5 - 10 minutes each. Dayco Poly Rib Gold Label 5080650 (Also labeled "8PK 6650" - 8 Pack?)

EDITED:

1) Remove belt cover with 4 thumbscrews - set screws and rubber washers aside.
2) Obtain 1/2" drive breaker bar or similar.
3) Rotate idler pulley toward center of engine using 1/2" breaker bar in square cutout in pulley.
4) Remove belt.
5) Replace belt.
6) Make sure the belt is in the grooves correctly and release preasure on breaker bar.
7) Start engine and check volts to ensure belt is staying on.
8) Visually inspect belt travel.
9) Shut engine down, replace cover, 4 rubber washers, and 4 thumb screws.
10) Save old belts for emergencies.


(Original for Humour)
1) Remove belt cover with 4 thumbscrews - set screws and rubber washers aside.
2) Get special tool or large plumber-style plyers (I assume there is a special tool).
3) With current belt in place, use a 2 X 4 or similar to push the idler pulley toward the center of the engine.
4) When it moves, take note of the hook shaped fitting to starboard that you can grab with one side of the plyers' jaw.
5) Grab that fitting and the one below it with the plyers and squeeze to relieve the pressure of the idler from the belt.
6) While holding the plyers with one hand, take note of the belt's path and remove it and then slip the new one in before releasing the plyers.
7) Make sure the belt is in the grooves correctly and release the plyers' grip.
8) Start engine and check volts to ensure belt is staying on.
9) Visually inspect belt travel.
10) Shut engine down, replace cover, 4 rubber washers, and 4 thumb screws.
11) Save old belts for emergencies.

NOTE: Keep fingers out from under belt. Keep body parts away from idler pulley in case the plyers slip.

If you remove the belt and lose your grip on the plyers:
1) Find several different sized chunks of wood. 1X1, 1X2, 2x4...
2) Push idler pulley toward center of engine.
3) As you progress, wedge more and more items between the pulley and the engine mount or other nearby stationary piece.
4) When able, use the plyers to grasp the two hook shaped fittings and squeeze the plyers together to move the pulley inboard.
5) While holding plyers (special tool), apply new belt keeping fingers clear.
6) Check alignment. Start engine. Check for voltage to ensure belt in place. Visually inspect belt travel.
7) Shut engine down. Replace belt cover, 4 rubber washers, and 4 thumb screws.
8) Save the belts for emergencies.

I used the second procedure on the first belt and it took me about 1 1/2 hours. I used the first procedure on the second belt and it took less than 5 minutes once the cover was off. I literally think I could do it in less than 2 minutes - good thing - I can't hold the plyers longer than that.

 

[Morgan Jane]

Hampton, just as an after thought. The idler pulley has a 1/2 " square drive hole through it that allows the use of either a 1/2" drive ratchet of a 1/2" breaker bar. I use a
2 ft long 1/2 inch drive breaker bar to pull against the idler pulley spring. Works like a champ for taking off and putting on belts. Should take no longer than 2 minutes to take a belt off and put the new one on. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Hampton]

I saw that and knew it was designed for changing the belt, but I didn't cue in on a simple ratchet drive to twist the idler against the spring. THANKS!

 

[LeeSureTime]

Hampton are you going on soon?

 

[LeeSureTime]

Hampton are you going a boat trip soon? I heard you may be going south again.

 

[Hampton]

Hampton are you going a boat trip soon? I heard you may be going south again.

ROB!

Yes, but not so soon. I bid back to a slightly smaller aircraft (A-320) so that I will be more senior in my category and have a LOT more control over my schedule. I should be able to get every weekend off, or, if I choose, fly a really great trip on a weekend.

So, what this means, is that I will be in training in MSP for 3/4 weeks in Jan/Feb and in MIA for a week as well in Jan. We had planned a trip South for 15 Jan, but have moved that back to 15 Feb (plus or minus). I will probably have vacation the week of 01 April. During that time, my SisterIL and BrotherIL will fly out and join us for the cruise back home during the first week of April.

So, yes and no. We have reservations at the Vinoy Resort Marina in St Pete for those 2 months. Next year, we hope to leave to head South in Jan when we really need it.

Welcome to Club Sea Ray!

Everyone: Rob helped me make the decision to get a 44DB.

 

[Hampton]

IMPELLER CHANGE: Sherwood 26000K (K = Kit includes O-ring)

I changed the engine impellers yesterday afternoon. Took about 4 hours. Definitely need a puller. I did the stbd without removing the pump, at first, but then I pulled it after getting the new impeller in 1/2 way and running into a dead end. With QSC-500's, and maybe others, there is a lot of electronic/electrical equipment 1/2 an impeller's width behind the pump. It wasn't worth risking messing that stuff up trying to force the impeller in. Pics to follow.

Need: 3/4" fine thread 2" long (or so) bolt to thread into impeller to extract old one.
10mm wrench - open preferred
13mm wrench - open preferred
Assorted sockets
Towel to protect drive gears

CLOSE THE BALL VALVE TO THE STRAINER!!!!!!!!!!

1) Remove drain plug at bottom of pump - pump appears to be symmetrical - this will help you get it in the same way it was when you took it out.
2) Remove 4 upper bolts (10mm) and move SS piping to side.
3) Remove 4 lower bolts (13mm) and move intake hose to side.
4) Remove 2 large bolts (socket) which detaches pump from engine.
5) Rotate pump and remove and set down on protective towel.

6) Remove 3 end plate bolts and remove the end plate - note the O-ring (Replace as required).
7) Insert 3/4" fine thread bolt or other pulling device and draw impeller out noting CCW turn pattern of the impeller.
8) Check end plate for wear and entire pump for general condition.
9) Clean out a bit with soap and water - leave soapy. Soap up new impeller.
10) Rotating CCW, insert new impeller until about 1/2 way when it stops rotating - note it will not be centered on the shaft, but will be centered in the pump. The vanes push evenly on the sides of the pump at this point, but they are asymmetrical once on the shaft.
11) Lay pump on towel, gears down, and use palm to push impeller onto shaft - you will have to move it to the side to get the asymmetrical alignment.
12) Continue to push impeller in until seated - vanes should not protrude beyond housing.
13) Replace end plate, O-ring and 3 bolts.

14) Ensure gears are clean (direct access to engine oil). Align pump in place displaced slightly CCW from correct alignment.
15) Rotate pump ClockWise as gears accept pump and it ends up aligned - if it doesn't pull back and try again. If you have to rotate the pump housing, make sure you are rotating it CW so that the impeller is rotating in its natural direction, CCW as you align the pump.
16) Replace 2 large bolts.
17) Realign SS tube and replace 4 bolts. Clean surfaces first with rag. There is an O-ring (replace?) that may try to slip out while you do this. Ensure the O-ring is in the slot when the halves meet in place. Tighten the 4 bolts diagonally, progressing a little at a time.
18) Realign the intake hose (Could be difficult) and replace the 4 bolts. Note the O-Ring. Tighten diagonally, progressing a little at a time.

OPEN BALL VALVE TO STRAINER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

19) Check for leaks.
20) Start engine(s). Check for leaks and water flow at exhaust.
21) 22) 23) 24) Have a beer.

 

[Hampton]

View of Stbd Engine from between the two engines, looking forward and slighly Stb:

View of Port Engine pump from in front of Port Engine, looking aft between the engine and the port side fuel tank (2 photos):

Cover off, Pull Impeller out with Bolt/Puller. Note the four bolts on top, 4 bolts below, and 2 large bolts far to the left in the photo:

Finish pulling impeller out:

Inspect interior, O-ring...:

May as well pull pump off. Set pump on towel to protect gears, clean, soap, push new impeller in. Note that the vanes are no longer symmetrical. The pump works by compressing the vanes and forcing water down stream - this makes it hard to push the impeller in:

Inspect opening from which pump was extracted. Clean around edge - don't wipe grit into engine:

Bring plenty of help:

 

[Hampton]

Pics posted above.

 

[Hampton]

I've updated the first post in this thread with impeller numbers and engine oil test kit details.