Garmin Radar Fantom?

[Skybolt]

Clarification on EBL (my error) - that is the distance and bearing to the object of interest from your boat's current location.
The lines on the MARPA target still show direction and speed.
You can also set up a Guard Zone which will also alarm if something enters the zone.

So yes the VRM/EBL will measure when moving. I was under the impression that the VRM/EBL when used at anchor would alarm if the selected target(s) enter the VRM ring. Is that not the case? I have never tested this so it has been a guess until now.

The Guard Zone will alarm no matter what when a target enters the band, that has been tested many times.

My issue here is until last year I had 4212(s) with this radar and that did not support MARPA and handled the VRM/EBL differently. So the 1243(s) are fairly new to me and haven't really played around to much with the extended features. I will also say this, it does matter what radar head you have for the features to be displayed like in the manual. The manual speaks to the Fantom and it's supported features. My radar head doesn't have the same settings you guys have, even the simplest of settings like appearance color of fore/background colors. Only black or white background only. Al's Marpa settings are not available for me either and to your point it is way too busy with all selected. Garmin almost forces you to upgrade by not supporting current features even when they obviously could like with the fore/background colors.

 

[alnav]

So yes the VRM/EBL will measure when moving. I was under the impression that the VRM/EBL when used at anchor would alarm if the selected target(s) enter the VRM ring. Is that not the case? I have never tested this so it has been a guess until now.

The Guard Zone will alarm no matter what when a target enters the band, that has been tested many times.

My issue here is until last year I had 4212(s) with this radar and that did not support MARPA and handled the VRM/EBL differently. So the 1243(s) are fairly new to me and haven't really played around to much with the extended features. I will also say this, it does matter what radar head you have for the features to be displayed like in the manual. The manual speaks to the Fantom and it's supported features. My radar head doesn't have the same settings you guys have, even the simplest of settings like appearance color of fore/background colors. Only black or white background only. Al's Marpa settings are not available for me either and to your point it is way too busy with all selected. Garmin almost forces you to upgrade by not supporting current features even when they obviously could like with the fore/background colors.

The 1243's ought to behave just like Tom and my 86XXs, or are you saying they behave differently? I hear you about model differences. I have a 7608 I bought to augment my larger units thinking it was going to remain current with the other two as part of the "black" series. Now that one is stuck at software V20 while the 86's are at V28. I see a few other models now stuck at V24. A real mess. I was thinking of getting a 743 to replace the 7608 but if they are divergent from 86XX then that's a bad plan.

 

[ttmott]

So yes the VRM/EBL will measure when moving. I was under the impression that the VRM/EBL when used at anchor would alarm if the selected target(s) enter the VRM ring. Is that not the case? I have never tested this so it has been a guess until now.

The Guard Zone will alarm no matter what when a target enters the band, that has been tested many times.

My issue here is until last year I had 4212(s) with this radar and that did not support MARPA and handled the VRM/EBL differently. So the 1243(s) are fairly new to me and haven't really played around to much with the extended features. I will also say this, it does matter what radar head you have for the features to be displayed like in the manual. The manual speaks to the Fantom and it's supported features. My radar head doesn't have the same settings you guys have, even the simplest of settings like appearance color of fore/background colors. Only black or white background only. Al's Marpa settings are not available for me either and to your point it is way too busy with all selected. Garmin almost forces you to upgrade by not supporting current features even when they obviously could like with the fore/background colors.

Orlando, have you seen this video?
I'm pretty sure your system has a MARPA capability provided you have an autopilot heading / gps sensor.

 

[Skybolt]

The 1243's ought to behave just like Tom and my 86XXs, or are you saying they behave differently? I hear you about model differences. I have a 7608 I bought to augment my larger units thinking it was going to remain current with the other two as part of the "black" series. Now that one is stuck at software V20 while the 86's are at V28. I see a few other models now stuck at V24. A real mess. I was thinking of getting a 743 to replace the 7608 but if they are divergent from 86XX then that's a bad plan.

The 1243 line is exactly the same as the 8600 line from a software view point. What I am saying is the radar head I have does not act like your Fantom with the same options. I believe the type of radar head you have denotes what options will be displayed. Your Fantom is the latest and greatest, my HD isn't and is discontinued so I believe they dumb down that interface and if you want the better features you must pay for them by upgrading.

Funny, I also have the 7608 and was also thinking of a 943 as a replacement as well because of the new software change. What started this thread was me wanting to take the 7608 and HD and put that on my CC and buy new Fantom and 943 as the final upgrade to the electronics. But another 4500 may not be warranted for this as what I have now is perfect for the type of boating here on the Chesapeake requires.

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, have you seen this video?
I'm pretty sure your system has a MARPA capability provided you have an autopilot heading / gps sensor.

Haven't seen it until now, thanks Tom. Yes the 1243(s) do have MARPA, it was hidden in "Other Vessels", but as I posted, I don't have the same options you have for the MARPA settings.

 

[Skybolt]

The 1243's ought to behave just like Tom and my 86XXs, or are you saying they behave differently? I hear you about model differences. I have a 7608 I bought to augment my larger units thinking it was going to remain current with the other two as part of the "black" series. Now that one is stuck at software V20 while the 86's are at V28. I see a few other models now stuck at V24. A real mess. I was thinking of getting a 743 to replace the 7608 but if they are divergent from 86XX then that's a bad plan.

Al on a side note for the 7608, that is not compatible with the Navionics chart subscription. Only the more recent GPSMAPS are like the xx43 series is.

 

[alnav]

Orlando, I just got an email from BOE Marine saying the Fantom 18 is closing out (assume the 18X will be the only model going forward). If I were you I would think about getting one, not sure too much is lost going with the smaller dome. Feature-wise, I think the only difference between the first iteration and the X models is a little bit higher output power.

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, I just got an email from BOE Marine saying the Fantom 18 is closing out (assume the 18X will be the only model going forward). If I were you I would think about getting one, not sure too much is lost going with the smaller dome. Feature-wise, I think the only difference between the first iteration and the X models is a little bit higher output power.

I got the same email and was considering it, but was wanting to go with the 24x, but at twice the price not sure it's worth it with that sale.

 

[b_arrington]

Do you see different colors for targets moving towards you and away from you?

On the Garmin Fantom sets, yes if you turn on the function. This is the Doppler mode. Potentially hazardous targets moving toward you are fuschia (hot pink), while safe targets moving away are green. Stationary targets are red (or whatever scheme you've picked.

The Doppler color coding is very useful. It can really help ID the targets you need to watch. There have been multiple occasions that I could not visually determine which way a sail boat was traveling; the radar gave me the indication so I could plot my course properly.

 

[b_arrington]

I got the same email and was considering it, but was wanting to go with the 24x, but at twice the price not sure it's worth it with that sale.

I've had both the Fantom 18 and the Fantom 24. I can say for certain the 24 is better at target separation. Where small fishing boats tend to merge into a single contact with the 18, they are much more distinct as individual contacts with the 24. If I had a sudden influx of cash, I would upgrade my current Fantom 18 to a 24x. Maybe someone wants to buy it off me to fund a 24x purchase...

 

[Skybolt]

On the Garmin Fantom sets, yes if you turn on the function. This is the Doppler mode. Potentially hazardous targets moving toward you are fuschia (hot pink), while safe targets moving away are green. Stationary targets are red (or whatever scheme you've picked.

The Doppler color coding is very useful. It can really help ID the targets you need to watch. There have been multiple occasions that I could not visually determine which way a sail boat was traveling; the radar gave me the indication so I could plot my course properly.

Yeah with the HD it is limited on it's settings compared to the Fantom, the Fantom seems to be what I am looking for. Especially the Doppler mode.

 

[Skybolt]

I've had both the Fantom 18 and the Fantom 24. I can say for certain the 24 is better at target separation. Where small fishing boats tend to merge into a single contact with the 18, they are much more distinct as individual contacts with the 24. If I had a sudden influx of cash, I would upgrade my current Fantom 18 to a 24x. Maybe someone wants to buy it off me to fund a 24x purchase...

And there's the rub on buying the 18, the 24x is 25% more powerful then the 18, 50w opposed to 40w. And it probably doesn't matter for 90% of the time. It's the other 10% when you need it, night, heavy rain and dense fog especially that natters. But I guess for the right price the 18 could be an upgrade of sorts.

 

[b_arrington]

And there's the rub on buying the 18, the 24x is 25% more powerful then the 18, 50w opposed to 40w. And it probably doesn't matter for 90% of the time. It's the other 10% when you need it, night, heavy rain and dense fog especially that natters. But I guess for the right price the 18 could be an upgrade of sorts.

I'd say that if you want to upgrade and are budget-limited, the Fantom 18 is still a good unit. The Doppler function alone is a huge upgrade. Plus the lower power draw and extremely fast warm-up times (like 3 seconds) it's great.

 

[ttmott]

Not to disagree but I would rather have target resolution than the MotionScope feature. Resolution (target separation) comes with the wider antennas and nothing else. I would rather keep a 24 xHD than get an 18x Fantom.
MotionScope is handy and another tool in the toolbox but it's information is dependent upon the target separation also.
MARPA which is one of the most important tools for me is also dependent upon target separation.
So, if you need the radar for higher boat traffic areas, you'll want the widest scanner you can get.

 

[dtfeld]

Last I looked, the 24 had a pretty good advantage in the horizontal beam width over the 18, with a corresponding price increase.

However, you got to look at the technology behind the solid state radar to better compare a magnetron radar vs a solid state radar. How power is generated, measured and processed are very different, and allow for a lot of the advanced capabilities of the solid state radars.

Lots of articles on this, but Citimarine had a decent one. I read several others before deciding to proceed with my purchase.

https://citimarinestore.com/citiguide/advantages-of-solid-state-radar-over-magnetron-radars/

One thing I alway come back to with any marine radar, is that they are all very limited in range by the physics, and at the ranges a cruiser is most likely to operate at even a 18” solid state radar is pretty damn capable. I find I use 2-3 ranges most often 1/4, 3/4 mile and 3 miles. At the shorter end, small buoys and markers light up. Out a 3 miles multiple PWC are visible. Occasionally, I turn it up to 12-16 in weather mode to look for thunderstorms. For my use case, it is a great fit.


But as Tom pointed out will always provide better target resolution. And as always it’s just a matter of money vs performance. I don’t think either the 18x or 24x would disappoint. Spec wise the power output is better than the Raymarine, and the beam width of RM is about in the middle between the 2 Garmin models. It blows away the old 4’ open array that initially came in the boat.

 

[Skybolt]

Yeah I totally agree with @ttmott and @dtfeld in that the 24x would provide much better target resolution. I never considered the 18 for just that reason. My current 24 HD has pretty good resolution, but kayacks are not seen. Smaller boats around bouys are tough to be seen until right on top of them. For those reasons and what is being said here the 18 might be an upgrade, but is it what I am looking for? I still might wait and upgrade over the winter to the 24x unless an 18 is the right price and there is my delema.

 

[b_arrington]

Not to disagree but I would rather have target resolution than the MotionScope feature. Resolution (target separation) comes with the wider antennas and nothing else. I would rather keep a 24 xHD than get an 18x Fantom.
MotionScope is handy and another tool in the toolbox but it's information is dependent upon the target separation also.
MARPA which is one of the most important tools for me is also dependent upon target separation.
So, if you need the radar for higher boat traffic areas, you'll want the widest scanner you can get.

Valid points. I’ll note that Orlando said his current 24 HD has a hard time with resolution and target separation. Combining that with my experience with the Fantom 18, the 18 would be an worthy upgrade. Dispute my earlier comparison against the Fantom 24, the 18 does a good job at separating close in targets. It’s when you get out 4ish miles that smaller targets can merge.

One more thing - you did want to disagree! That’s ok, there are lots of good points here. Plus you did it without being disagreeable.

 

[ttmott]

Valid points. I’ll note that Orlando said his current 24 HD has a hard time with resolution and target separation. Combining that with my experience with the Fantom 18, the 18 would be an worthy upgrade. Dispute my earlier comparison against the Fantom 24, the 18 does a good job at separating close in targets. It’s when you get out 4ish miles that smaller targets can merge.

One more thing - you did want to disagree! That’s ok, there are lots of good points here. Plus you did it without being disagreeable.

Oh contraire - my point was to provide my preferences and technically why I have those, not to counterpoint anyone else's. @SKybolt is trying to resolve small targets (Kayaks) which is even a challenge with my large 48 inch scanner but in this case, digital or not, size matters.

 

[dtfeld]

Oh contraire - my point was to provide my preferences and technically why I have those, not to counterpoint anyone else's. @SKybolt is trying to resolve small targets (Kayaks) which is even a challenge with my large 48 inch scanner but in this case, digital or not, size matters.

Small low targets on the water are tough, especially a kayak, if using auto settings. There is a at least some sea clutter gain adjustment going on, which would tend to filter those out. I'll see if I cant try some manual setting and pick up kayakers.

One of the main reasons for me picking the Quantum was to be able to identify small fishing boats without lights at night. The usual 16' john boat will show a return at the closer ranges. Usually these guys are working a point, a hole or other structure, so with the radar overlaid the chart, gives a pretty good clue something is out there, and to proceed with caution.

 

[alnav]

Small low targets on the water are tough, especially a kayak, if using auto settings. There is a at least some sea clutter gain adjustment going on, which would tend to filter those out. I'll see if I cant try some manual setting and pick up kayakers.

One of the main reasons for me picking the Quantum was to be able to identify small fishing boats without lights at night. The usual 16' john boat will show a return at the closer ranges. Usually these guys are working a point, a hole or other structure, so with the radar overlaid the chart, gives a pretty good clue something is out there, and to proceed with caution.

I have been tweaking my Fantom 24 while following this thread, posted a picture earlier. Today, I had the boat out in the very narrow river she's staying on. I got excellent results on seeing very small targets like kayaks, even got returns on a paddle board. The major tweak turned out to be turning the gain down to about 25%. My sense is the factory setting is high to provide for longer ranges. I also have "small targets" on which I think aims to reduce the size of the return to avoid blobs from small targets. This also works well for keeping down the screen size of buoys and markers.
Also very pleased with auto-Marpa (they ought to just call it Arpa). Having it set for MotionScope closing targets seems to be the best setting for me. I didn't need to manually acquire any targets I was interested in and didn't see any targets I wouldn't have wanted to know about.
I had a Guard Zone set up but turned it off for alarming too often.