Fresh Water Rinse Manifold '05 340Da

[Alex F]

John,

I finished the basic installation and was testing today. I ran each engine at the time and within a min or two after turning on the fresh water I could taste that water from exhaust of the flushing engine is much fresher. My best guess is about 80-85% fresh over salt. I wander how you perform your process? My steps were:
1. An engine started then I turn on the fresh water valve for one engine.
2. I run the engine with fresh water flow for 2-3min. Then, I shut off the engine and then shut off water for the engine.
3. Repeat for the other engine.

My installation is different from yours since I didn’t run the hoses all the way to the sea strainers. My engines are equipped with flushing kits with quick connect. So, I ran the hoses and connected them with the other part of the special (with check valve) quick connect fitting.

I also wanted to talk about genny. Mine is Kohler 5K and it’s fresh water cooled. Does it really need to be flushed? I think it could be overkill. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[rondds]

alex
cant you shut the seacocks on the strainers, thus flushing with 100% fresh water.

i dont flush my genny. probably should but i dont.

 

[Hampton]

John,

I finished the basic installation and was testing today. I ran each engine at the time and within a min or two after turning on the fresh water I could taste that water from exhaust of the flushing engine is much fresher. My best guess is about 80-85% fresh over salt. I wander how you perform your process? My steps were:
1. An engine started then I turn on the fresh water valve for one engine.
2. I run the engine with fresh water flow for 2-3min. Then, I shut off the engine and then shut off water for the engine.
3. Repeat for the other engine.

My installation is different from yours since I didn’t run the hoses all the way to the sea strainers. My engines are equipped with flushing kits with quick connect. So, I ran the hoses and connected them with the other part of the special (with check valve) quick connect fitting.

I also wanted to talk about genny. Mine is Kohler 5K and it’s fresh water cooled. Does it really need to be flushed? I think it could be overkill. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Alex

The problem in your system is your flush kits. They are the limiting factor. They are designed to be used with the through hull ball valve closed. They only reason they have worked is that your engine is starved for cooling water flow. My system provides excess fresh water.

Overkill? Maybe. My goal is to never find out.

 

[Alex F]

alex
cant you shut the seacocks on the strainers, thus flushing with 100% fresh water.

i dont flush my genny. probably should but i dont.

Ron,
The primary purpose of my setup was to have convenience of not going to the engine room. I was planning to dock, connect the water, open each valve one at the time and shut the engines in order after they’re flushed. It’s very convenient and easy to use. But, I have to tune it a bit.

We usually arrive to marina very late and blocking the cockpit while admiral is trying to get few things organized is something I’d like to avoid, especially on Sunday night when we’re getting ready to head back home.

Thx,
Alex.

 

[Alex F]

The problem in your system is your flush kits. They are the limiting factor. They are designed to be used with the through hull ball valve closed. They only reason they have worked is that your engine is starved for cooling water flow. My system provides excess fresh water.

Overkill? Maybe. My goal is to never find out.

John,
I was told that that this kit should be fine without closing the seacocks. I was thinking that one improvement I can try is to change my hose from coiled to regular 5/8 garden hose. I’ll do that next week hopping that it’ll provide more pressure and overpower the seacock intake. Theoretically, it should make some improvement.

As a last resort I’m thinking about PERKO valves, but I hate to have a plastic component to play such vital role for the engines.

How long do you run your engines before you’re convinced that they’re flashed?

I hear your point on the genny :smt001.

Thx,
Alex.

 

[rondds]

alex:
understood about not popping a hatch to do this flush out. my hatch is real easy to open and the seacocks are right there. i'd imagine for you it can be a real production opening things up.

 

[Hampton]

I hope it works out well. I can't imagine a 350 being supplied enough flow through a 5/8" hose, even at idle. I run the taste test to tell when they're done. The genny takes less than a minute and then engines take between 1 and 2 minutes each. They are fresh water cooled, so there isn't much left to rinse, but what is left is well worth rinsing.

I don't sweat it that much. Once it tastes clean, I'm guessing that it's 99% fresh water. Taste the salt water in your area, then taste the exhaust water after rinse. It'll taste a little metalic due to the exhaust, but no salt. Most people's taste buds are pretty sensitive to salt.

Remember, I ran the first test with the sea cocks closed, and I caught exhaust water in a bucket and measured dissolved solids in parts per million. Then, I opened the sea cocks and tested again - no change. Also, there was no measurable/repeatable change by rinsing for longer periods of time. As long as your boat has not been pulled out which would allow salt to dry inside, it should rinse out pretty quickly.

 

[rondds]

john
my 454s do fine with 5/8" garden hose. i can tell by watching the volume of water coming out of the exhausts (no under water exhaust on this boat) and it is unchanged from the amount when running on seawater.

 

[Alex F]

I did another test yesterday and Ron is correct. 5/8 hose produces very good pressure to overpower the sea water intake. I did a quick test of having two hoses (5/8 and coiled one) next to each other and turned one on/off then another on/off. I felt that 5/8 produces double pressure comparing to coiled hose.

I feel that this is working very well and there's no need to close the seacocks or install perko vlalves.

Alex.

 

[Alex F]

Guys,

I spent a hour searching on line for a good combo of bronze fittings to minimize the number required to re-finish this job. Anyone have a great source for bronze/brass plumbing? I'll need 1 1/4" T's, reductions to 3/4"...

John,
Were you able to find the parts? I'm done with the mains but I have hard time finding "T" for hooking it to genny. If I'm not mistaken my hose from strainer to genny is 3/4". Ideally, I would need 3/4x5/8x3/4 since from the locker I've used 5/8 hoses. But, if I can find just 3/4 T I'd be happy as well. I'll get the reducer from HD. I would appreaciate any help with suppliers links.

BTW, the Ts you've used, were you able to double clamped them?

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[Hampton]

NOTE TO THE NEXT GUY - Don't use 5/8 hoses. There aren't many fittings for them. I think I used a 3/4 T and the 5/8 went over it fine. All are double-clamped, but there isn't a lot of extra room for clamps. You really have to place them strategically. I bought all of these parts locally. I just kept hunting around. I found them at our best, home-grown marine store.

 

[Alex F]

I totally agree with you John. For anyone who will be thinking about the project it's best to pick a size that you'll have no trouble finding fittings. I would think 3/4" is the best choice, but 1/2" might work as well.

I was running around and had a hard time finding 3/4" to 5/8" barb. I found it in local marine supply but in BRASS. The "T" and other fittings are BRONZE. They told me that brass will be fine even in salt water. Do you agree with that or should I continue dealing with the pain of searching some more for the same fitting in bronze?

Thx,
Alex.

 

[rondds]

alex
i used brass valves on mine (the rest was bronze). and it looks as good as it did 4 years ago when i installed it. you probalby have to watch the fittings for deterioration (dissimilar metals in an electrolytic environment) but if you used teflon tape, it will help protect from contact.

 

[Hampton]

This will be in fresh water only. Go with whatever you find.

 

[Alex F]

Important WARNING on keeping your engines safe while flushing!

I had an very unpleasant situation last weekend while flushing the engines. As with any new application there’s some risk involved and the setups we have shared here are no exception. So, as I pulled up in the slip and proceeded with my usual routine, my neighbor started talking to me, which distracted me from paying 100% attention to what I was doing. As a result, I ended up leaving the valves in the ON position instead of OFF :smt021. As I was arranging other items and was cleaning the boat I had noticed that my water hose makes strange noise making me think that there’s a running water while I don’t see anything coming out of the boat (no one was using the water on the boat). I opened the stern locker and was shocked when I saw both valves in ON position. I felt like my hart rate just jumped 300% :smt100. I remember reading in the manual that when flushing the engines (my boat has factory flushing kit installed) the water cannot be on for longer than 30 seconds, otherwise the engines could be damaged. Knowing this fact, I thought for a second that I might have “killed” both of my engines, because the time between I had finished flushing the engines and turned the valves finally off was around 15 minutes (I’m guessing here).

My next steps:

• Obviously I told myself not to panic and reminded that every problem has a solution and I just have to find the best one.
• As soon as I turned off both valves, I’ve noticed that small amount of water came out of exhausts on each side. I’m guessing may be a quart or so from each side. This observation gave me two clues:
  • There water level did exceed the normal levels
  • Possibly, the extra water level wasn’t critical due to the amount of water coming out of the exhausts.
• Knowing the fact that the engine had extra level of water, my next thought was that I have to get the water out. The best way I know was to drain the blocks the same way I did while winterizing the engine (take out the blue plugs all the way at the bottom where flushing kit ends). So, I took the plugs out and drained both engines.
• I had waited a little and had started the engines.
• All appeared to be normal, so I flushed the engines again and called it a day.

In conclusion, this incident was a true test to the complete flushing setup I did and methods I use.

• Don’t let small distraction pull you away from important tasks.
• I’d like to believe that the fact that I don’t close the sea cocks while flushing and not having PERKO valves installed was the primary SAVIOR for my engines. I think that with pressure a good amount of water was exiting through sea strainers and sea cocks.

I just wanted to share this with everyone and see what you think, was my observation/conclusion a correct one? Do you think the were some damage done to the engines?

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[rondds]

alex
i always wondered if the impellers, which is extremely hard to spin and are squished into the housing, would prove to be water tight preventing water ingestion if such an occasion were to occur. i think that you have somewhat proved this. i'm guessing that the garden hose water would seek the path of least resistance and exit below the boat. probalby all you did was freshen up the bay water a bit! glad it worked out OK!

also, i am a FIRM believer in paying very close attention when flushing. NEVER leave a pot boiling and NEVER leave your post while flushing!

 

[Hampton]

As long as you don't leave the valves open when you run then engines - that's a bad one. I always check the valves are in the correct position before starting the engines. That's when we pull the electrical chords, so it's no big deal.

 

[rondds]

deleted

 

[Hampton]

Important WARNING on keeping your engines safe while flushing!

I had an very unpleasant situation last weekend while flushing the engines. As with any new application there’s some risk involved and the setups we have shared here are no exception. So, as I pulled up in the slip and proceeded with my usual routine, my neighbor started talking to me, which distracted me from paying 100% attention to what I was doing. As a result, I ended up leaving the valves in the ON position instead of OFF :smt021. As I was arranging other items and was cleaning the boat I had noticed that my water hose makes strange noise making me think that there’s a running water while I don’t see anything coming out of the boat (no one was using the water on the boat). I opened the stern locker and was shocked when I saw both valves in ON position. I felt like my hart rate just jumped 300% :smt100. I remember reading in the manual that when flushing the engines (my boat has factory flushing kit installed) the water cannot be on for longer than 30 seconds, otherwise the engines could be damaged. Knowing this fact, I thought for a second that I might have “killed” both of my engines, because the time between I had finished flushing the engines and turned the valves finally off was around 15 minutes (I’m guessing here).

My next steps:

• Obviously I told myself not to panic and reminded that every problem has a solution and I just have to find the best one.
• As soon as I turned off both valves, I’ve noticed that small amount of water came out of exhausts on each side. I’m guessing may be a quart or so from each side. This observation gave me two clues:
  • There water level did exceed the normal levels
  • Possibly, the extra water level wasn’t critical due to the amount of water coming out of the exhausts.
• Knowing the fact that the engine had extra level of water, my next thought was that I have to get the water out. The best way I know was to drain the blocks the same way I did while winterizing the engine (take out the blue plugs all the way at the bottom where flushing kit ends). So, I took the plugs out and drained both engines.
• I had waited a little and had started the engines.
• All appeared to be normal, so I flushed the engines again and called it a day.

In conclusion, this incident was a true test to the complete flushing setup I did and methods I use.

• Don’t let small distraction pull you away from important tasks.
• I’d like to believe that the fact that I don’t close the sea cocks while flushing and not having PERKO valves installed was the primary SAVIOR for my engines. I think that with pressure a good amount of water was exiting through sea strainers and sea cocks.

I just wanted to share this with everyone and see what you think, was my observation/conclusion a correct one? Do you think the were some damage done to the engines?

Thanks,
Alex.

It seems that in order to do damage with the through hulls open, you would have had to create enough fresh water flow to overpower the through hull (hole in the bottom of the boat) and then have enough flow at great enough pressure to actually begin to fill up the exhaust and then the open engine exhaust valves. I don't think that's likely.

 

[wileecoyote]

OK just got back and here are the pics of the flush kit. Notice that the port side it right under the exhaust hose. I know the bilge is filthy:smt021 Thats on next years list. If anyone knows where I can get a flattop ballcrank with a 3/4 male and hose fitting, I would put it in place. A tip, always put the hose on the new fitting first. Mine was really tight, and the seacock was much easier to get on.

Starboard side first pic
Port side second pic
Close on port.