Generating trouble with Stray Current

[Stray Current]

By semi popular demand, the generator Q&A space with yours truly. I am a licensed electrician and technician, certified with Kohler, Cummins and Generac. I’ll be certifying with Briggs this fall.

This is your place to ask all things backup power! I’ll give you the answers you need despite what you want to hear.

I am NOT a marine/diesel generator specialist, I work on LP/CNG residential and light commercial sets primarily. I’ll help you with your marine set anyway I can though

 

[Eluther3]

I'll start
I am having an issue with my AC running on the generator. Runs fine on shore power, but when I run it on generator, the fan will run but the compressor will kick off. Is that a generator issue?

 

[Stray Current]

I'll start
I am having an issue with my AC running on the generator. Runs fine on shore power, but when I run it on generator, the fan will run but the compressor will kick off. Is that a generator issue?

The first thing you need is a voltage and frequency reading. An inrush amperage reading on shore power would be helpful as well.Anything before that is a guess.

Does it try to start and kick out? Does the generator bog down? This one could be an issue with either piece of equipment.

 

[keokie]

I am very interested in having at least some level of backup power at my home. I have natural gas at the curb, but not at my home. It would be a long run 100 plus feet and under a driveway, so very likely cost prohibitive. I have reached out to the gas company twice for a quote and they didn't get back to me either time. I've thought about propane, but not crazy about that for a few reasons (aesthetics, getting tank(s) filled, etc. I've even wondered about just one or two big gasoline powered portable generacs wired to plug into my panel.

I'm not at all looking to power the whole house, but I would prefer to wire into the main panel. I would like the ability to run at least one AC at a time (I have a 5 ton and 4 ton for the house, and a 5 ton in the garage which is far less critical), plus a couple big fridges and some lights, etc. And the ability to shut other stuff off and run a microwave/stove/washing machine, etc.

Main panel is a new 200 amp solar-ready panel with a ton of space. I have a good friend who is a very competent and skilled electrician who helps me.

I'd be very curious as to your thoughts and recommendations.

 

[Chris-380]

By semi popular demand, the generator Q&A space with yours truly. I am a licensed electrician and technician, certified with Kohler, Cummins and Generac. I’ll be certifying with Briggs this fall.

This is your place to ask all things backup power! I’ll give you the answers you need despite what you want to hear.

I am NOT a marine/diesel generator specialist, I work on LP/CNG residential and light commercial sets primarily. I’ll help you with your marine set anyway I can though

What test did you take to be licensed. Some places that’s a big deal, others it makes no difference

 

[Stray Current]

I am very interested in having at least some level of backup power at my home. I have natural gas at the curb, but not at my home. It would be a long run 100 plus feet and under a driveway, so very likely cost prohibitive. I have reached out to the gas company twice for a quote and they didn't get back to me either time. I've thought about propane, but not crazy about that for a few reasons (aesthetics, getting tank(s) filled, etc. I've even wondered about just one or two big gasoline powered portable generacs wired to plug into my panel.

I'm not at all looking to power the whole house, but I would prefer to wire into the main panel. I would like the ability to run at least one AC at a time (I have a 5 ton and 4 ton for the house, and a 5 ton in the garage which is far less critical), plus a couple big fridges and some lights, etc. And the ability to shut other stuff off and run a microwave/stove/washing machine, etc.

Main panel is a new 200 amp solar-ready panel with a ton of space. I have a good friend who is a very competent and skilled electrician who helps me.

I'd be very curious as to your thoughts and recommendations.

There’s quite a few different options for you. A good mole boring contractor could get that gas line to the side of your house with only a couple of 3 x 3 holes dug in your property. We do that often with gas lines and conduit to get under the driveway.

One of the nice things about a propane tank underground is the fuel is stable for a very long time, and it’s on site instead of depending on the utility. After Sandy in Jersey, they shut natural gas off in a lot of places where meters were compromised.

Since you don’t have propane or natural gas on site, I’m assuming your house is all electric, including the heat?

If you went with an automatic system, it would either have to be able to manage or carry everything.

If you went with a big portable, it wouldn’t need load management, but you also wouldn’t be able to use two of them on the same panel. If you had separate panels with separate inlets and interlocks, you could use more than one.

What test did you take to be licensed. Some places that’s a big deal, others it makes no difference

I went through the IBEW apprenticeship in Jersey and got my journeyman license that way

I really need to get off my ass and get my Florida unlimited electrical contractors license so that I can actually run a business. Definitely going to need a refresher course

 

[dmorris800]

I have a westerbeke 7.5 KW genny (gas). It is capacitor excited and I seem to loose / replace the execitor or large capacitors yearly. I was chalking this up to load / heat since the boat and I live in sunny Texas. Is this normal in warm climates or should I be looking elsewhere?

Thank’s for your time

 

[Stray Current]

I have a westerbeke 7.5 KW genny. It is capacitor excited and I seem to loose / replace the capacitors yearly. I was chalking this up to load / heat since the boat and I live in sunny Texas. Is this normal in warm climates or should I be looking elsewhere?

Thank’s for your time

So again, I’m not really a marine guy specifically, and I’ve only ever touched one Westerbeke for a friend, and that was just for a pump

I can tell you for certain that that capacitors don’t like heat, and all of the capacitor regulated units that I tend to down here in Florida seem to eat them much faster than the ones I dealt with in New Jersey.

If you can find American made capacitors, you’ll be better off than the cheap Chinese units but if you are using OEM components, that’s probably as good as it’s going to get.

What kind of load are you running on it? It may be worth ohming out the windings to see if something is on the way out. Do you have a service manual for it?

 

[Chris-380]

There’s quite a few different options for you. A good mole boring contractor could get that gas line to the side of your house with only a couple of 3 x 3 holes dug in your property. We do that often with gas lines and conduit to get under the driveway.

One of the nice things about a propane tank underground is the fuel is stable for a very long time, and it’s on site instead of depending on the utility. After Sandy in Jersey, they shut natural gas off in a lot of places where meters were compromised.

Since you don’t have propane or natural gas on site, I’m assuming your house is all electric, including the heat?

If you went with an automatic system, it would either have to be able to manage or carry everything.

If you went with a big portable, it wouldn’t need load management, but you also wouldn’t be able to use two of them on the same panel. If you had separate panels with separate inlets and interlocks, you could use more than one.

I went through the IBEW apprenticeship in Jersey and got my journeyman license that way

I really need to get off my ass and get my Florida unlimited electrical contractors license so that I can actually run a business. Definitely going to need a refresher course

Cool, I am out of local 309, east St. Louis IL

 

[OllieC]

Good timing.

I am looking at adding an interlock kit to my panel at home. I’ll have to add a couple 2 pole breakers in my 200 amp panel for space, then I was thinking of adding a 50 amp breaker to a 50 amp outlet.

My heating and air guy says he can tap off of the propane entering my utility room (outside) and add a connection, but needs to know the BTUs so the portable genny (dual fuel) doesn’t eat up all the propane and not power the boiler. He thinks the line is large enough, but he needs that info. I’m having difficulty find that from the portable generator that I’m looking at purchasing.

I am looking at a Dual Fuel (propane 12350 peak 9975 running) portable generator. The items I’d like to run are, boiler w/exhaust fan, fridge, freezer, lift pump, water pump, and some lights. Optional: wood fireplace insert blower. Do you think that’s enough power?

I’d like to get a standby generator, and actually looked at the smaller Briggs, but I envision a hefty electrician bill trying to access my panel between the service entry and utility room.

 

[Stray Current]

Good timing.

I am looking at adding an interlock kit to my panel at home. I’ll have to add a couple 2 pole breakers in my 200 amp panel for space, then I was thinking of adding a 50 amp breaker to a 50 amp outlet.

My heating and air guy says he can tap off of the propane entering my utility room (outside) and add a connection, but needs to know the BTUs so the portable genny (dual fuel) doesn’t eat up all the propane and not power the boiler. He thinks the line is large enough, but he needs that info. I’m having difficulty find that from the portable generator that I’m looking at purchasing.

I am looking at a Dual Fuel (propane 12350 peak 9975 running) portable generator. The items I’d like to run are, boiler w/exhaust fan, fridge, freezer, lift pump, water pump, and some lights. Optional: wood fireplace insert blower. Do you think that’s enough power?

I’d like to get a standby generator, and actually looked at the smaller Briggs, but I envision a hefty electrician bill trying to access my panel between the service entry and utility room.

There are a lot of variables On the gas system. It all depends on the size of what’s feeding it and where it originates. You might have a three-quarter poly coming directly from your first stage regulator at the tank, running 10 psi to a second stage 1.1 million and then coming directly inside. You might have an insufficient half inch copper line snaked through the house from the 70s. Without putting eyes on it I wouldn’t even begin to be able to tell you, but generally I like generator having a dedicated line.

80 percent of the problems I encounter are the result of a jack ass gasfitter feeding a 22 or 24 kW generator 12 kW worth of gas. They’ve been doing it that way for 30 years and they know better than me. The manometer never lies.

As far as what you want to power, that sounds like plenty. Aunit that size may even be able to run your central air, if needed with the installation of a sure start unit. I ran my 3 ton central air, two refrigerators and general lighting and outlets for 12 days on a 5500 after Ian.

You can probably figure 150,000- 200k BTUs per hour for that unit. Compare a 10k or 11k Generac fuel consumption from their website and they should be pretty close.


(Disclaimer: not a gas fitter, but I do have a healthy working knowledge of LP and natural gas systems)

 

[OllieC]

There are a lot of variables On the gas system. It all depends on the size of what’s feeding it and where it originates. You might have a three-quarter poly coming directly from your first stage regulator at the tank, running 10 psi to a second stage 1.1 million and then coming directly inside. You might have an insufficient half inch copper line snaked through the house from the 70s. Without putting eyes on it I wouldn’t even begin to be able to tell you, but generally I like generator having a dedicated line.

80 percent of the problems encounter are the result of a jack ass gasfitter feeding a 22 or 24 kW generator 12 kW worth of gas. They’ve been doing it that way for 30 years and they know better than me. The manometer never lies.

As far as what you want to power, that sounds like plenty. Aunit that size may even be able to run your central air, if needed with the installation of a sure start unit. I ran my 3 ton central air, two refrigerators and general lighting and outlets for 12 days on a 5500 after Ian.

You can probably figure 150,000- 200k BTUs per hour for that unit. Compare a 10k or 11k Generac fuel consumption from their website and they should be pretty close.


(Disclaimer: not a gas fitter, but I do have a healthy working knowledge of LP and natural gas systems)

Thank you @Stray Current . Great info. It is a 1/2” LP copper line coming in after a regulator. The only thing it feeds is our small home boiler for radiant heat in the Winter. No central air. The “T” and connection would be outside under the deck next to our lower patio.

 

[Stray Current]

Thank you @Stray Current . Great info. It is a 1/2” LP copper line coming in after a regulator. The only thing it feeds is our small home boiler for radiant heat in the Winter. No central air. The “T” and connection would be outside under the deck next to our lower patio.

If you have at least a half inch line at 10 psi coming from first stage at your tank to that second stage regulator and you tap in on the load side of the second stage before the boiler you should be fine. Maybe make a little manifold out of three-quarter inch pipe. Generally that standard first and second stage regulator is good for 1.1 million BTUs per hour. With half inch from the tank, line loss depends on the distance.

If you want to attach some pictures of the system with estimated distances, I could give you a better idea

If that’s really all you want to run, you may want to consider a smaller unit to stretch your fuel supply longer

I had my house wired in an inlet, with a 3 ton central air, two refrigerators, and most of my outlets and lights. I burned about 12 gallons (gasoline) a day with the air set to 74.

 

[OllieC]

If you have at least a half inch line at 10 psi coming from first stage at your tank to that second stage regulator and you tap in on the load side of the second stage before the boiler you should be fine. Maybe make a little manifold out of three-quarter inch pipe. Generally that standard first and second stage regulator is good for 1.1 million BTUs per hour. With half inch from the tank, line loss depends on the distance.

If you want to attach some pictures of the system with estimated distances, I could give you a better idea

If that’s really all you want to run, you may want to consider a smaller unit to stretch your fuel supply longer

I had my house wired in an inlet, with a 3 ton central air, two refrigerators, and most of my outlets and lights. I burned about 12 gallons (gasoline) a day with the air set to 74.

I do have a smaller generator. 4K watt inverter. I just didn’t think it would be large enough. It’ll handle my heat and refrigeration, but not sure about the lift pump and well pump. Maybe if I turned off breakers while using the restroom it would work.

Edit: dang - that was fast. I was scanning the bikini thread and you had replied already.

 

[Stray Current]

I do have a smaller generator. 4K watt inverter. I just didn’t think it would be large enough. It’ll handle my heat and refrigeration, but not sure about the lift pump and well pump. Maybe if I turned breakers while using the restroom it would work.

Edit: dang - that was fast. I was scanning the bikini thread and you had replied already.

I was thinking more like an 8500. That’s generally a little smaller engine than a 10/12. I missed well AND lift pump

 

[Stray Current]

Edit: dang - that was fast. I was scanning the bikini thread and you had replied already.

Not much doing today, boat is laid up and it’s raining

 

[blaster]

I do have a smaller generator. 4K watt inverter. I just didn’t think it would be large enough. It’ll handle my heat and refrigeration, but not sure about the lift pump and well pump. Maybe if I turned off breakers while using the restroom it would work.

Edit: dang - that was fast. I was scanning the bikini thread and you had replied already.

Well pump is probably 220 volt so there is that.

 

[OllieC]

Well pump is probably 220 volt so there is that.

Yes - it is. Not sure the HP because I’m getting a new one and tank next week.

 

[Stray Current]

Yes - it is. Not sure the HP because I’m getting a new one and tank next week.

If you hit me with a specification plate of all the equipment you have I can help with sizing

 

[Nater Potater]

Possibly another useful data point (I hope it's useful); I wired a breakout panel into our home that allowed the powering of the 2HP well, 2 refrigerators, pellet stove, recirc fan in the central air system (no a/c), and a few lights. That way, we could keep food cold, heat in the house, and water for the roof sprinklers in case of fire. Yes, we were out in the sticks with minimal hope of fire protection. This was run with a 4kW gas generator. I did have the water heater wired in, but with the understanding that the 4kW couldn't run everything at the same time, so we'd have to manually toggle between the heavy consumers if it ever came down to it. Fortunately, it never did.