Generating trouble with Stray Current

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Now that you mention it with the bent oxygen sensor, I did have another Cummins with a 2.4 Mitsubishi engine giving me random oxygen sensor codes. I replaced it already, and the issue hasn’t returned but I wonder if moisture got into the element
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When you’re on site for maintenance, and the customer comes out in informs you they’ve seen an alligator and a bear on the property within the last hour. Only Florida

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And then this guy shows up at the third job of the day
 
Just starting to consider backup power. ~3K sqft house, gas service to the house and already in use for heating and water heater. 4 ton AC. Electrical seems pretty simple with one main panel and another smaller panel in the same place looking like it was added on.
A couple of questions:
- What would a very basic system look like and rough cost? Just enough to keep a couple of fridges and freezers running, lights and computer, TV, heat if winter.
- Then the full monte running everything, what is likely to change and rough cost delta? Is is just the incremental cost of a bigger generator or do other factors kick in as the scale goes up?

Any tips for finding a good dealer/installer and what to base comparisons between pitches? Generac seems to dominate the local area, at least in terms of advertising.
 
Have a 24KW Generac that auto runs every two weeks with no load. I do a manual start once a month and load it for about 15 minutes. Would you recommend a different schedule or is that adequate?
 
alnav said:
Just starting to consider backup power. ~3K sqft house, gas service to the house and already in use for heating and water heater. 4 ton AC. Electrical seems pretty simple with one main panel and another smaller panel in the same place looking like it was added on.
A couple of questions:
- What would a very basic system look like and rough cost? Just enough to keep a couple of fridges and freezers running, lights and computer, TV, heat if winter.
- Then the full monte running everything, what is likely to change and rough cost delta? Is is just the incremental cost of a bigger generator or do other factors kick in as the scale goes up?

Any tips for finding a good dealer/installer and what to base comparisons between pitches? Generac seems to dominate the local area, at least in terms of advertising.
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Without a site visit to perform a load calculation and do at least a cursory layout, I couldn’t even begin with pricing. I’ve been totally out of estimating and sales since I left Jersey for Florida in 2021. Pricing on everything is way higher now. Your local jurisdiction permitting fees and HOA fees can vary widely as well. I’ll see if I can upload a blank template of my load calculations sheet for you to fill out.

Im going under the assumption that you have a somewhat standard house. You state that gas is used for heat and water heating. Are you also using a gas dryer and gas for cooking?
Do you have:
Pool?
Hot Tub?
Pool heat pump?
Gas pool heater?
EV charging?
Well pump?
Lift station?

There are a lot of considerations for sizing. Realistically if you’re in an air cooled size, the installation cost isn’t much different for a critical circuit vs managed whole house. Gas is similar, electric runs are similar. Smaller gen costs less but there is more labor and components to separate the critical circuits into a gen panel.

A good generator company can set you up with load management to maximize the performance of a smaller machine. I used to get a lot of house out of a 20 up north with smart management and all gas homes.
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I’d try to stick with Kohler or Cummins. In the air cooled range Kohler is by far my favorite from a quality, reliability and serviceability standpoint. They're the only brand of air cooled unit in the 20-26kW range with hydraulic lifters that never need valve lash adjustment. Generac does have hydraulic lifters in their 816cc motor found in the newer 14 and 18kW machines. The 22,24,26 Generac 999cc require valve lash adjustment at 25 hours and every 100 thereafter er the manual. The Cummins C13/C17/C20 have a 400 hour interval on valve lash
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This is an older sheet comparing 20s. Both brands still use the same engines in the 20-26 range

Kohler also has the easiest access to the brushes and slip rings for cleaning and inspection at the annual service. Three minutes to access versus 90 minutes of disassembly.
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Ultimately your dealer of choice has the greatest impact on your outcome. A properly designed and sized install (including gas piping) with competent maintenance is 80% of your determination of reliability. If you want to shoot me a PM with the town you would like to install the unit, I can speak with people on the dealer forum that I am a member of and see if I can make a solid recommendation for a company.


fr8dog said:
Have a 24KW Generac that auto runs every two weeks with no load. I do a manual start once a month and load it for about 15 minutes. Would you recommend a different schedule or is that adequate?
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I really dislike the fact that you can only run a five minute exercise with the generac evolution units. Ordinarily, I set my customers to do so once a week.

The fact that you are running a loaded test once a month is excellent. I would maybe stretch it closer to 20 or 30 minutes. The biggest thing that kills residential standby units is moisture. By loading it up you’re heating up the alternator to drive any moisture out of the windings. If you can keep the grass clippings and debris that holds moisture out of that unit, load it once a month, and stay on your maintenance, it will give you a good long service life. Since they are not practical to access the brushes at every service, make sure you have the slip rings inspected/cleaned around the 250 hour mark. As they are cheap, replace the brushes while it is disassembled.
 
Stray Current said:
Without a site visit to perform a load calculation and do at least a cursory layout, I couldn’t even begin with pricing. I’ve been totally out of estimating and sales since I left Jersey for Florida in 2021. Pricing on everything is way higher now. Your local jurisdiction permitting fees and HOA fees can vary widely as well. I’ll see if I can upload a blank template of my load calculations sheet for you to fill out.

Im going under the assumption that you have a somewhat standard house. You state that gas is used for heat and water heating. Are you also using a gas dryer and gas for cooking?
Do you have:
Pool?
Hot Tub?
Pool heat pump?
Gas pool heater?
EV charging?
Well pump?
Lift station?

There are a lot of considerations for sizing. Realistically if you’re in an air cooled size, the installation cost isn’t much different for a critical circuit vs managed whole house. Gas is similar, electric runs are similar. Smaller gen costs less but there is more labor and components to separate the critical circuits into a gen panel.

A good generator company can set you up with load management to maximize the performance of a smaller machine. I used to get a lot of house out of a 20 up north with smart management and all gas homes.View attachment 151795View attachment 151796
I’d try to stick with Kohler or Cummins. In the air cooled range Kohler is by far my favorite from a quality, reliability and serviceability standpoint. They're the only brand of air cooled unit in the 20-26kW range with hydraulic lifters that never need valve lash adjustment. Generac does have hydraulic lifters in their 816cc motor found in the newer 14 and 18kW machines. The 22,24,26 Generac 999cc require valve lash adjustment at 25 hours and every 100 thereafter er the manual. The Cummins C13/C17/C20 have a 400 hour interval on valve lash
View attachment 151797
This is an older sheet comparing 20s. Both brands still use the same engines in the 20-26 range

Kohler also has the easiest access to the brushes and slip rings for cleaning and inspection at the annual service. Three minutes to access versus 90 minutes of disassembly.
View attachment 151798View attachment 151799View attachment 151800

Ultimately your dealer of choice has the greatest impact on your outcome. A properly designed and sized install (including gas piping) with competent maintenance is 80% of your determination of reliability. If you want to shoot me a PM with the town you would like to install the unit, I can speak with people on the dealer forum that I am a member of and see if I can make a solid recommendation for a company.



I really dislike the fact that you can only run a five minute exercise with the generac evolution units. Ordinarily, I set my customers to do so once a week.

The fact that you are running a loaded test once a month is excellent. I would maybe stretch it closer to 20 or 30 minutes. The biggest thing that kills residential standby units is moisture. By loading it up you’re heating up the alternator to drive any moisture out of the windings. If you can keep the grass clippings and debris that holds moisture out of that unit, load it once a month, and stay on your maintenance, it will give you a good long service life. Since they are not practical to access the brushes at every service, make sure you have the slip rings inspected/cleaned around the 250 hour mark. As they are cheap, replace the brushes while it is disassembled.
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Where is that install at? Can't have exposed romex and cabling in Fl. Canada you can but they are weirder yet with breaker panels installed sideways.
 
ttmott said:
Where is that install at? Can't have exposed romex and cabling in Fl. Canada you can but they are weirder yet with breaker panels installed sideways.
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That particular installation was a retrofit in New Jersey. Exposed NM stapled to the board running to the panels was existing when I came and added my transfer switches. I think that home was built in 1996 or seven if memory serves.

Down here we put everything in a trough and bring it to the panel in pipe or fabricate a sheet metal cover that goes from the ceiling to the top of the panel

Are you in the trade? You definitely know your stuff!
 
Stray Current said:
That particular installation was a retrofit in New Jersey. Exposed NM stapled to the board running to the panels was existing when I came and added my transfer switches. I think that home was built in 1996 or seven if memory serves.

Down here we put everything in a trough and bring it to the panel in pipe or fabricate a sheet metal cover that goes from the ceiling to the top of the panel

Are you in the trade? You definitely know your stuff!
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Owned an engineering firm. All commercial /aerospace but had to know the codes.
 
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Ant piss will do thousands of dollars worth of damage to electronics in short order
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470 hours on Sanibel Island from the Ian outage with no valve lash adjustment
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highslice said:
So, new engine? Different topic, how is the causeway rebuild coming?
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Yep new engine due to metal fragments.

It’s honestly heartbreaking. We spent our first wedding anniversary here grilling, and watching the sunset over Matlacha pass backed right up to the water with the suv. They were already going to re-develop that whole area into something different but I’m afraid it’s going to be worse than they were planning now
Nater Potater said:
How often should you be adjusting the valves on that engine?
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Per the manual, the spec is the initial 25 hours and every hundred thereafter on the 416, 530, 992 and 999 cc

The 816 found in the newer 14,16,18 kw units does have hydraulic lifters.

Every Kohler since the dawn of time with the horizontal shaft has hydraulic lifters. The vertical Kohler RESV models do have a 250 hour interval for valve lash.
 
Stray Current said:
Yep new engine due to metal fragments.

It’s honestly heartbreaking. We spent our first wedding anniversary here grilling, and watching the sunset over Matlacha pass backed right up to the water with the suv. They were already going to re-develop that whole area into something different but I’m afraid it’s going to be worse than they were planning now


Per Generac, the spec is the initial 25 hours and every hundred thereafter on the 416, 530, 992 and 999 cc

The 816 found in the newer 14,16,18 kw units does have hydraulic lifters.

Every Kohler since the dawn of time with the horizontal shaft has hydraulic lifters. The vertical Kohler RESV models do have a 250 hour interval for valve lash.
Click to expand...
Sorry, meant the Sanibel causeway.
 
Stray Current said:
I know. The Sanibel causeway spot we liked looked north up the pass
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Ahh, gotcha. That's too bad. But I see one of my favorites on the islands, The Green Flash, has reopened. And it looks like The Bubble Room is working it's way there. But I am afraid others that we loved will never reopen. Sad. Back to the regular scheduled programming. Sorry for the hijack.

Back on track...I have talked the Admiral into at least getting bids for a whole house backup. Probably need 24K with management. I will steer clear of Genrac now though.
 
highslice said:
Ahh, gotcha. That's too bad. But I see one of my favorites on the islands, The Green Flash, has reopened. And it looks like The Bubble Room is working it's way there. But I am afraid others that we loved will never reopen. Sad. Back to the regular scheduled programming. Sorry for the hijack.

Back on track...I have talked the Admiral into at least getting bids for a whole house backup. Probably need 24K with management. I will steer clear of Genrac now though.
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Nothing wrong with a little sidebar here and there. The green flash has re-opened. I’ve still never been there, but I hear it’s back. I also hear the bubble room is making progress. The Taqueria that used to be 400 rabbits at rabbit road is gone and it has been replaced by Rosalita’s Cantina. Mrs. current and I enjoy that place very much.

The mucky duck has reopened, and they’re just as good as they ever were. We’re looking forward to the Island Cow reopening which was damaged by fire before Ian. I want to try mudbugs Cajun restaurant.

I’m working on repairing and installing more systems in Sanibel and captiva. It is coming back but the corporate money flowing in is going to make big changes and not for the better.

A Kohler 26 may be the answer for you depending on your home. How many square and do you have natural gas or LP already? Any existing gas appliances?

Well?
Septic lift?
Ev charging?
 
Stray Current said:
Nothing wrong with a little sidebar here and there. The green flash has re-opened. I’ve still never been there, but I hear it’s back. I also hear the bubble room is making progress. The Taqueria that used to be 400 rabbits at rabbit road is gone and it has been replaced by Rosalita’s Cantina. Mrs. current and I enjoy that place very much.

The mucky duck has reopened, and they’re just as good as they ever were. We’re looking forward to the Island Cow reopening which was damaged by fire before Ian. I want to try mudbugs Cajun restaurant.

I’m working on repairing and installing more systems in Sanibel and captiva. It is coming back but the corporate money flowing in is going to make big changes and not for the better.

A Kohler 26 may be the answer for you depending on your home. How many square and do you have natural gas or LP already? Any existing gas appliances?

Well?
Septic lift?
Ev charging?
Click to expand...
Always liked the Timbers. Glad to hear Island Cow is coming back. For whatever reason, we never went to the Mucky Duck.

We have about 2,800 sq. ft. Furnace and water heater are gas, all other appliances are electric. No well or septic. EV, ah never.
 
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Somebody put a whole lotta thought into being this wrong. The crazy things I see on off grid islands…
 
I have a kohler 8.5 rmy thats been behind my house for 15yrs, maybe more. Ive never done anything to it outside of normal maintenance and it has never given me an issue. It is getting long in the tooth and im thinking of upgrading it in the spring. Kohler 10RESV was what i was looking at. Any disadvantage of going with a vertical shaft setup over horizontal or is it just for a smaller footprint?
 
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