Fresh Water Rinse Manifold '05 340Da

[Hampton]

Today I built a fresh-water rinse manifold for both engines and the genny. I oufitted it with two garden hose connectors for sufficient flow, 5 ball valves to select water flow, a 1" inside diameter main body, 3/4 ID for the engine hoses, and 5/8 ID for the genny. I ordered bronze ball valves with threaded male and female fittings to fit to the tops of the strainers. I ordered 1" ID for the engines, in case I decide to double my hoses to increase flow. I ordered a 3/4" ID ball valve for the genny.

It's pretty simple. Can't find the camera right now. I'll mount it in the transom locker against the forward wall, and run the water hoses to port through the dividing wall, then down into the engine room to the ball valves on the strainers. I intend to replace most/all raw water cooled items, then keep them rinsed.

 

[Alex F]

John,

I was thinking to do something similar. If you could share some pictures that'll be great. So far I've come across PERKO valves, but the idea of having plastic ball valves doesn't give me lots of comfort level. Bronze ball valves is something that sounds much more attractive.

Thx,
Alex.

 

[blueeyeboatr]

Also sounds like something I have benn thinking of, Really need to see picks and how are you shutting off the raw water supply with out raising the hatch??

 

[Hampton]

Also sounds like something I have benn thinking of, Really need to see picks and how are you shutting off the raw water supply with out raising the hatch??

My gameplan is to provide more water flow from my manifold under pressure than the engines demand (at idle). There will be positive pressure and positive flow of fresh water out of the raw water intakes during flushing, so there will be no need to turn the water raw water supply off. This may also kill off some growth inside the intakes (barnacles).

 

[blueeyeboatr]

get pics or write up a diagram

Please

 

[rondds]

the manifold idea is awesome, but i was way too lazy for that. here's what i did. also, it gets me in the bilge at least once every weekend - to flush and nose around for problems and increased familiarity. check stuffing boxes, fuel filters, fluids, etc. i know, brass gate valve is a no-no. i'll get around to replacing that - but after 3 full seasons, there is no deterioration or corrosion. i keep a coiled up stainless steel washing machine hose attached to each gate valve for easy connection. everyone makes fun of me at the marina for diligently flushing at the end of each weekend but i truly believe it will add many years to the life of the engines.

i did NOT set this up for the generator

 

[Hampton]

I'll try to load this image. On the right, there are the two hose intakes. To the top left, there are the two engine feeds, and to the lower left, the gen feed.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3018&stc=1&d=1210958302

 

[douglee25]

the manifold idea is awesome, but i was way too lazy for that. here's what i did. also, it gets me in the bilge at least once every weekend - to flush and nose around for problems and increased familiarity. check stuffing boxes, fuel filters, fluids, etc. i know, brass gate valve is a no-no. i'll get around to replacing that - but after 3 full seasons, there is no deterioration or corrosion. i keep a coiled up stainless steel washing machine hose attached to each gate valve for easy connection. everyone makes fun of me at the marina for diligently flushing at the end of each weekend but i truly believe it will add many years to the life of the engines.

i did NOT set this up for the generator

I'm assuming you connect those valves directly to your water supply at the dock? Nice setup.

Doug

 

[rondds]

doug:
i've got one of these babies permanently connected to each valve. they stay in place coiled in the bilge.

 

[Hampton]

Yep, the two at the right will connect to two hoses at the dock. This is primarily for foreign docks. Ours has incredible pressure and flow. I'm right at the beginning where the PVC lines are at least 3".

 

[Hampton]

I installed the manifold, drilled holes, inserted a bulkhead fitting with 4200, ran the lines through it, and secured them in the engine room. I'm waiting for the bronze ball valves to have them installed on the tops of the strainers.

http://www.kitecommunity.com/compon...img_pictures/originals/user_4802_IMG_2308.JPG

 

[Alex F]

John,
Very nice setup. I've used similar parts for winterizing process container, but I was thinking about bronze valves as a permanent solution on flushing kit. How often to you flush? Genny too? Isn't genny a fresh water cooled?

When you say "This is primarily for foreign docks" what do you mean, how are they different?
You've mentioned that your dock has great water pressure. Mine looks like a regular pressure I observe from garden hose by my house. would this be enough pressure to avoid shutting seacocks?

Thx,
Alex.

 

[Hampton]

I have never flushed on this boat. I will flush the engines and generator after each use. I flushed 100% of the time on my 250Da (10 years) and I never replaced anything due to corrosion (exhaust manifolds, risers - nothing). They were checked annually.

They are all fresh water cooled - using a salt water heat exchanger (engine and genny). I'll rinse them.

By foreign docks, I mean any dock other than mine, in case the water flow is low.

To check the rinse flow, I plan on running a test:

1) I'll catch water from the engine exhaust in a bucket and use a gauge I have to measure the ppm of dissolved solids in the water (salt water reading).

2) I'll run the rinse system with ball valves closed to stop salt intake, catch the water, and measure the ppm (fresh water reading).

3) I'll open the seacock ball valve to allow salt water the freedom to enter, turn on the fresh water rinse, allow it to run for a while, then measure the ppm (fresh water rinse reading). I fully expect this to match number 2 above.

Another way to test: Catch your side exhaust in a bucket - note the time it takes to fill the bucket (does any go out the bottom at idle?). Put your rinse hose into same bucket and note the time it takes to fill the bucket. Compare. If your hose supplies more than the boat exhausts, then your fresh water rinse should over-power the salt water flow.

My favorite test: I always did this with my 250. Run the fresh water rinse and taste the exhaust. I actually washed my face and hands in the warm, fresh water exhaust flow as I rinsed my 250Da's motor on the trailer using the ear muffs.

This system will work. The limiting factor will be running the engines with the fresh water, bronze ball valves open. The fresh water hoses will collapse and there will be a vacuum draw at the manifold. Air leaks would decrease impeller pick-up of salt water while running the boat. That would be bad. I plan to test one engine before running the other. On any trips over 1/2 hour or so, I'll probably shut off the fresh water ball valves at the strainers. Otherwise, I'll closely monitor the cooling water pressure and engine temperatures.

Even if the vacuum is too great on the hoses and manifold, I will consider this a successful system. I will open the engine hatch and shut off the through hulls during rinse time, then I'll shut off the fresh water valves when I'm done (and open the through-hulls). I will be successful in that I won't have to haul the garden hose past the new camper canvas, into the cockpit, into the engine room... My cockpit is dry and like a living room to us. I don't want to drag a hose through the living room (STS).

 

[douglee25]

You could just tap your fresh water holding tank and plumb that for your water rinse. That way you'd pretty much be self sufficient as long as the tanks are full.

Doug

 

[Hampton]

You could just tap your fresh water holding tank and plumb that for your water rinse. That way you'd pretty much be self sufficient as long as the tanks are full.

Doug

I was actually thinking of going the other way around and running another line to my fresh water tank to fill it from the transom.

 

[Alex F]

You could just tap your fresh water holding tank and plumb that for your water rinse. That way you'd pretty much be self sufficient as long as the tanks are full.

Doug

Doug,
I would think this is an overkill unless you're on a mooring ball most of the time. Otherwise, if you don't have access to the water hose, I would guess you didn't reach your destination. Lets be realistic, if we're away for a weekend or even a week and don't use transiant slips where the engines can be flushed, it's not a big deal. Lets not forget that most people don't flush inboards anyway.

Just MHO,
Alex.

 

[Alex F]

John,
Looks like you have everything planned nicely. I’m still trying to understand/clarify couple of things.


1. “By foreign docks, I mean any dock other than mine, in case the water flow is low.”
If I read this correctly, your plan is to attach second hose, assuming you have access to a different line nearby. But, if you connect the second hose to the same line I would think the water pressure wouldn’t change.

2. “The limiting factor will be running the engines with the fresh water, bronze ball valves open. The fresh water hoses will collapse and there will be a vacuum draw at the manifold. Air leaks would decrease impeller pick-up of salt water while running the boat. That would be bad. I plan to test one engine before running the other. On any trips over 1/2 hour or so, I'll probably shut off the fresh water ball valves at the strainers. Otherwise, I'll closely monitor the cooling water pressure and engine temperatures. Even if the vacuum is too great on the hoses and manifold, I will consider this a successful system. I will open the engine hatch and shut off the through hulls during rinse time, then I'll shut off the fresh water valves when I'm done (and open the through-hulls).”
While designing the system I was planning to use the type of hoses similar to what Ron has in his pictures “Marine wet exhaust and water hose”. By looking at the hoses you’ve used I think I understand what you mean that they could collapse from vacuum draw.

My engines are RWC with factory installed flushing kit. The hose is mounted with quick connect where I connect the garden hose. My idea of the project to make the flushing process simple with minimal effort (open/close hatch, close/open sea-cocks, drag the hose through the cockpit in to the engine room). I’m thinking to do similar setup in the stern locker but use bronze ball valves. On the other end (inside engine room) I guess I have two options, 1-connect to existing quick connect fitting (no changes needed to factory setup), 2-install additional bronze ball valve. I’m still not sure what option is better.

If I’m reading your procedure correctly, the only improvement you’re getting with your installation, is not having to drag the hose through the cockpit and connect it in the engine room. If you wont have to close/open the fresh water ball valve in the engine room, then this would add great benefit. If I’m not mistaken, if you would replace the hoses with the one I mentioned, the vacuum issue shouldn’t be there.

3. The bucket test is pretty interesting. I’ve seen the one by tasting, although didn’t try it yet myself.

Regards,
Alex.

 

[Hampton]

Alex,

Garden hoses are 5/8". Nothing in my system is that small. Attaching two will not change the pressure, but the flow. It will remove the garden hose as the limiting factor in the total water flow.

The collapsing hoses is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as they are not permanently distorted. In my mind, it will alleviate some of the vacuum stress on the manifold and decrease the chance of a failure. If the system is great except the hoses, I'll change them out.

My ball valves on top of the strainers are bronze, just like the through-hulls. In the event of total manifold failure, shutting these (on top of strainer) brings me back to square one - a fully functional boat.

I fully believe that this system will operate from the transom - thus the effort. I plan on rinsing for about 5 minutes/engine once everything has been tested and is fully operational. I will taste the exhaust to determine when it's done. I imagine it'll be a lot quicker than with the 250 since these engines are, technically, fresh water cooled - there's a lost less surface area to rinse, and it's mostly smooth surfaces.

Edit: The salt water makes an amazingly short circuit in FW cooled boats: In through the strainer, through the transmission cooler, through a fuel cooler, through the engine's heat exchanger, then into the exhaust manifold and out (roughly) - about a 10' journey. In my 250, it went through the BIII, engine block (etc), up under the cockpit to the cockpit heater heat exchanger, into through and around the hot water heater, then out - At least a 30 foot journey through all sorts of cavities, caverns, holes...

Excellent comments. Thanks.

 

[Hampton]

I have changed my mind on the attachment point for the FW hoses. They are going to be put in line with the SW intake hoses instead of mounted on top of the strainers. Frank W helped me out with this plan. It was my original plan, but I was steered away from it last year when I started this project. Here's the valves ready to be inserted in line:

http://www.kitecommunity.com/compon...mg_pictures/originals/user_4802_IMG_2315A.JPG

NOTE: I plan to tap in between the strainer and the engines. The reason is 1) limit resistance 2) ability to back-wash the strainers out the bottom 3) Better length/location of hose to tap in to.

 

[fwebster]

John,

DO NOT use schedule 40 gray pipe fittings on engine cooling. Use only brass or bronze. The plastic has an expansion coefficient much different the the brass to which you have it attached and the plastic is going to crack at some point. Since the plastic in your planned installation is in-line to the main water supply, you run the risk of flooding the boat or burning up an engine when it lets go.