Garmin Radar Fantom?

[Skybolt]

@ttmott or anyone else that has the Fantom radar.

But Tom I am considering upgrading my current Garmin GMR 24 HD to the Fantom 24x. I don't do any real ocean runs and primarily only in the Chesapeake Bay. I am considering upgrading to the Fantom 24x but not sure if there is any real gain by doing so.

Could you post a real life screen shot of a populated area? A picture is worth a thousand words in this case.

Thanks.

 

[BlueYonder]

I made the change to a fantom 24 after my 24HD gave up the ghost. It was a big improvement. The Doppler feature shows returns as different colors depending on whether the target is coming towards you or going away from you. The weather returns are greatly improved with a very clear picture of the storm. The installation was easy as it uses the same connectors and bolt pattern of the old radar.

 

[ttmott]

@ttmott or anyone else that has the Fantom radar.

But Tom I am considering upgrading my current Garmin GMR 24 HD to the Fantom 24x. I don't do any real ocean runs and primarily only in the Chesapeake Bay. I am considering upgrading to the Fantom 24x but not sure if there is any real gain by doing so.

Could you post a real life screen shot of a populated area? A picture is worth a thousand words in this case.

Thanks.

Let me see what I can do for you.
I have the Fantom 54 and on my last boat I had the 48" XHD2. To be honest for our uses the MotionScope Doppler feature doesn't justify the price differential for an upgrade of a working system. Don't get me wrong if I was to replace an obsolete or failed system I'd definitely go solid-state. The power consumption is so much lower in the new Fantoms.
Another nicety is the Fantom is pretty much instant on; it doesn't need the warmup time. From a display aspect the Fantom gives a finer level of detail and information but to really resolve the detail you need a large display. I do like the MARPA feature as well as the distinction in color of an object moving towards or away. I never overlay charts and radar but that's just me; I can discern more important detail without the clutter of the chart in the radar screen, the black background is better rather than the charts.
One thing I do like is the pan/zoom capability on the Garmin MFD's with the radar still providing data on the screen. Not sure if Ray or the others do this but it is a great capability.

 

[Skybolt]

Let me see what I can do for you.
I have the Fantom 54 and on my last boat I had the 48" XHD2. To be honest for our uses the MotionScope Doppler feature doesn't justify the price differential for an upgrade of a working system. Don't get me wrong if I was to replace an obsolete or failed system I'd definitely go solid-state. The power consumption is so much lower in the new Fantoms.
Another nicety is the Fantom is pretty much instant on; it doesn't need the warmup time. From a display aspect the Fantom gives a finer level of detail and information but to really resolve the detail you need a large display. I do like the MARPA feature as well as the distinction in color of an object moving towards or away. I never overlay charts and radar but that's just me; I can discern more important detail without the clutter of the chart in the radar screen, the black background is better rather than the charts.
One thing I do like is the pan/zoom capability on the Garmin MFD's with the radar still providing data on the screen. Not sure if Ray or the others do this but it is a great capability.

And that is my quandary, my current setup works perfectly, even better since I upgraded to the 1243's (Same software as the 86xx). But I was very interested in the MARPA and Doppler features that I don't currently have. But again not sure how much I would actually use them and not be more of a cool feature. I am considering this because my CC doesn't have radar and was considering adding it and then the wheels started turning and thought upgrade the big boat and use the old radar on the CC. Thanks for your insight.

 

[alnav]

Orlando, I've got the Fantom 24 - original model now upgraded to 24X.
I lit off the radar and took a screenshot today. Due to the rain, there wasn't much traffic in what us usually a very busy area. But, I spotted an L590 coming in to be hauled out and took this:

The range ring is at 1/16 mile so very close quarters. The shows the doppler indicator (red for closing) aa well as the motion trail. I'm parked about eight slips in with boats on either side and behind but you can see the ~50Ft fairways pretty well. It was actually raining pretty hard when I took the shot and I had not done any adjustment for that. If tomorrow is a busy day I'll see if I can get some pictures with more traffic and perhaps make some Marpa targets.

 

[dtfeld]

I have the RM Quantum 2 Doppler. I am a huge fan of the solid state Doppler radars. There are a number of reasons, but close up target identification is spectacular due to the very small blind range, and secondly the Doppler identifies moving objects and make me aware of their presence way before I can make visual contact. The red/green objects jump out at you on a cluttered screen immediately.

I find this a huge situational awareness improvement. It really proved it worth leaving a fireworks show over the 4th. Lots of boats, dark and a little rain in the area. I didn’t necessarily enjoy the ride as it was tough and slow boating/going, but I felt I had great situational awareness with the equipment/crew I had onboard.

The 24x is a really nice unit, and has great specs. In the ranges we operate, I think you would really like it.

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, I've got the Fantom 24 - original model now upgraded to 24X.
I lit off the radar and took a screenshot today. Due to the rain, there wasn't much traffic in what us usually a very busy area. But, I spotted an L590 coming in to be hauled out and took this:
View attachment 130226
The range ring is at 1/16 mile so very close quarters. The shows the doppler indicator (red for closing) aa well as the motion trail. I'm parked about eight slips in with boats on either side and behind but you can see the ~50Ft fairways pretty well. It was actually raining pretty hard when I took the shot and I had not done any adjustment for that. If tomorrow is a busy day I'll see if I can get some pictures with more traffic and perhaps make some Marpa targets.

Thank you, this is great. That does show a lot differently then mine does now. That is pretty detailed compared to my bi object blur, in tight spaces like that I would not see the run ways as you do. That is pretty nice to be able to see that. Thank you for posting this.

Do you see different colors for targets moving towards you and away from you?

 

[Skybolt]

I have the RM Quantum 2 Doppler. I am a huge fan of the solid state Doppler radars. There are a number of reasons, but close up target identification is spectacular due to the very small blind range, and secondly the Doppler identifies moving objects and make me aware of their presence way before I can make visual contact. The red/green objects jump out at you on a cluttered screen immediately.

I find this a huge situational awareness improvement. It really proved it worth leaving a fireworks show over the 4th. Lots of boats, dark and a little rain in the area. I didn’t necessarily enjoy the ride as it was tough and slow boating/going, but I felt I had great situational awareness with the equipment/crew I had onboard.

The 24x is a really nice unit, and has great specs. In the ranges we operate, I think you would really like it.

Great info Dave Thanks. I agree, I think I would benefit from the upgraded Radar.

 

[dtfeld]

It's my favorite upgrade electronics wise I've made. I use it at all the times. And when you need it, you'll ve really glad you made the investment.

I'll see if I can grab a screen shots with some targets next time out

 

[ttmott]

@SKybolt Orlando - I would be surprised if your current system did not have MARPA. It's probably a bit more difficult to utilize on your setup; that's all....
Heck my old Raymarine E120 / Pathfinder had MARPA and EBL. It was quite a bit more involved to use than the Garmin touch screens I have now.

 

[Skybolt]

@SKybolt Orlando - I would be surprised if your current system did not have MARPA. It's probably a bit more difficult to utilize on your setup; that's all....
Heck my old Raymarine E120 / Pathfinder had MARPA and EBL. It was quite a bit more involved to use than the Garmin touch screens I have now.

I do have EBL and VMR and use those while at anchor. A quick search of the GMR 24 states it has MARPA, but I don't see any settings for it and the targets don't have any colors on them denoting moving towards or away like the newer systems have. Perhaps it is automatic when you highlight a target, haven't tried that ever with my system.

Doesn't the Fantom automatically highlight moving targets in the EBL/VMR?

EDIT: Well don't I feel stupid, just read up on MARPA and I always thought it was a function of the Radar Head being used and it's not really, it's a function of the MFD and that tells the Radar what to do.

But it must be activated by each target individually it seems.

 

[ttmott]

I do have EBL and VMR and use those while at anchor. A quick search of the GMR 24 states it has MARPA, but I don't see any settings for it and the targets don't have any colors on them denoting moving towards or away like the newer systems have. Perhaps it is automatic when you highlight a target, haven't tried that ever with my system.

Doesn't the Fantom automatically highlight moving targets in the EBL/VMR?

Once a MARPA object is identified by the user the radar data provides distance, heading, and speed.
As far as Garmin on the VMR (I rarely use it) once a VMR perimeter is established (that is a user setting) any detected moving object crossing the perimeter notification is provided. I've never used the EBL other than what is provided in a MARPA target but I don't believe it is "automatic"; maybe a setting in the system.
My Garmin HD did all of this as well as my Fantom. It seems the difference in the Fantom is the system integrates your boat's position, speed, and heading and calculates closest encounter and will alarm if it calculates potential collision. Then there is the MotionScope feature that colors the target depending on it's direction.

 

[Skybolt]

Once a MARPA object is identified by the user the radar data provides distance, heading, and speed.
As far as Garmin on the VMR (I rarely use it) once a VMR perimeter is established (that is a user setting) any detected moving object crossing the perimeter notification is provided. I've never used the EBL other than what is provided in a MARPA target but I don't believe it is "automatic"; maybe a setting in the system.
My Garmin HD did all of this as well as my Fantom. It seems the difference in the Fantom is the system integrates your boat's position, speed, and heading and calculates closest encounter and will alarm if it calculates potential collision. Then there is the MotionScope feature that colors the target depending on it's direction.

I use EBL when on anchor it will alarm if the anchor drift's, I tried VMR last weekend and it alarms on the swing of the boat on anchor so that isn't really useful but is when at cruise.

I never realized that MARPA was per target and MotionScope did the colorization. I thought MARPA was on automatically with the newer radar heads. Thanks for clearing all for that up. I will be trying that out this weekend.

 

[alnav]

I use EBL when on anchor it will alarm if the anchor drift's, I tried VMR last weekend and it alarms on the swing of the boat on anchor so that isn't really useful but is when at cruise.

I never realized that MARPA was per target and MotionScope did the colorization. I thought MARPA was on automatically with the newer radar heads. Thanks for clearing all for that up. I will be trying that out this weekend.

Orlando, the Auto-MARPA controls are in Options...Layers...Other Vessels. There, you can select a number of options for how it works, then can enable auto-generation of targets. I started with the full monte, turning auto-MARPA on for all radar contacts. But, that caused a lot of clutter. The MARPA was creating targets off my wake on plane so it looked like I was dragging a bunch of other boats. It made targets out of cars on roads near the shore. Other options include guard zones and boundaries. Never quite figured out boundaries but they seem to be fixed areas so not that useful. A guard zone is a circle (I think that may be what you and Tom are calling VRM?) so I would still have the wake problem at speed. I settled on using the MotionScope option which allows for either closing or opening targets or both. I've been using closing targets this year and really like it. Essentially, it will only generate targets on returns that are likely to be a problem.

 

[alnav]

Thank you, this is great. That does show a lot differently then mine does now. That is pretty detailed compared to my bi object blur, in tight spaces like that I would not see the run ways as you do. That is pretty nice to be able to see that. Thank you for posting this.

Do you see different colors for targets moving towards you and away from you?

Three years ago, I navigated out of this marina 100% on this radar (long story). It's about 45 minutes to the Potomac River and the channel is much narrower in some places than it is by the marina. Then I was in zero-zero viz for another two hours on the Potomac.
I was playing with the radar yesterday. Much more traffic and I could see single-seat kayaks as well as larger boats going by.
Yes, on the standard color scheme closing targets are red, opening are green.

 

[Skybolt]

Orlando, the Auto-MARPA controls are in Options...Layers...Other Vessels. There, you can select a number of options for how it works, then can enable auto-generation of targets. I started with the full monte, turning auto-MARPA on for all radar contacts. But, that caused a lot of clutter. The MARPA was creating targets off my wake on plane so it looked like I was dragging a bunch of other boats. It made targets out of cars on roads near the shore. Other options include guard zones and boundaries. Never quite figured out boundaries but they seem to be fixed areas so not that useful. A guard zone is a circle (I think that may be what you and Tom are calling VRM?) so I would still have the wake problem at speed. I settled on using the MotionScope option which allows for either closing or opening targets or both. I've been using closing targets this year and really like it. Essentially, it will only generate targets on returns that are likely to be a problem.

Al, yeah they can get confusing but the two work together:

From the manual:
VRM and EBL The variable range marker (VRM) and the electronic bearing line (EBL) measure the distance and bearing from your boat to a target object. On the Radar screen, the VRM appears as a circle that is centered on the present location of your boat, and the EBL appears as a line that begins at the present location of your boat and intersects the VRM. The point of intersection is the target of the VRM and the EBL.

Thank you for explaining MARPA and how you use it. Sounds like I will also set it up that way. I never go into other vessels except for AIS data and usually only while at cruise so it appears as button on top of the screen when the target is selected. The MARPA data has always seemed like fluff to me until my last long cruise, I was away from the helm for ~5 min on autopilot and my wife was at watch. I had a close call as a result and my wife never even new what happened. She has seen the EBL and VRM work at anchor and just assumed it would work that way while under way. I tried to explain all of this and she said with all of the alarms I have on the boat why didn't it tell her there was an issue. I couldn't say anything to that and that made me start looking into this.

 

[Skybolt]

Three years ago, I navigated out of this marina 100% on this radar (long story). It's about 45 minutes to the Potomac River and the channel is much narrower in some places than it is by the marina. Then I was in zero-zero viz for another two hours on the Potomac.
I was playing with the radar yesterday. Much more traffic and I could see single-seat kayaks as well as larger boats going by.
Yes, on the standard color scheme closing targets are red, opening are green.

Dam! Mine doesn't pick up kayacks for the most part. I guess right there is reason enough for the Fantom 24x.

 

[alnav]

Al, yeah they can get confusing but the two work together:

From the manual:
VRM and EBL The variable range marker (VRM) and the electronic bearing line (EBL) measure the distance and bearing from your boat to a target object. On the Radar screen, the VRM appears as a circle that is centered on the present location of your boat, and the EBL appears as a line that begins at the present location of your boat and intersects the VRM. The point of intersection is the target of the VRM and the EBL.

I'm still confused. The only product of VRM and EBL is a range and bearing to a spot on the screen, correct?
I still think you may mean this:
Enabling a Guard Zone

You can enable a guard zone to alert you when anything comes within a specified area around your boat.
From a radar screen, select Options > Radar Options > Guard Zone.
Defining a Circular Guard Zone
Before you can define the boundaries of the guard zone, you must enable a guard zone.
You can define a circular guard zone that completely surrounds your boat.

1. From a radar screen, select Options > Radar Options > Guard Zone > .
2. Select Circle.
3. Select the location of the outer guard zone circle.
4. Select the location of the inner guard zone circle to define the width of the guard zone.

 

[ttmott]

In settings there are selection on target sizes. I set on "smallest" to see those kayaks.
The VRM can be used either with your boat static or in motion. It is not a substitute for anchor drag warning unless you are dragging into another boat and it crosses the VRM perimeter. A VRM perimeter less than 100 feet is pretty much useless on a sedan bridge.
I setup my MARPA strictly manual. I see a target of interest and mark it as a MARPA target. The MARPA target also shows on my other MFD that I keep the chart up on but not the radar; it shows as a MARPA icon with the EBL. If the cursor is placed over it it shows the speed, heading, and time/distance to closest encounter. The MARPA target will have the EBL on it showing direction/heading and the length of the line (I think) indicates speed.

 

[ttmott]

Clarification on EBL (my error) - that is the distance and bearing to the object of interest from your boat's current location.
The lines on the MARPA target still show direction and speed.
You can also set up a Guard Zone which will also alarm if something enters the zone.