MAN diesel experience?

[swaterhouse]

Humbling yet slightly unrealistic call with a MAN place today. I got the idea for bringing the engines up to spec. Latest MAN place then recommends injectors every 1000 hrs (other MAN place said 2 yrs no matter hours) and then said aftercoolers every 2 yrs for about 10k. Then the best....what boat? 50 SeaRay, so figure about 1.4mil new with a rough estimate of 15% of cost of new for maintenance....so figure about 150k per year on upkeep.

I highly doubt you guys are paying 150k+/yr in upkeep for your boat. If so, mic drop, I'm going back to a SunDeck.

Lots of "formulas" out there but the one I usually here is 10% that includes permanent dockage/storage/insurance and upkeep. It does not include transient dockage or running costs.

I hate these formulas because there are SO many variables. Take dockage, my current slip is 0.5 miles by water away from my last slip and has essentially the same amenities and services but is 50% higher cost per ft/year for equal sized slips. If we moved to a marina on Cape Cod, about 10 miles away it would be twice as much as we pay today and get absolutely nothing more other that fighting Cape Traffic. Insurance is also largely based on coverage, experience and credit ratings. I had a choice between several policies the cheapest was half the cost of the most expensive, in the end we chose the second most expensive. The only difference between the policies was the restrictions on navigation.

That said I will still be no where near the 10% number for the 12 month period from May 2021 to May 2022 unless something major is discovered this winter. I am in the maintenance catchup year, plus replacing longer term wear items like the bridge enclosure, full bottom job and catching up on MAN maintenance.

 

[SeaNile]

I too hate the formulas for estimating costs for owning a boat. I just kind of chuckled to myself because there is no way in hell my basic upkeep would be 150k if I bought this particular boat.

I've lucked out over the years and never had a major bill or repair. Lots of money spent on upgrades but so far so good.

 

[carterchapman]

Very cool!

By the way my MMDS battery (the scrambled hours thing) was replaced by Performance Diesel for $975 (not including shipping in either direction). It was turned around in 7 days with overnight shipping in each direction.

I got both mine done two years apart for $600 each through Gulf Coast Diesel. But that included a MAN credit which has since ended. I bet any board repair shop could solder on a new battery for a heck of a lot less!! Now...if I just knew of a board repair shop!!

 

[carterchapman]

Humbling yet slightly unrealistic call with a MAN place today. I got the idea for bringing the engines up to spec. Latest MAN place then recommends injectors every 1000 hrs (other MAN place said 2 yrs no matter hours) and then said aftercoolers every 2 yrs for about 10k. Then the best....what boat? 50 SeaRay, so figure about 1.4mil new with a rough estimate of 15% of cost of new for maintenance....so figure about 150k per year on upkeep.

I highly doubt you guys are paying 150k+/yr in upkeep for your boat. If so, mic drop, I'm going back to a SunDeck.

I budget $5K per month for everything - and I've not come close yet...
Always remember - Big boats are "good negative cash flow"!!!

 

[importmonkey]

Where is the boat? Bayside is in Mystic CT. @bmac used a guy in Norfolk, VA that travelled a lot, I think its Advanced Marine Diesel, the website doesn't work but they do have a facebook page. Seems like they would be a lot closer than Bayside. Nothing personal against Bayside, they are doing my A1 and A2 this winter, just think there are closer to you options than Bayside.

I've been working with Steve on a boat I've been interested in. He's a great guy. Knows his stuff and is very particular. Shame the deal didn't work out, but I was prepared to hand over the vessel to him with an open checkbook to get 'er up to my standards.

 

[SeaNile]

Thoughts on these EGT readings? Engines turned 2243/2250 WOT (WOT 2200 spec)

Readings taken from the MAN helm displays at about 1700 rpm’s showed (port/starboard): Gearbox temperature 90/no reading; Oil pressure 60/62; Coolant temperature 183/183; Gearbox pressure no reading/no reading; Coolant pressure 38/37; Oil temperature 212/205; Boost pressure 21/24; exhaust temperature 1057/978.

These are the 680hp version of the d2876 le 405 engines

 

[swaterhouse]

I just looked quick at my records, again I have a different beast in mine is a V8 900hp CRM but my numbers look similar with the exception of the EGT when I was running about 1950 rpms (just shy of 80% load). My EGT was about 1200 for all 4 turbos (taken before the turbo).

Why are you questioning? These don't have the same manifold leak issues as the QSM if that is what you were wondering.

 

[SeaNile]

I just looked quick at my records, again I have a different beast in mine is a V8 900hp CRM but my numbers look similar with the exception of the EGT when I was running about 1950 rpms (just shy of 80% load). My EGT was about 1200 for all 4 turbos (taken before the turbo).

Why are you questioning? These don't have the same manifold leak issues as the QSM if that is what you were wondering.

Only asking because I love to obsess and hyper focus! Found a boat I am interested in but when they bought the boat about a year ago they didn't perform an engine survey. I have limited info from the survey including the EGTs and was wondering if they are in line with what's normal. I figure since they turn +50 WOT the boat is propped correctly.

Now trying to reason with someone who owns a boat that runs well and explaining to them that it needs 20k+ in maintenance is not for the faint of heart.

 

[quality time]

I try to keep my EGT's under 1000 (measured just after the turbo). You'd be surprised how much increasing or decreasing 50 RPM will change temps. On the hottest days of the year mine will creep a little past 1000. 1700-1800 RPM is the worst for my engines so maybe they aren't cruising at the optimum RPM range.

 

[swaterhouse]

Only asking because I love to obsess and hyper focus! Found a boat I am interested in but when they bought the boat about a year ago they didn't perform an engine survey. I have limited info from the survey including the EGTs and was wondering if they are in line with what's normal. I figure since they turn +50 WOT the boat is propped correctly.

Now trying to reason with someone who owns a boat that runs well and explaining to them that it needs 20k+ in maintenance is not for the faint of heart.

Its just scary to me how many people own larger boats and have no clue what's needed to keep them maintained properly.

I think you said this boat was only owned for 1 year correct? Can they possible get you to contact info for the last broker and see if the original owner still has some old records? I received a call this summer from the buyers broker on a boat I sold years ago asking for records a major service that was done. I know I supplied the owner that info as I felt it was important, but not surprisingly he couldn't find it. I still had a copy in my email so I sent it to them.

Its possible the current owner never asked for records, especially if they are clueless on what need to be done. That also shows cluelessness that they never had an engine survey.

Good luck, very happy to no longer be in the active market.

 

[SeaNile]

Its just scary to me how many people own larger boats and have no clue what's needed to keep them maintained properly.

I think you said this boat was only owned for 1 year correct? Can they possible get you to contact info for the last broker and see if the original owner still has some old records? I received a call this summer from the buyers broker on a boat I sold years ago asking for records a major service that was done. I know I supplied the owner that info as I felt it was important, but not surprisingly he couldn't find it. I still had a copy in my email so I sent it to them.

Its possible the current owner never asked for records, especially if they are clueless on what need to be done. That also shows cluelessness that they never had an engine survey.

Good luck, very happy to no longer be in the active market.

I’m one step ahead of you. Already spoke to the previous owner and have copies of everything, including the price that he sold it for. He did some work but these MAN still need the A1 and A2 service. About 20k not including anything else they may find or fixing existing issues (persistent alarm, some gauges not working correctly, etc ).

Its all going to come down to will they accept my offer. There is no way they are making 27k on a flip on a boat that needs maintenance. Not sure where I’ll start but probably their purchase price less service cost.

 

[SeaNile]

Just received an official estimate for the services required to get the engines up to date on everything. This is the A1 and A2 service. $24,000

 

[Jus the two of us]

Glad I twist my own wrenches, That's a lot of Boat Bucks!!

 

[SeaNile]

Glad I twist my own wrenches, That's a lot of Boat Bucks!!

The only thing i can really see as a cost you can't avoid is the purchase of the injectors. Seems like most go with rebuilt which saves some money.

 

[Jus the two of us]

Exactly, When you look at the parts cost verses the total bill The labor is over Half the bill. I won't be changing injectors unless I notice a issue. With all the filters the MANs have injectors should last a long time.

 

[swaterhouse]

Exactly, When you look at the parts cost verses the total bill The labor is over Half the bill. I won't be changing injectors unless I notice a issue. With all the filters the MANs have injectors should last a long time.

Yes that is totally true on a CRM, unfortunately the boat @SeaNile is looking at is not a CRM version and injectors are apparently a two year item.

 

[SeaNile]

Yes that is totally true on a CRM, unfortunately the boat @SeaNile is looking at is not a CRM version and injectors are apparently a two year item.

That is true, these are non common rail engines, 2004 vintage. Injectors are a every 2 yr or 1000hrs, whichever comes first. Apparently this is a pretty serious maintenance item that shouldn't be skipped even if the boat is running great and not smoking, etc.

 

[Jus the two of us]

Yes that is totally true on a CRM, unfortunately the boat @SeaNile is looking at is not a CRM version and injectors are apparently a two year item.

Did not know that, All good info for Sure.

 

[Brett H]

Did not know that, All good info for Sure.

The MAN guy (Tom DeMann) that performed the initial complete service upon purchasing the boat, told me he doesn't automatically recommend changing injectors. He recommends sending them out for testing/service (they are Bosch, I think). Apparently he has had several instances of brand new injectors that failed. Not sure if the comment was engine specific. Mine are 2004 mechanical engines D2848LE403's.

 

[SeaNile]

The MAN guy (Tom DeMann) that performed the initial complete service upon purchasing the boat, told me he doesn't automatically recommend changing injectors. He recommends sending them out for testing/service (they are Bosch, I think). Apparently he has had several instances of brand new injectors that failed. Not sure if the comment was engine specific. Mine are 2004 mechanical engines D2848LE403's.

I spoke to Tom a few weeks ago. He's a riot, had him repower my 31 Bertram 17 years ago....

He said with no records to definitely have the injectors pulled and tested and about 90% of them fail. Recommended having rebuilt ones installed, etc. He was pretty passionate about staying on top of the injectors as any issues could lead to huge expensive problems! Stick with the MAN service schedule and check injectors every 2 years or 1000 hrs.