MAN diesel experience?

SeaNile

SeaNile

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2010
1,522
Chadds Ford, PA
Boat Info
2003 50 Sundancer
Engines
Cummins QSM11
Doing my due diligence on all options out there, one of them being MAN Diesel engines. Specifically the 680d (not sure that’s the full model number).

I’ve heard all the rumors about these engines but mostly the larger ones. I’m not looking to keep this boat forever but are the MAN engines a negative?

From what I can gather the 1000hr service has not been completed. It’s a salt water boat but will be brought to fresh water if I buy this boat.

Thanks for the help!
 
Most of the MAN rumors you will hear are from people who have never owned a MAN diesel engine and are talking out of their ass. Having said that, MAN engines, like any German engineered item has a different maintenance schedule than other diesel engines. To start, what year and model boat are you looking at and which MAN engine?
 
SeaNile said:
Doing my due diligence on all options out there, one of them being MAN Diesel engines. Specifically the 680d (not sure that’s the full model number).

I’ve heard all the rumors about these engines but mostly the larger ones. I’m not looking to keep this boat forever but are the MAN engines a negative?

From what I can gather the 1000hr service has not been completed. It’s a salt water boat but will be brought to fresh water if I buy this boat.

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

What year? or more specifically what boat model and year if you care to share.

I will say my actual experience with MAN's is limited to my ownership of my current boat since April. BUT I did a ton of research and spoke with 4 different actual owners and three service shops between New England And Texas.

The "1000 hour" service on a common rail is not by engine hours but by calendar. The most expensive service is called an A1 is every two years if in salt water and used year round. That can be extended to 3 or 4 years if in fresh water or layed up half a year with antifreeze in freezing northern climates. For a V8 MAN 900 CRM the average "A1" service is around $14,000, adding the A2 service which is a coolant flush and change adds another $1500ish. The A2 is every 4 years. Not sure on the costs for the R600 but I would guess 30-40% less but I never enquired.

These engines are super reliable but they have a ton of electronic sensors, when they fail and the will at some point the engine will go into limp mode. But because they have a ton of sensors the engine is also protecting itself super well.

The older non common rail engines I am not sure on, I didn't look at any boat that had them.
 
From what I've learned...

1. Rarely do people follow the maintenance schedule on any motor, especially MAN'S which leads me to,
2. MANs are a little more costly to maintain to their maintenance schedule due to parts, and
3. Certified MAN techs who know what they are doing are more rare than CAT, Cummins and Volvo techs, so
4. Good techs charge a premium and may exploit what other techs don't know about MAN'S, because
5. Info about MAN'S are harder to come by than Cummins and other known brands

All that said,

They are very powerful, well-made motors given they are taken care of.
 
I'm not familiar with that boat but it pretty close to me. MAN does not have a 680d engine model, but given the year and model of that boat I'm going to guess its an inline 6 with 700 HP, or so. That's a different animal than the V8 and V10 MANs that Sea Ray used in their bigger boats.
 
I learned a lot about MAN diesels from Brian's posts in the 58DB thread. Then I memorized discussions on boatdieseol.com (and compared to other similar sized/horsepower engines from other brands), talked with MAN dealers, got estimates in advance of contract offers, etc, and that helped.

In our area, it's apparently easier to find certified MAN service than Volvo. Not that there aren't Volvo places around, but that they're usually booked up. Estimates to rehab neglected Volvo D12/715s were similar to estimates to rehab our V8-900 CRMs.

I have not had difficulty learning about MAN diesels. Their manual is clear and complete.

Our particular MAN diesels don't have a "1000 hour service" -- instead it's spaced out in 200 and 400 hour increments. Covered well in the service record book.

I've not had electronic common rail diesels before; the amount of available monitoring information is impressive. And so far, after about 120 hours on the trip from Ft. Myers to Annapolis and a few local trips, I'm very pleased. (The V8 configuration doesn't make movement through the engine room easy; I'm learning to cope with that.)

So far, our rebuild (seriously neglected engines) has been slightly less expensive than quotes our friends have gotten on neglected Cat 3196s. (And follow-on support from Gulf Coast Diesel in Punta Gorda has been excellent.)

Oil filters aren't particularly expensive (I'm just now getting ready to change those, so just bought new ones). The OIL our particular engines want -- a Mobil synthetic -- is a tad on the expensive side.

That particular listing isn't very useful for identifying the actual engines, but you might be able to correlate "680D" somehow to an existing MAN diesel by browsing boatdiesel.com.

Importmonkey makes a good point: there are apparently lots of owners out there who don't actually know what the word "maintenance" means... and/or they're just too lazy, too cheap, or too entitled to care about such mundane things.

-Chris
 
ranger58sb said:
I learned a lot about MAN diesels from Brian's posts in the 58DB thread. Then I memorized discussions on boatdieseol.com (and compared to other similar sized/horsepower engines from other brands), talked with MAN dealers, got estimates in advance of contract offers, etc, and that helped.

In our area, it's apparently easier to find certified MAN service than Volvo. Not that there aren't Volvo places around, but that they're usually booked up. Estimates to rehab neglected Volvo D12/715s were similar to estimates to rehab our V8-900 CRMs.

I have not had difficulty learning about MAN diesels. Their manual is clear and complete.

Our particular MAN diesels don't have a "1000 hour service" -- instead it's spaced out in 200 and 400 hour increments. Covered well in the service record book.

I've not had electronic common rail diesels before; the amount of available monitoring information is impressive. And so far, after about 120 hours on the trip from Ft. Myers to Annapolis and a few local trips, I'm very pleased. (The V8 configuration doesn't make movement through the engine room easy; I'm learning to cope with that.)

So far, our rebuild (seriously neglected engines) has been slightly less expensive than quotes our friends have gotten on neglected Cat 3196s. (And follow-on support from Gulf Coast Diesel in Punta Gorda has been excellent.)

Oil filters aren't particularly expensive (I'm just now getting ready to change those, so just bought new ones). The OIL our particular engines want -- a Mobil synthetic -- is a tad on the expensive side.

That particular listing isn't very useful for identifying the actual engines, but you might be able to correlate "680D" somehow to an existing MAN diesel by browsing boatdiesel.com.

Importmonkey makes a good point: there are apparently lots of owners out there who don't actually know what the word "maintenance" means... and/or they're just too lazy, too cheap, or too entitled to care about such mundane things.

-Chris
Click to expand...

I'm on the Upper Chesapeake so not terribly far away. I'm going make a few calls and see who is local and could service MAN engines should I need something. I looked through the maintenance schedule, nothing unusual at all as it mostly involves the usual after cooler and heat exchanger cleaning. It does mention replacing injectors, that is over my skill set but maybe not too complicated for a marine diesel mechanic?
 
The Sea Ray owners archive model specs don't list an MAN option for 2004 but they did for 2005.

They are "D2876 LE 405" rated at 740hp. 6 cylinder. These are not common rail, the equivalent common rail is the R6-800.

I would call your local MAN service center, as mentioned I have talked with three of them before ever owning, all spent at least 20 minutes on the phone with me answering questions and talking about the maintenance schedule and what to look for even before a survey.
 
My good friend owned the 2005 version of the boat you are looking at. The boat ran incredibly fast and was rock solid in a seaway. He did, however, have several engine incidents where the fix was a new circuit board. As I recall, they each cost in excess of $2K and in at least one case he had to have the board flown in from Germany. I have no idea if he was just unlucky or if MAN boards fail frequently enough to worry about.
I do know the guy who worked on his boat at a Sea Ray dealer. Not a MAN tech but knew enough to minimize the number of times the real techs needed to be called in. He's a surveyor now and you might consider using him if you make an offer. PM me and I can send you his contact info. I suspect he would take time to discuss what he knows about MANs if you give him a call while you are looking.
 
In the Bay Area also,2 years running R6-800 engines, as the rest have said it’s all about maintenance, that being said when I bought mine there were no records from previous 2 owners. No real issues, I bought all the maintenance up to date. 2 companies to deal with in this area, Hild’s and Shore Power
 
doozie said:
In the Bay Area also,2 years running R6-800 engines, as the rest have said it’s all about maintenance, that being said when I bought mine there were no records from previous 2 owners. No real issues, I bought all the maintenance up to date. 2 companies to deal with in this area, Hild’s and Shore Power
Click to expand...

I'm afraid to even ask what getting them up to date cost.....?
 
SeaNile said:
I'm afraid to even ask what getting them up to date cost.....?
Click to expand...

Bought my boat two years back and had the Catapiller guys bring everything up to date: after all was said and done $18k. That included new after coolers and a new high pressure fuel pump.
Spend the bucks and have a certified technician do the engin survey. I'm just sayin have what ever manufacturer it might be do the sea trial specifically on the engines. That way you'll have a base line to get things 100%. You'll know what you're looking at from the get go.
 
So I had Hilds do the survey, everything checked out OK, biggest concern was the after coolers. Engines had 670 hours at 14 years old, After coolers were never serviced. Their quote including repairing the tube bundle and housing if needed was 14K. I took everything apart, the tubes and housing were in good shape, cleaned everything up, pressure tested and reinstalled. Including all new gaskets, new fuel filters filter, new oil filters, new oil separator filters, replaces all water line hoses with silicone, Replaced 1 bad coolant pressure sensor and other misc. parts. I probably spent 6K. Then engines run perfect, the amount of info the displays provide is fantastic. The only draw back is getting parts, not like you can stop at the CAT store and pick them up, Both local service people carry the basics, I've had no problem ordering the parts and receiving them within a week. Good Luck Bob
 
SeaNile said:
I'm on the Upper Chesapeake so not terribly far away. I'm going make a few calls and see who is local and could service MAN engines should I need something. I looked through the maintenance schedule, nothing unusual at all as it mostly involves the usual after cooler and heat exchanger cleaning. It does mention replacing injectors, that is over my skill set but maybe not too complicated for a marine diesel mechanic?
Click to expand...


If it helps, I can tell you we made our first offer on this boat "subject to successful maintenance records review" plus all the other normal conditions (marine survey, mechanical survey, sea trail, etc.). Then began with the "show me your records" approach. No cost to me, so far. Nothing, nada, zip surfaced about engine maintenance, so we walked.

Then I got an estimate for bringing the engines back into service schedule compliance, assuming the M1 through M6 and A1/A2 services -- the whole nine yards -- would be required. Some time passed, maybe one of the few times in this market where a boat hadn't already been sold before listing... and we eventually went back with another offer, this time lowered by the estimated update cost... and still subject to surveys and sea trial and so forth. The seller did question our new offer, but it would have been difficult to refute the estimate., and the seller accepted the lower number.

Eventually we did the surveys and sea trial, which surfaced another boatload of engine issues. Actually, even before sea trial, the MAN tech offered me a chance to walk away; his quick overview was that the engines would lots need more than just the M1-M6/A1/A2 service. Sure enough, they also needed MMDS boards repaired, displays repaired, new B exhaust risers (plus some additional generator work). We then got another estimate to make those repairs, lowered our offer, and eventually everything came together in a way I was willing to accept.

Anecdote: While we were doing the sea trial, and while the local MAN tech was onboard monitoring systems and so forth and standing right next to us at the time... the marine surveyor asked the seller who usually did the engine maintenance. The seller said he hadn't been able to find a MAN service provider... in the 5 years he'd owned the boat. (It took me exactly one query on an Internet forum.)

-Chris
 
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Ouch. One MAN place says maintenance is about 15k every 2 years. Woa. That’s crazy.
 
They said since the heads are aluminum the gaskets need to be replaced every 2 years. 3 at most in freshwater.
 
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