Guns on your boat

dwna1a said:
Blue it changed for me when I looked at the pepper gun, for me it looks much to real. As I said it looks like a Glock or my Sig. Granted the pepper gun would get the first shot but the next shot wouldn't be pepper. I can't remember the movie but "don't bring a knife to a gun fight"
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"The Untouchables" Good Movie
Carry on
 
Blueone said:
“Trained police hit their targets less than 30 percent of the time
This is my point... I could care less if you bought a gun or a pepper ball shooter
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That’s why I don’t understand why police don’t use lasers. I have a couple pistols with lasers and they are dead on.
 
Not to get too far off track here, but I just realized today is the anniversary of the worst day in FBI history. A felony car stop that went horribly wrong in Dade county Florida resulted in the most studied law enforcement shootout scenario of the time. Maybe still is. It was after we had gotten our carry permits and a defense course instructor that my wife and I were working with made us study it in depth for a number of reasons.
Interestingly, it was this tragedy that inspired the FBI to look into the 10mm as their duty guns, but after it was deemed to be a little more than most people could handle, the 40 was born (10mm with less bang). Should be able to find plenty about it on line if interested.
 
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Maggieiscrazy said:
That’s why I don’t understand why police don’t use lasers. I have a couple pistols with lasers and they are dead on.
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Most police shooting incidents are defensive where the target is either shooting at the police or trying to kill them with another type of weapon, i.e. advancing while swinging a knife, axe, bat, etc..
They usually take place within a couple of feet.
Things generally happen very fast. Conditions often change unexpectedly and incidents are over in seconds.
Most cops fire instinctively without aiming and very often don’t even know how many rounds they fired until their weapon is inspected afterwards.
While learning sight alignment while shooting at targets is a valuable training tool, muscle memory developed in training kicks in way more often than taking aim in those highly stressful split second incidents.
Being trained to focus on a laser would likely be counterproductive.
It would be fantastic if all cops could be marksman at a range while shooting at either stationary or moving targets, but the game changes completely when a live target is shooting at them from a few feet away and they have no cover or concealment.
Additionally, a police officer’s weapon is a tool that hangs on a belt rather than stored in a protected case.
It gets banged around and is subjected to all the elements and environmental conditions that the cop is subject to over the course of years.
How well would a laser stand up to those real world conditions and what would happen if it didn’t work when a cop who was trained to depend on it needed it?
While I’ve never been a firearms instructor, I have many years of real world street experience.
Additionally, I’ve been involved in scores of police involved shooting investigations. I started out responding to scenes to represent cops involved in shootings, and later in my career conducted and reviewed investigations at command level ranks.
IMHO: The simpler a patrol cop’s weapon is, the better.
 
JVM225 said:
While learning sight alignment while shooting at targets is a valuable training tool, muscle memory developed in training kicks in way more often than taking aim in those highly stressful split second incidents.

IMHO: The simpler a patrol cop’s weapon is, the better.
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Your comment about muscle memory is spot on. I was a firearms instructor for many years and used to take guys one-on-one to the range to do some very unusual practice.

We would walk through the desert (me behind him) and I'd have him pick a target on the ground, often the base of a desert plant, a stick, etc. Then I'd have him see how quickly he could draw from a snapped holster, fire and hit the target. One hand, strong hand, no sights, fire from the hip just as soon as he cleared the holster.

At first guys couldn't hit worth a tinker's damn. But after awhile as they started to develop that muscle memory and learn to hit where they were looking, they caught on. Then we'd move back to the range and, using a silhouette target turned backwards (nothing but blank paper) I'd draw about a 1" circle with a sharpie.

We'd start about 3 yards from the target. I'd have them focus on the circle then on my command draw and fire. Then we'd move back to 7 yards and do it all over again. It was surprising how, after a few hours of practice many could snap draw and hit within a couple of inches of that circle.

In my own shooting situation, it was a distance of about 41 feet, up a slight slope, after dark, but still a snap shot without using sights and it worked. 1 and done. Practice Makes Perfect.

As to your comment about keeping it simple, that's the K-I-S-S program.. Keep It Simple Stupid.
 
dwna1a said:
I remembered what a NNPD officer told me, just the sound of a shotgun racking a shell is enough for anyone to stop and think. So I stood next to the back door and dry racked the gun, that's all it took.
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Funny you should say that... I said the same in a similar thread here many years ago. Mike (@Gofirstclass ) scolded me and quickly said that only happens in the movies (or something to that effect anyway). :)
 
I hope there is merit to the "racking" sound. A short barreled Rem 870 is what usually is my defense gun for the boat (and the house) and I hope that if the need ever arises, the sound of jacking that first round into the chamber will be enough.
The handguns are just for when I'm out and about. I'd look silly carrying a shotgun around town.
 
JimG said:
Funny you should say that... I said the same in a similar thread here many years ago. Mike (@Gofirstclass ) scolded me and quickly said that only happens in the movies (or something to that effect anyway). :)
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WHO ME???? If I did then I'll severely chastise myself and give myself 1,000 lashes with a wet noodle.

Many years ago I was checking out a business alarm. We knew someone had entered the building because we saw things turned over, drawers open, etc. We searched the main floor then went to the basement which was a MESS of empty and full cardboard boxes and just junk all over the place. Going on a hunch, I yelled out "OK, I can see where you are. Come out with your hands up or I'm gonna blow your ass away", then racked the shotgun.

The bad guy was hiding at about my 9 o'clock position and jumped up so fast it scared both of us cops. I had no idea he was there and had just tried a trick. It worked, he jumped about 10' in the air and was white as a ghost.

So Jim, if I did scold you it must have been in a moment of temporary insanity and I apologize.
 
Gofirstclass said:
WHO ME???? If I did then I'll severely chastise myself and give myself 1,000 lashes with a wet noodle.

Many years ago I was checking out a business alarm. We knew someone had entered the building because we saw things turned over, drawers open, etc. We searched the main floor then went to the basement which was a MESS of empty and full cardboard boxes and just junk all over the place. Going on a hunch, I yelled out "OK, I can see where you are. Come out with your hands up or I'm gonna blow your ass away", then racked the shotgun.

The bad guy was hiding at about my 9 o'clock position and jumped up so fast it scared both of us cops. I had no idea he was there and had just tried a trick. It worked, he jumped about 10' in the air and was white as a ghost.

So Jim, if I did scold you it must have been in a moment of temporary insanity and I apologize.
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No worries mate! I always enjoy your contribution and insight! Throttles forward!
 
my3sons said:
I hope there is merit to the "racking" sound. A short barreled Rem 870 is what usually is my defense gun for the boat (and the house) and I hope that if the need ever arises, the sound of jacking that first round into the chamber will be enough.
The handguns are just for when I'm out and about. I'd look silly carrying a shotgun around town.
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Silly?....No, no, no.
Intimidating? Yes.
Crazy? Maybe.
On the edge? Maybe.
Impressive? Yes.
Beauty is in the eye of the other gun lovers!!! :)
 
:D:DYou guys must have some awfully noisy pump shotguns. If I'm 'racking' away inside my house there ain't nobody outside that's going to hear it. Maybe I got mine oiled up to good.:p

Me....I'm going to have a shell in the chamber, I'm not going to waste time 'racking' anything when I should be shooting. If in a sense of fairness an audio warning is desired I'm going with 'Get the F outa here or you're going to get shot MF'er'.
 
A big mistake peeps make is projecting their value system on a criminal. Criminals don't think and make rational decisions and they certainly don't have the same value system. So, don't rely on the racking sound of a pump shotgun to scare criminals away because it would scare you. The criminals may not be impressed or could be under the influence.
 
mmmm.. I don't know. I've been told that I don't always make rational decisions and I'm thinking that if I were about to break into somebody's house or boat and I heard that sound, if there was any gunfire at all, it would be me getting shot in the back.
 
LTD.330 said:
A big mistake peeps make is projecting their value system on a criminal. Criminals don't think and make rational decisions and they certainly don't have the same value system. So, don't rely on the racking sound of a pump shotgun to scare criminals away because it would scare you. The criminals may not be impressed or could be under the influence.
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Or take the first shot.
 
my3sons said:
mmmm.. I don't know. I've been told that I don't always make rational decisions and I'm thinking that if I were about to break into somebody's house or boat and I heard that sound, if there was any gunfire at all, it would be me getting shot in the back.
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I'm thinking 'if' you heard the 'racking' it would be the same reaction as any other sound from within or a bunch of lights coming on...shit, someone is home, run.
 
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