Crash valves or intake diverter valves on the seacocks

[Vince_nj1]

BTW, after goign throught this thread and the one I was referring to earlier people may think what are the chances to collide with a whale? I agree, but hitting a log is much higher chance and I don't see a huge difference between hitting a whale or a large size log, which can make a hole in the hull much faster due to sharp edges or something like branches sticking out. This though is aways in my mind when I think about Hudson river or anywhere in that area. Actually, when I was delivering my friend's boat from Hungtingto LI last season we came only few feet away from hitting half of the floating telephone pole. That's when I said good think that his boat doesn't go faster than 8pmh. Imagine hitting this thing at cruising speed with your Sea Ray?

Alex

My boating experience started in the Jersey City/Bayonne/lower Hudson area. I spent over 10 years boating in those waters. Logs and other debris were (and still are) a fact of life and I did hit a few. The difference is that you expect debris to be in the water and you spend most of your time scanning the water for it. Hitting a whale on the ocean is not something you expect or would even see coming. (I'm sure the chance of getting struck by lightening is much higher.)

Your comments are valid, but I would not avoid a trip to Long Island or the Hudson out of fear of hitting something. You just need to keep an eye out for debris and plan on making course changes. If you find your self out at night, just keep it slow. One trick that I used to do was to follow another boat heading in the same direction. My theory was that if something was in the water, the guy in front would hit it first or change course to avoid it. Debris in the water is worse after a high tide and a heavy rain.

15+ years ago most of the really dangerous crap floating around Manhattan came from rotting docks and piers. Thankfully, most of that has been cleaned up. Today most of the big items floating around are tree branches that float down the Hudson River. They are usually pretty easy to see and avoid.

For what it is worth, I don't know of any stories where a boat actually sank because they hit a log. However I have seen some hull damage, busted sterndrives and plenty of bent props sitting around the marinas as a result of hitting something submerged.

 

[Turtlesboat]

There's a 500 for sale in NJ that hit a log and sank in the hudson below the GW bridge. They raised it and cleaned it up. Can be yours for $50k.

I don't plane much if at all in NY harbor or the east river, especially after a big storm. I've seen whole lifeguard stations floating in the sound after big storms. I've gone over submerged dock pilings in NY harbor. Never knew they were there until my props took a bite out of them. Just go slow.

 

[Vince_nj1]

There's a 500 for sale in NJ that hit a log and sank in the hudson below the GW bridge.

Update.. I only know of 1 story where a boat hit a log and sank..

Thanks Mike! :thumbsup:

 

[Turtlesboat]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Make: Sea Ray [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model: 500 Sundancer [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model Type: Express Cruiser[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Year: 1996
Length: 50'
Beam: 15'
Draft: 4'[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Engine:[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Twin Detroit 6V92, 550 hp.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fuel Tankage: 550 gals.
Water Tankage: 150 gals.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Hull Material: Fiberglass
Location of Unit: Mendon, MA
Stock #: YS091004[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Note: Insurance Salvage[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Email: brian@certifiedsales.com
Call: 508-478-0200[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Viewing Instructions[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For Transportation, Parts, Storage & more...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]General [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Description [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Accomodations and Layout[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Vessel has a master suite with private head, Vacu-flush toilet, enclosed shower and sink. Boat layout also includes a double berth with private head, Vacu-flush toilet and shower. There is a group sofa with two stools for extra seating. There is a built in dinette and sink in the galley.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Actual Condition
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This Yacht hit a pole or log that was floating in the East River in New York/New Jersey. It was re-floated and taken to a marina in New Jersey where extensive cleaning and stabilization was done. Because of these efforts the Yacht shows very well for a boat that went through this type of damage. From the photos you can see that some of the hatch covers and swim platform are missing. The impact of the pole against the shafts pushed the struts up into the bottom and allowed the boat to take on the water.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Electrical system will need repairing. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[Alex F]

You all need to remember Bernoulli's law here... a 2" hole about 2' below the water line (like losing a 1" shaft in a small boat) is going to dump just under 7000 gallons per hour in your boat... putting something in that can do 200 gph is like pissing up a rope.

Gary,

Your point is valid. If one sits and cries while watching the water rushing in to the boat for one hour that's exactly whay he'll be facing with 7000 gallons. However, I'm trying to highlight and also learn from the hitting the whale story is that they had water rushing in possibly even at faster rate than 7K GPH, but they used extra pump(s) and were constantly working on blocking the whole where the water was entering the boat. As we can see this ended very successfully.

 

[Four Suns]

Gary,

Your point is valid. If one sits and cries while watching the water rushing in to the boat for one hour that's exactly whay he'll be facing with 7000 gallons. However, I'm trying to highlight and also learn from the hitting the whale story is that they had water rushing in possibly even at faster rate than 7K GPH, but they used extra pump(s) and were constantly working on blocking the whole where the water was entering the boat. As we can see this ended very successfully.

I agree. Step one is to seal the hole as best as you can... the pumps can only evacuate after things are sealed. If you can't seal the hole, time to break out the 'spare' boat (i.e. liferaft). There was some post on CSR some time ago about a person who was discussing how the pumps could keep up with a 'gash' and that's just not going to happen. I personally believe that if you hit something, the biggest issue is ripping the running gear off... and that'll leave big holes... punching a hole in fiberglass is harder than tearing the rudder off.

 

[Alex F]

Logs and other debris were (and still are) a fact of life and I did hit a few. The difference is that you expect debris to be in the water and you spend most of your time scanning the water for it. Hitting a whale on the ocean is not something you expect or would even see coming. (I'm sure the chance of getting struck by lightening is much higher.)

I agree, but IMO whale is just another possible "object" (just extreme one) that is possible to hit.

Your comments are valid, but I would not avoid a trip to Long Island or the Hudson out of fear of hitting something. You just need to keep an eye out for debris and plan on making course changes. If you find your self out at night, just keep it slow. One trick that I used to do was to follow another boat heading in the same direction. My theory was that if something was in the water, the guy in front would hit it first or change course to avoid it.

Vince, with over 10yrs of owning several SR models I would be one of the last people who would cancel a trip thinking that there's a chance to hit something. There's a saying "if you're affraid of wolfs don't go in the forest", I would consider myself fitting the opposite category. However, I would like to know as much as possible and be ready in case situation occurs. I've used "follow the guy in front" theory many times, but I think that in the event if the boat in from hits something chances are the following boat may not see it (unless it's something large and really stands out) and might hit the same object.

Thankfully, most of that has been cleaned up. Today most of the big items floating around are tree branches that float down the Hudson River. They are usually pretty easy to see and avoid.

This is where I disagree with you. I happened to hit a floating debree twice. Thank GOD none had done any damages, even to the props. However, while travelling slow I've seen somethings that I would never see beaing on pane and just do a visual scan. Just one trip alone from LI to NJ via NY Harbor was awakening call by itself. As you can see from Mike's comments he rarely stays on plane in those waters. That's the guy with great local knowledge, so I think that you go in those waters follow his advice.

For what it is worth, I don't know of any stories where a boat actually sank because they hit a log. However I have seen some hull damage, busted sterndrives and plenty of bent props sitting around the marinas as a result of hitting something submerged.

Even though we don't often hear and get the information we can't assume that this is very rare or doesn't happen.

Just my .02c

 

[Henry Boyd]

Alex,

I'm certainly not saying, and I don't think anyone else here is trying to say to not have a backup pump. However, as disaster planning goes, a crash pump is a tool of last resort. It is a last resort because:

1. If there is not enough capacity in the raw water pump(s) -> boat fills up with water, or

2. Debris clogs pickup, pump goes dry, impellers melt, engine shuts down -> boat fills up with water, or

3. RW pump has too much capacity and overtakes influx of water, pump goes dry, engine shuts down -> boat fills up with water.

In all cases the use of a crash pump requires close monitoring and active management.

Wouldn't a more reliable solution be to add more bilge pump capacity? Rule makes an 12v 8000 GPH unit that is two independent pumps with a common 3" dia. discharge. There is no management; pump goes on when there is water, and off when there is none. And there is no additional risk to engine, and eventual battery failure.

If you want to keep the crash pump hardware as plan C, great.

Henry

PS other folks posted additional stuff while I was writing. I think the big take away is that this whole activity is about buying time, time to plug a hole, time for help to arrive, time to get out a distress call.

 

[Presentation]

.....having the size of plumbing like Gary ....

That’s what she said! ba-dum-bum-CHING












(sorry)

 

[Turtlesboat]

I saw an episode of mythbusters where they used duct tape to fix a hole in a boat. Granted it was only a row boat, but it held for about 1/2 and hour.

what about that plumbers weld putty? You mix two putties for the reaction, then you have about 15-20 minutes to apply. Can be applied in water and it hardens like concrete.

 

[rcknecht]

Mike,

We used wood, cloth and string on the Navy Ships... Never used tape... Speed is important... Also, making sure you insurance premiums are paid is key...

Rod

 

[Turtlesboat]

I know the whalers used to take a sail and wrap it around the hull.

 

[Alex F]

...In all cases the use of a crash pump requires close monitoring and active management.

Wouldn't a more reliable solution be to add more bilge pump capacity? Rule makes an 12v 8000 GPH unit that is two independent pumps with a common 3" dia. discharge. There is no management; pump goes on when there is water, and off when there is none. And there is no additional risk to engine, and eventual battery failure.

If you want to keep the crash pump hardware as plan C, great.

I agree with you. The purpose of the thread is to exchange ideas and find best and cost effective solution. Adding 12v 8000GPH pump is another very good idea.

 

[Jack F]

Has anyone seen this product before, it look pretty handy.
What do you think?
http://www.stayafloatmarine.com/




[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=888wQhRcmjQ[/youtube]

 

[rcknecht]

Looks great... Never saw it before...

 

[quality time]

That does look like a great item to have on board. I wonder if it has a shelf life? Didn't see anything on their website.

 

[Four Suns]

Good find...

 

[Jack F]

That does look like a great item to have on board. I wonder if it has a shelf life? Didn't see anything on their website.

I had the same question so I sent them an email, I'll post their response.

It sure beats trying to cut or find the right size plug with water coming in, If it works as advertised.

 

[LTD.330]

I guess the guy is getting inundated. I sent him an email asking about shelf life and storage requirements/recommendations.

 

[quality time]

Definitely let us know his response, I'm going to order a tub.