Job offer, "chasing" money, career changes and the like

[b_arrington]

Crazy….. this never meeting your boss stuff…. I can’t comprehend that. My machines can’t run themselves so I need those guys and support needs to be there when stuff needs changing. How do you remote guys load a trailer to pay for your sitting at home ass?

Very different industries / jobs. I'm in digital solutions portfolio management for vertical markets. That means I look at the basket of digital solutions, software, services, and hardware that will best address the needs of the customers our sales force serves. My job is to rationalized the portfolio, making sure we have the right offerings for the market, can explain their value, and help the sales reps do their jobs. My company very strongly focuses on software and services, most of which can be implemented remotely. There are warehouse, installation, and service techs that support the hardware. Those folks obviously can't be remote. It all comes down to job description and function.

My last company defined three categories of job:

1. 100% virtual (not assigned to an office). Typically regional sales people that don't have to to the office, but they may support dealers.
2. Hybrid. Split office/home. Typically HQ employees that could do their work remotely with no impact on performance.
3. On-Site. Employees who's job function requires to be in the office. Warehouse guys, repair techs, hardware Q/A, etc.

If you're in the manufacturing space, a lot of your staff is going to be category 3 and home work just isn't feasible. Likewise a boat mechanic isn't going to be virtual.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Docs use robotics now and virtual office visits, I am waiting for virtual surgeries.

I am in IT, Software Development specifically, remote work works well for this industry. In fact good luck finding a developer who will come into an office now. I rarely met any of my offshore resources at previous companies so it's really not all that different IMO.

 

[Stee6043]

It'll be interesting to see us having these conversations 10-15 years from now. If a job can be done full-remote, there's no reason for that job to exist anywhere other than the low cost regions of the world. The folks so passionate about the benefits of working remote seem blind to the fact that they are, at this very moment, building the business case to offshore every one of their jobs.

If/when big companies lose in their push to force people back into the office, there will be a reckoning. It'll almost certainly start with those of you living in the higher cost regions of the country.

It's better to be seen, repeatedly

 

[Golfman25]

It'll be interesting to see us having these conversations 10-15 years from now. If a job can be done full-remote, there's no reason for that job to exist anywhere other than the low cost regions of the world. The folks so passionate about the benefits of working remote seem blind to the fact that they are, at this very moment, building the business case to offshore every one of their jobs.

If/when big companies lose in their push to force people back into the office, there will be a reckoning. It'll almost certainly start with those of you living in the higher cost regions of the country.

It's better to be seen, repeatedly

I was just about to make the same comments.

 

[Creekwood]

It'll be interesting to see us having these conversations 10-15 years from now. If a job can be done full-remote, there's no reason for that job to exist anywhere other than the low cost regions of the world. The folks so passionate about the benefits of working remote seem blind to the fact that they are, at this very moment, building the business case to offshore every one of their jobs.

If/when big companies lose in their push to force people back into the office, there will be a reckoning. It'll almost certainly start with those of you living in the higher cost regions of the country.

It's better to be seen, repeatedly

Many years ago our company moved office locations to a new place about 15 miles from the original office. Many people complained about the longer commute and in a “town hall” meeting, one guy stood up and asked if he could work from home rather than go to the office.
The office managing partner said: “Absolutely”………(waited for the guy to look pleased about his brilliant plan).
Then he added “But not for this company.”

 

[Pirate Lady]

Docs use robotics now and virtual office visits, I am waiting for virtual surgeries.

I am in IT, Software Development specifically, remote work works well for this industry. In fact good luck finding a developer who will come into an office now. I rarely met any of my offshore resources at previous companies so it's really not all that different IMO.

Before I retired, software developer for CSX, on my team, we had people in …
Jacksonville Florida
Baltimore maryland
Manhattan Island NY
Chicago
Seattle
Savannah
Atlanta
India
Dallas
And it worked perfect; still does; just not as perfect as when I was there. Probably gone to hell by now.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Agree to disagree, I've worked with offshore development models at many companies, it doesn't work, the resources need to be on shore and ideally in the same time zone.

 

[El Capitan]

Spent 35 years in health tech, sales, traveled all over the globe. Not as glamorous as it sounds especially in LATAM, and the Nordics.
Developers rule the world...that is until AI develops sw instead of humans.

I left healthcare 6 mos into Covid. Better yet, healthcare left me. I would not take the vaccine and most hospitals required it to walk in their doors. I was SVP of the company and disagreed with the change of direction the company wanted to take, which was develop contact tracing apps for smart phones we would sell to employers and payers. F that. I wasn't about to sponsor something I would never use.

I fell into my second passion which is cars. I now sell products to automotive dealerships and independent shops. I enjoy this work. Very easy, non stressful, half the money I used to make, but 100% sales from my home and on the road.

I recommend making the change.

 

[Stee6043]

Agree to disagree, I've worked with offshore development models at many companies, it doesn't work, the resources need to be on shore and ideally in the same time zone.

There's something quite nice about sending an email request at 5PM and having a response, with complete resolution, in your inbox before getting back into work the next day

 

[mrsrobinson]

There's something quite nice about sending an email request at 5PM and having a response, with complete resolution, in your inbox before getting back into work the next day

I do not disagree with this, the rare time it happens. The communication barrier usually means 5-10 more back and forth replies, though. Which you don't get until the/their next day sometimes. Or "lets have a quick call on that.." " Oh, India is in bed"

 

[b_arrington]

It'll be interesting to see us having these conversations 10-15 years from now. If a job can be done full-remote, there's no reason for that job to exist anywhere other than the low cost regions of the world. The folks so passionate about the benefits of working remote seem blind to the fact that they are, at this very moment, building the business case to offshore every one of their jobs.

If/when big companies lose in their push to force people back into the office, there will be a reckoning. It'll almost certainly start with those of you living in the higher cost regions of the country.

It's better to be seen, repeatedly

I'm not sure it's going to be as stark as this.

I'll make some generalizations.

• Companies typically want the best person for the job.
• Remote work opens up the hiring opportunities to find better candidates in more areas.
• A full-remote job is often higher up on the skill/knowledge/education scale.
• Education is a massive competitive advantage, both for the individual and the business.
• Areas that are higher cost often also have stronger/more rigorous education system that produces potentially more skilled/educated employees. (again, broad generalization).
• Big differences in time zones still matter; it's far harder to collaborate with big differences.

With the above, I think it's in many ways improving company's ability to compete by having opening the labor market to new areas without the need for people to move. Similarly it opened the market to many companies for me to work for. I would not have been able to move out of New York for my new job, which is headquartered in PA. That's because my kids are in high school, my older inlaw that we help are here, and my wife's specialist doctors are here. I think the "higher cost"

People used to move around for jobs far more than they do today. The US population has slowly been becoming less mobile. I think the remote work situation might actually increase population shifts and allow people to live where they want and not where they have to for work. Strength of education systems are likely going to be part of that equation for people's kids. For example, New Mexico and Louisiana are ranked the worst 2 states for education; they have low costs but I'm not moving there. Massachusetts is high cost, but ranked no. 1 in education. The like 20+ colleges in Boston pumps out lots of smart people that stay in the area for opportunities and connections.

 

[Stee6043]

I'm not sure it's going to be as stark as this.

I'll make some generalizations.

• Companies typically want the best person for the job.
• Remote work opens up the hiring opportunities to find better candidates in more areas.
• A full-remote job is often higher up on the skill/knowledge/education scale.
• Education is a massive competitive advantage, both for the individual and the business.
• Areas that are higher cost often also have stronger/more rigorous education system that produces potentially more skilled/educated employees. (again, broad generalization).
• Big differences in time zones still matter; it's far harder to collaborate with big differences.

With the above, I think it's in many ways improving company's ability to compete by having opening the labor market to new areas without the need for people to move. Similarly it opened the market to many companies for me to work for. I would not have been able to move out of New York for my new job, which is headquartered in PA. That's because my kids are in high school, my older inlaw that we help are here, and my wife's specialist doctors are here. I think the "higher cost"

People used to move around for jobs far more than they do today. The US population has slowly been becoming less mobile. I think the remote work situation might actually increase population shifts and allow people to live where they want and not where they have to for work. Strength of education systems are likely going to be part of that equation for people's kids. For example, New Mexico and Louisiana are ranked the worst 2 states for education; they have low costs but I'm not moving there. Massachusetts is high cost, but ranked no. 1 in education. The like 20+ colleges in Boston pumps out lots of smart people that stay in the area for opportunities and connections.

I appreciate your optimism. And for my kids sake, I hope you're right. Let's reconvene after the impending meltdown of commercial real estate. I just think the labor market is going to look a lot more global when those seats to fill are no longer physically there...

 

[b_arrington]

I appreciate your optimism. And for my kids sake, I hope you're right. Let's reconvene after the impending meltdown of commercial real estate. I just think the labor market is going to look a lot more global when those seats to fill are no longer physically there...

There's still a pretty serious housing shortage in many areas. Perhaps some of that commercial space can/will be converted to residential. I know there are differences in rents, economics, etc for residential vs. commercial.

 

[mrsrobinson]

I've hired a couple kids out of college during this remote world, that's what's odd to me. They may never experience what it's like to work in an office.

At least in my field this is here to stay, and like others have said it's allowed me to find talent I couldn't find locally. For example I needed senior C++ developers at my last company, there were none passing the interviews locally. I convinced HR to let me open it up to remote, found two amazing resources quickly. We hired a developer on the west coast as well to support a client on the west coast, even though corporate was based on the East Coast. He agreed to work East Coast hours though.

Coincidentally that's exactly how I got my current job, they weren't finding qualified folks in their market, offered it fully remote and found me.

 

[b_arrington]

I appreciate your optimism. And for my kids sake, I hope you're right. Let's reconvene after the impending meltdown of commercial real estate. I just think the labor market is going to look a lot more global when those seats to fill are no longer physically there...

To make a counterpoint to my own argument, my wife does NOT want to stay in NY forever. It is getting very expensive and the state is doing stupid stuff. My son is fascinated with the geography of the western part of the country. My wife said when the kids are out of school we are likely to look at where ever they end up and move to be close to them. With my remote job that makes it much more of a reality than before. By the time my kids are done with college in 9 years I likely will not need to be worried about taking care of my inlaws.

The flip side is with all the political changes in various various states it maybe hard to find a place where we would feel comfortable. We're very much in the middle and don't like the crap happening on either end of the spectrum. (I'm NOT trying to make this political!!).

 

[jmauld]

I couldn’t do it and not sure how companies do it….. I have one remote employee and he can’t really get a feel of what’s going on. I just couldn’t imagine having a team offsite

My team is 100% remote. I have one employee that goes into the office as he needs. I think because he needs to get away from his wife & kids who are also home all of the time.
It’s a new world but we do consulting for other companies so we are always operating “remotely”. No reason to have them sitting in a cube farm. I don’t have any employees that have a problem hitting their revenue targets.

 

[techmitch]

My team is 100% remote. I have one employee that goes into the office as he needs. I think because he needs to get away from his wife & kids who are also home all of the time.
It’s a new world but we do consulting for other companies so we are always operating “remotely”. No reason to have them sitting in a cube farm. I don’t have any employees that have a problem hitting their revenue targets.

Their targets are too low.

 

[jmauld]

I've hired a couple kids out of college during this remote world, that's what's odd to me. They may never experience what it's like to work in an office.

At least in my field this is here to stay, and like others have said it's allowed me to find talent I couldn't find locally. For example I needed senior C++ developers at my last company, there were none passing the interviews locally. I convinced HR to let me open it up to remote, found two amazing resources quickly. We hired a developer on the west coast as well to support a client on the west coast, even though corporate was based on the East Coast. He agreed to work East Coast hours though.

Coincidentally that's exactly how I got my current job, they weren't finding qualified folks in their market, offered it fully remote and found me.

So this is a scenario that I haven’t dealt with yet. My team is all senior staff and are capable of training themselves. We are currently in need of entry level staff to handle some of the more mundane tasks and report writing.
How have you been training college kids remotely? I’m thinking that they will get assigned a direct mentor and going with that approach.

 

[jmauld]

Their targets are too low.

They have a low minimum target that will get them a 2% quarterly bonus and keeps them from being fired.
If they triple that target they get a 18% quarterly bonus. And it’s weighted anywhere between those two points. Most of them are averaging around 8-12% each quarter.

 

[mrsrobinson]

So this is a scenario that I haven’t dealt with yet. My team is all senior staff and are capable of training themselves. We are currently in need of entry level staff to handle some of the more mundane tasks and report writing.
How have you been training college kids remotely? I’m thinking that they will get assigned a direct mentor and going with that approach.

Yep, I pair them up with my senior folks and my leads. So far so good.

I also work hard to keep them engaged, do team building events, lunch and learns and such.