MAN diesel experience?

I think the one part of the service that is somewhat debatable is the replacement of injectors. Oil, coolant, cleaning after cooler and heat exchanger and even a valve check is all standard for any diesel. The proactive replacing of injectors is something these shops are different with their recommendation.
 
ranger58sb said:
Maybe if I can identify a likely storage slot in our garage, I'll start stockpiling. :)

-Chris
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Chris - I put a couple in the bilge well in front of the engines, and I have a piece of non-skid on top of my water heater, and two will sit there as well…
 
SeaNile said:
I think the one part of the service that is somewhat debatable is the replacement of injectors. Oil, coolant, cleaning after cooler and heat exchanger and even a valve check is all standard for any diesel. The proactive replacing of injectors is something these shops are different with their recommendation.
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It is my understanding that does not apply to common rail CRMs - only the non-CR engines.
 
ranger58sb said:
Yeah, I haven't heard Wendel & Co. mention replacing injectors.

-Chris
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My initial challenge is I don't have a Wendel yet so I'm starting all my research from scratch. Called a few MAN places from a google search and so far the estimate to get these completely up to date has been consistent. About 20k assuming these have no service records.

I've got to do a little more digging into this. I just can't believe a boat from 2004 has absolutely no service history, no receipts, etc. Current owner has had the boat for only a year and due to personal reasons has decided to sell. Kind of a long story but the boat showed as well as any 15yr old boat I've ever seen. Just need to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
 
SeaNile said:
Yes, these are not common rail. D2876 LE 405
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To make injector changes worse, a number of years ago, the preferred replacements turned out to burn a LOT of pistons -MAN had to completely change vendors. I don’t recall from whom to whom…
 
SeaNile said:
My initial challenge is I don't have a Wendel yet so I'm starting all my research from scratch. Called a few MAN places from a google search and so far the estimate to get these completely up to date has been consistent. About 20k assuming these have no service records.
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At one point, before purchase, I had a discussion with the guy at Shore Power and he was very helpful. (Sorry, haven't re-found his actual name yet.) They had been working aboard a 550 named "Chaser" that was on Kent Island, had been sold, and the owners was getting ready to go south ASAP.. and the broker (Dave Sheilds, OceanClubYachts) was kind enough to let us get in a quick tour during all that. Anyway, that discussion was very helpful, as were my pre-purchase discussions with Wendel and his guys.

-Chris
 
Great info. I’ll give Shore Power a call Monday AM.

So far I really like this boat. Just have to gather as much info possible before making a decision.
 
ranger58sb said:
At one point, before purchase, I had a discussion with the guy at Shore Power and he was very helpful. (Sorry, haven't re-found his actual name yet.) They had been working aboard a 550 named "Chaser" that was on Kent Island, had been sold, and the owners was getting ready to go south ASAP.. and the broker (Dave Sheilds, OceanClubYachts) was kind enough to let us get in a quick tour during all that. Anyway, that discussion was very helpful, as were my pre-purchase discussions with Wendel and his guys.

-Chris
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Ritchie is the guy at Shore Power. Good guy. He spent a lot of time on the phone with me before I made the decision to buy the boat with MANs. Performance Diesel recommends him, they trained him and his guys on MANs. His shop did my starter this summer, they were great, and they will be doing all MAN work on my boat when it’s up here.
 
My guy is Steve from Northern Marine Diesel. I suspect this may be who @carterchapman spoke to at FLIBS. He’s been with my boat since sea trial 6 years ago and has been a tremendous resource for me. Super knowledgeable and can handle any task on these MANs and do so blindfolded. He checks everything over during my service appointments. I can’t show specific paperwork for all these M1, M2, C1 etc. but I know that Steve is on top of keeping my motors in tip-top condition. One variation that is significant is that my boat has been freshwater since delivered to the first owner (I am second owner) with the exception of her original trip from the factory to Tennessee. Steve knows how to read the gauges, temps, specs, etc, along with visual inspections of coolers, cores, etc. and reassures me that my engines are clean as a whistle.

I guess what I’m saying here is as far as I’m concerned, the paperwork, or lack thereof, should not be the only factor in determining what laundry list needs to be checked off in the MAN book. Ask around, speak to the guy (or gal) that has worked on the boat, ask MAN to run serial numbers, etc. As a few here have already mentioned, a lot of the checklist items are in place to keep you spending money with MAN and to keep a warranty valid. A perfect example, when you change out cooling fluid, inspect the hoses. If they look brand new, like mine do a at 16 years old, why replace them? If they are cracked and chaffed and dried out, then yes. Why tear the engine down for heat exchanger/after cooler cleaning, service , or replacement if you pull the end caps off and there is zero sign of corrosion or blockage, and the temps all register correctly on the gauges?

If you’ve ever owned a Mercedes, you know that they come with this big thick service book to repair and replace items at certain intervals. My first Mercedes back in the early 90’s scared me with all this seemingly unnecessary “printed” expectation to replace non-worn items with new. This is pretty much the same example with MAN engines. Keep close eyes and ears on them and they will talk to you.
 
tc410 said:
My guy is Steve from Northern Marine Diesel. I suspect this may be who @carterchapman spoke to at FLIBS. He’s been with my boat since sea trial 6 years ago and has been a tremendous resource for me. Super knowledgeable and can handle any task on these MANs and do so blindfolded. He checks everything over during my service appointments. I can’t show specific paperwork for all these M1, M2, C1 etc. but I know that Steve is on top of keeping my motors in tip-top condition. One variation that is significant is that my boat has been freshwater since delivered to the first owner (I am second owner) with the exception of her original trip from the factory to Tennessee. Steve knows how to read the gauges, temps, specs, etc, along with visual inspections of coolers, cores, etc. and reassures me that my engines are clean as a whistle.

I guess what I’m saying here is as far as I’m concerned, the paperwork, or lack thereof, should not be the only factor in determining what laundry list needs to be checked off in the MAN book. Ask around, speak to the guy (or gal) that has worked on the boat, ask MAN to run serial numbers, etc. As a few here have already mentioned, a lot of the checklist items are in place to keep you spending money with MAN and to keep a warranty valid. A perfect example, when you change out cooling fluid, inspect the hoses. If they look brand new, like mine do a at 16 years old, why replace them? If they are cracked and chaffed and dried out, then yes. Why tear the engine down for heat exchanger/after cooler cleaning, service , or replacement if you pull the end caps off and there is zero sign of corrosion or blockage, and the temps all register correctly on the gauges?

If you’ve ever owned a Mercedes, you know that they come with this big thick service book to repair and replace items at certain intervals. My first Mercedes back in the early 90’s scared me with all this seemingly unnecessary “printed” expectation to replace non-worn items with new. This is pretty much the same example with MAN engines. Keep close eyes and ears on them and they will talk to you.
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Completely agree. I'm going to start with getting the serial numbers and making a few phone calls. I like the boat, but want to make sure the required service is all that is required. Gotta run oil samples and all that other stuff to see if this thing is OK or a polished turd.

Sure didn't feel like a turd when we went for ride. Boat and engines were impressive!!!!! Despite a few minor things that popped up during and after the ride.
 
One other thought. Sometimes the MAN shops provide maintenance information to Performance Diesel. If so, PD keeps it in their database with reference to the engine serial numbers. I was not so lucky, but in your case it may be worth asking about.
 
tc410 said:
A perfect example, when you change out cooling fluid, inspect the hoses. If they look brand new, like mine do a at 16 years old, why replace them? If they are cracked and chaffed and dried out, then yes. Why tear the engine down for heat exchanger/after cooler cleaning, service , or replacement if you pull the end caps off and there is zero sign of corrosion or blockage, and the temps all register correctly on the gauges?
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I didn't have any luck with serial number look-ups... but that kind of check-first approach is pretty much what Tom Mann, the MAN guy in Wilmington told me when I spoke to him about a boat in that area... and then echo'd later by Wendel and Steven at Gulf Coast Diesel.

-Chris
 
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ranger58sb said:
I didn't have any luck with serial number look-ups... but that kind of check-first approach is pretty much what Tom DeMann, the MAN guy in Wilmington told me when I spoke to him about a boat in that area... and then echo'd later by Gulf Wendel and Steven at Gulf Coast Diesel.

-Chris
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Tom DeMann? That name brings back memories!! Bought a pair of reman 6bta from him and trucked my 31 Bertram to him for a repower. Must have been about 20 years ago.
 
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So far the general feedback from both owners and MAN diesel repair shops is they love the engines. Maybe it's the specific model I'm inquiring about but there doesn't seem to be a glaring weakness. Haven't heard of dropped valves, general over propping issues leading to other problems, exhaust issues with high temps, etc. Sounds like if you keep up on the maintenance like you would with any other engine they are strong great running diesels. The 1000 hr service is a doozie but when you read through the service it doesn't appear to be anything unique to MAN.

The one part that is debatable is the injector replacement. Some say if it's running fine don't look for trouble, some say test every injector, yet others say replace them all proactively.

Also seems like the service schedule is not necessarily written in stone, it's a combination of hours and/or years between service.

The added bonus for me is freshwater. Once you mention fresh water every mechanic I spoke to said that is the X factor and will add a considerable time between services. At least for heat exchanger and aftercoolers.
 
SeaNile said:
So far the general feedback from both owners and MAN diesel repair shops is they love the engines. Maybe it's the specific model I'm inquiring about but there doesn't seem to be a glaring weakness. Haven't heard of dropped valves, general over propping issues leading to other problems, exhaust issues with high temps, etc. Sounds like if you keep up on the maintenance like you would with any other engine they are strong great running diesels. The 1000 hr service is a doozie but when you read through the service it doesn't appear to be anything unique to MAN.

The one part that is debatable is the injector replacement. Some say if it's running fine don't look for trouble, some say test every injector, yet others say replace them all proactively.

Also seems like the service schedule is not necessarily written in stone, it's a combination of hours and/or years between service.

The added bonus for me is freshwater. Once you mention fresh water every mechanic I spoke to said that is the X factor and will add a considerable time between services. At least for heat exchanger and aftercoolers.
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The MAN's like every engine will not perform well if incorrectly propped. Part of the major MAN service is a sea trial and they will make sure you get up to rated rpm.

My gut feeling is when Performance Diesel worked with Sea Ray on the install specs and propping, they didn't allow Sea Ray to push the prop so big that it wouldn't hit rated RPM under a normal load. I think the Cummins installs all ran at rated RPM in lightship conditions and that was "good enough". Again, just my opinions.
 
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