Face Shields..

I am talking about threats of use of force against a properly elected government.
You’ve kinda hit the nail on the head regarding the 2nd Amendment. The whole idea of it is for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And when a person running for office says publicly that they are coming to take away one of your constitutional rights if elected, it’s best to be prepared.
 
You’ve kinda hit the nail on the head regarding the 2nd Amendment. The whole idea of it is for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And when a person running for office says publicly that they are coming to take away one of your constitutional rights if elected, it’s best to be prepared.
That is exactly what I was talking about. Horrifying that people would think that is the right answer to a duly elected government. If for example 70% of the people (and the 2/3 of Congress and the Senate) wanted to change part of the constitution (it consists of many amendments, that were put in place over time. So changes can happen and have happened), but you and the other 30% didn't want it to change. Does that mean you would call it a tyrannical government taking away your rights under the constitution and feel you have the right to use weapons against the government? What if it is 52% of the people and that party controlled the senate and congress and were able to push through a law you didn't like?
 
I give you Obamacare. Horrible, absolutely horrible piece of legislature. The reason healthcare has gotten so expensive in the US is because of health insurance companies. Healthcare would be a whole different ballgame if all healthcare entities were run by medical professionals instead of people with MBAs. Healthcare has no place being run as a business. And if you REALLY want to screw it up, let the US Government run it! Believe me, I had government managed healthcare for 13 years and you couldn’t pay me to take it back.

Any government that desires to remove liberty and freedoms from it’s citizens is tyrannical. Just because I don’t like who is in office doesn’t make the government tyrannical, of course. Obama was a horrible President and I served under him. I didn’t like him as President and I think he is a weak leader. Didn’t wish him any ill will though. Sure, there are lots of “what ifs” that could be debated forever regarding certain circumstances.
 
That is exactly what I was talking about. Horrifying that people would think that is the right answer to a duly elected government. If for example 70% of the people (and the 2/3 of Congress and the Senate) wanted to change part of the constitution (it consists of many amendments, that were put in place over time. So changes can happen and have happened), but you and the other 30% didn't want it to change. Does that mean you would call it a tyrannical government taking away your rights under the constitution and feel you have the right to use weapons against the government? What if it is 52% of the people and that party controlled the senate and congress and were able to push through a law you didn't like?

That would definitely be cause to take up arms against a tyrannical government, because it would be unconstitutional. We need 2/3 of each house of Congress to call a convention. All amendments must be ratified by 3/4 of the states. So 70% of the people don't mean jack chit.

In 233 years we have only had 27 amendments, 10 of which where done in the first 2 years. Only 3 in the past 50 years. None, since the invention of the interweb. It's not easy to do.

And various congresses have pushed thru many laws people didn't like. To armed rebellion has taken place.
 
That would definitely be cause to take up arms against a tyrannical government, because it would be unconstitutional. We need 2/3 of each house of Congress to call a convention. All amendments must be ratified by 3/4 of the states. So 70% of the people don't mean jack chit.

In 233 years we have only had 27 amendments, 10 of which where done in the first 2 years. Only 3 in the past 50 years. None, since the invention of the interweb. It's not easy to do.

And various congresses have pushed thru many laws people didn't like. To armed rebellion has taken place.
I was making a point and used 70% deliberately because at 70% of the people, I expected it would meet all of the other things needed. So thanks for clarifying. So now, assuming all of those criteria were met, if you were in the 30%, do you believe you should be able to start an armed rebellion? The last sentence of your post may have a typo. Are you saying "No" rebellion has taken place? Does that mean you are saying it won't happen and people will respect the process?
 
I was making a point and used 70% deliberately because at 70% of the people, I expected it would meet all of the other things needed. So thanks for clarifying. So now, assuming all of those criteria were met, if you were in the 30%, do you believe you should be able to start an armed rebellion? The last sentence of your post may have a typo. Are you saying "No" rebellion has taken place? Does that mean you are saying it won't happen and people will respect the process?
For umpteen year the media has been suggesting that several armed groups will be taking up arms against the government. Has yet to happen. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. And here's the thing, if only a small percentage decided to rebel, it would be put down pretty quick. You'll need more than 30% of the population on you're side. Unless of course you're a current rioter.
 
For umpteen year the media has been suggesting that several armed groups will be taking up arms against the government. Has yet to happen. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. And here's the thing, if only a small percentage decided to rebel, it would be put down pretty quick. You'll need more than 30% of the population on you're side. Unless of course you're a current rioter.
OK, I get what you are saying. I hope your are right.
 
That is exactly what I was talking about. Horrifying that people would think that is the right answer to a duly elected government. If for example 70% of the people (and the 2/3 of Congress and the Senate) wanted to change part of the constitution (it consists of many amendments, that were put in place over time. So changes can happen and have happened), but you and the other 30% didn't want it to change. Does that mean you would call it a tyrannical government taking away your rights under the constitution and feel you have the right to use weapons against the government? What if it is 52% of the people and that party controlled the senate and congress and were able to push through a law you didn't like?
To Amend the Constitution, the amendment needs to pass by 2/3 vote in both the House and the Senate. If passed then it is "supposed" to be ratified through three fourths of the States to pass. It hasn't in the past.

We are not a Democracy. 52% doesn't get to decide my BILL OF RIGHTS. The minority of voters do not lose their Bill of Rights because there is a majority in the Government of what ever party is in power.

Here's the difference between a Democracy and a Republic that was explained to me.

Democracy = 5 Men see a woman on the street and decide to rape her.
Republic = She has a gun.
 
To Amend the Constitution, the amendment needs to pass by 2/3 vote in both the House and the Senate. If passed then it is "supposed" to be ratified through three fourths of the States to pass. It hasn't in the past.

We are not a Democracy. 52% doesn't get to decide my BILL OF RIGHTS. The minority of voters do not lose their Bill of Rights because there is a majority in the Government of what ever party is in power.

Here's the difference between a Democracy and a Republic that was explained to me.

Democracy = 5 Men see a woman on the street and decide to rape her.
Republic = She has a gun.
Unfortunately, this is what so many people fail to understand. The Founders where petrified of a true Democracy. Our whole system is set up to protect the rights of the minority position -- and the majority can't just vote them rights away. The US is advanced citizenship.
 
I am doing what the Canadian Health Authorities recommend. Full stop. I have trust in our system in Canada and that is because its working here. Our numbers of cases and hospitalizations re down and our economies are slowly opening. Its working because many more Canadians are following the recommendations than are not. Something is very different in the US. I don't think its because Americans are more susceptible to COVID-19. Its what you are doing that is different.
Dude, Canada has performed a whopping 3.8 million tests, the United Tates has tested nearly 49 million. Do you understand that that the more people tested will result in more positives?
 
Dude, Canada has performed a whopping 3.8 million tests, the United Tates has tested nearly 49 million. Do you understand that that the more people tested will result in more positives?
More tests does catch more positives but the 'percentage' of positives has increased too, from 4.4% positive in mid June to 7.8% as of 7/30.
positives.JPG
 
As a Canadian I hear all too often from my fellow countrymen (sorry countrymxn - haha) about how superior we are when it comes to Covid19. Unbelievable. It's so unlike us to be so bloody arrogant.

The testing numbers with 3.8million vs 49million for the US is one thing, but we have 1/10 of the population which is spread over a much larger geographic area. People are simply not as concentrated geographically as most of the US. That may also have a bearing.

Meanwhile, what I've observed is that the majority of people in my area have little concern of Covid. Social distancing is not usually observed, people gather in large groups and sit next to each other unmasked, and many still hug upon meeting all seeming to be content saying "you're in my bubble right?". Apparently everyone new that you meet is automatically in your safe "bubble". There is a smaller very vocal, militant group that make sure that they are heard and are getting their way. Two weeks ago our city council voted down a motion to have mandatory masking in indoor public spaces. They chirped big time. Council readdressed the issue and today is the first day of mandatory masking in public spaces. Typical politicians - like trees blowing in the wind, they bend to whatever wind blows hardest.

Masking in restaurants makes zero sense to me. You mask to show up and to leave, but unmask for 75% of the time while you're eating/drinking??? Nuts.
 
More tests does catch more positives but the 'percentage' of positives has increased too, from 4.4% positive in mid June to 7.8% as of 7/30.
View attachment 89441
Yes but at the same time the population you're testing is changing. Early on, you needed symptoms to test. Now you don't. The number they are not reporting is asymptomatic positives. Without that number, we don't know chit. In other words, how many people are actually sick vs. just carrying the virus?
 
I think you also have to take into consideration the influx of illegal immigrants and legal immigrants into the U.S. Add to that the transients from EU and Asia including China. I don't think CA has to suffer this phenomenon.
 
Dude, Canada has performed a whopping 3.8 million tests, the United Tates has tested nearly 49 million. Do you understand that that the more people tested will result in more positives?
Dude, do you realize that as a percentage of the population that is almost exactly the same level of testing?
 
I give you Obamacare. Horrible, absolutely horrible piece of legislature. The reason healthcare has gotten so expensive in the US is because of health insurance companies. Healthcare would be a whole different ballgame if all healthcare entities were run by medical professionals instead of people with MBAs. Healthcare has no place being run as a business. And if you REALLY want to screw it up, let the US Government run it! Believe me, I had government managed healthcare for 13 years and you couldn’t pay me to take it back.

Any government that desires to remove liberty and freedoms from it’s citizens is tyrannical. Just because I don’t like who is in office doesn’t make the government tyrannical, of course. Obama was a horrible President and I served under him. I didn’t like him as President and I think he is a weak leader. Didn’t wish him any ill will though. Sure, there are lots of “what ifs” that could be debated forever regarding certain circumstances.

I agree Obama was not effective. Highly principled, but ineffective. Obamacare was an attempt at finding heath care reform without going to a government run system like the UK, Canada, Australia etc. Problem is you have ended up with the worst of both systems, not the best. Personally I think a hybrid is impossible. You either revert to the old system or start over. Canada did it a long time ago when the world was a simpler place and big pharma did not exist. Its a MUCH bigger issue now.

I agree that running health care as a business introduces a profit maximization element that is not good. Hospitals motivated to run up huge bills, insurance companies motivated to deny coverage to pay for those bills, and the American citizens helplessly caught in the middle, but ultimately paying the entire cost through insurance. Well run governments can do a better job, but "well run government" is an oxymoron. We have an interesting model in Ontario. The lefts don't like it, but I think it makes sense. Hospitals (government owned and run)are incented with funding for expansion or new equipment based on a number of metrics that they are evaluated on. Some of the metrics are offsetting. Like emergency room flow, cost reduction, patient satisfaction, emergency waits, surgery waits. I don't know them all, but they work to ensure funding goes to hospitals that are well run and are in areas that have growing needs (high growth areas). Its not perfect but the province can tweak the metrics to "guide the ship".
 
Here's the difference between a Democracy and a Republic that was explained to me.

Democracy = 5 Men see a woman on the street and decide to rape her.
Republic = She has a gun.

This explains a lot. But not the way you think it does.
 

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