Comments on 2000 460DA

[aquadancer]

In my quest to join the serious torque club, I will be taking a look at 2000 Searay 460DA with Cummins 6CTA 8.3M 430hp motors.

Boat was just traded in and (according to the dealer) is well maintained and in excellent cosmetic and mechanical condition.

I'm going to check it out this Wed. I'd appreciate any general comments on this boat/motor combination. More specifically:

any known issues?

performance / fuel consumption?

solid or cored hull?

availability of old service record from Cummins (like Cat)?

surveys needed (in addition to standard pre-purchase survey) / do Cummins dealers perform engine surveys?

Thanks in advance

 

[JC3]

Aquadancer, I went thru several 46DA'S over the last 5 to 6 months. I personally really,really liked them. We made an offer on a 2000 46 but it was refused. There is several board members with the 46 and some more with the Cummins engines. They will chime in soon. We ended up with a 1998 45DA for several reasons that i wont bore you with here. When the 46 guys respond they will really be able to help. JC

 

[JC3]

Aquadancer, I went thru several 46DA'S over the last 5 to 6 months. I personally really,really liked them. We made an offer on a 2000 46 but it was refused. There is several board members with the 46 and some more with the Cummins engines. They will chime in soon. We ended up with a 1998 45DA for several reasons that i wont bore you with here. When the 46 guys respond they will really be able to help. JC

 

[Skip]

I have 6CTA 8.3M3 450s with 254 hours on them in my 03 420. I think they are really good engines. In 147 engine hours I averaged 20.54 GPH; the engines used less than 1/2 quart of oil total in that time; I do not do a lot of no-wake zone running unless we cruise to DC, which has a fair amount of no-wake. I cruise at 2100 RPMs, often against the current, with a fuel burn rate of ~24 GPH, and that produces ~24 knots in the 420, a bit more or less depending on current and wind. 2600 RPMs is WOT for my engines, and that gets me just under 32 knots, with a fuel burn of 44 GPH. I don't wind them that tight very often, or for an extended period.

The only trouble I had was a sticking thermostat on my starboard engine. Replaced the t-stats and had no other problems. I did all the winterization on the engines myself and found them pretty easy to work on and around, and I am not overly mechanically inclined.

If you can obtain the serial numbers for your engines, call your local Cummins distributor. They can give you the warranty history of your engines, plus any services performed by a Cummins dealer. Mine had a clean warranty history; we bought her with only 107 hours on the mains. If your boat has an Onan diesel gen set you can get the same warranty and service info from Cummins/Onan by using your generator serial number. Cummins also has a 600 hour/ three year warranty for selected big ticket items. I had Cummins do a complete mechanical survey (less a leak down test) and including oil analysis. The CUmmins tech was on time to the boat, very knowldgeable, and very helpful to me as these were my first diesels. I was sufficiently taken by the professionalism of the CUmmins Distrbutor that I am bringing them back for some routine maintenance items in the spring whcih are beyond my DiY comfort level. My Sea Ray dealer uses the exact same outfit to do their diesel work--Cummins Power Systems in Glen Burnie, Maryland. E-mail me if your boat is on the Chesapeake or any of the surrounding areas. I'll give you contact information for maintenance, parts, and the name of the technician to specify.

Again, these are, to me, the ideal combination for a 420. Even with full fuel, water, gear, and 14 people aboard, my 420 lifts and goes when the turbos kick in. Now that is a rush I hope I never get over. I'd imagine they are just fine for a 460, but I have never run that particular model dancer.

regards
Skip

 

[osd9]

Aquadancer...

I looked at a 460DA a few months ago...and there is one for sale down the canal from me right now.

I was close on one, but believe it not, the admiral put the brakes on me at that point......

I loved the boat, and I REALLY wanted to go for it....but the admiral was concerned that when we cruise with our neighbors, that we would be on different docks because of its size.....

The 460DA is a great boat...you've already had some nice comments above, and I'm sure Frank W will offer his expertise also....(when he comments...take notes)...good luck and keep us posted....

Oh, and take a look at our BIH trip in the midatlantic forum...you may want to join up with us.......and thanks for your advise on Boatus site...

 

[Petep]

Aquadancer, We have a 460 and we spent alot of time looking for this one. When we looked at them this is some of the things that were important to us; this boat had cored hull sides until hull #617 2001 model year. They also changed from Baltec core up to and around the deck intrusions (pulpit stantions, hatches. cleats etc.) to using the foam (penscke board) which is the latest and greatest for segreation from wicking of moisture core problems. This was done on this boat from 2002 with a build date of A code (Jan) in the HIN number. However the important thing for you like any Sea Ray purchase of this dollar amount is to have a good survey done to help in this. When you go on these boats if you head to the mid cabin and extend out the bed lift up the access hatch and look in there with a flashlight, If it's all brown, as many are, it's because most people with SRays dont clean out those shower sumps enough and they overflow back there. This needs to be cleaned right away or guaranteed it will be wet. I have a moisture meter and I've bought a few of these boats and know where to look. The boat handles as a large boat and handles itself well in a sea. The Cummins 6Cta's are found in many of the model year that you are looking at, Volvos show up also. The Volvos are nice but the service network of Cat & Cummins would make me want to lean away from a Volvo powered boat. (I hope that I'm not upsetting any Volvo guys because they do make a good product also). We have the "sudo-electronic" 480CE's, maybe not as nice as the QSm11's but very good power package for this rig. I may be rambeling on.....so PM me if you like if I can help in any way. The intent was not to start a Cored-Vs. Non-Cored agument as I won't get into that on the internet (we leave that to the Yacht Club Bar). Good luck in your search as we think the 460DA is a great boat.
As far as your performance question;Remember this is the 480CE's we pumped thru 4, 200 + gals of fuel and the Ship's log shows an avg.burn rate of 21.2 gph. We run the boat @ 2,100 rpms - 2,280 and we are going 23-25 mph.

 

[aquadancer]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I'll be waiting for Frank W to add more.

This is my first venture into diesel boats (overdue!) and I want to make sure I do the right due diligence. I don't even have complete specs yet as the trade-in deal was closed this past Sat. Got a heads up from my dealer yesterday.

Skip, she will end up on the upper Ches (hopefully), but for now this is a South Shore LI boat so I guess I will be using the local Cummins distributor up there for the engine survey. Base on SR factory specs, the OEC genny was 8.0kW Westerbeke.

Dom, BIH always sounds great. We do a "guys weekend" trip to BHI every Sep. If you wanna do it in the summer, book the slips now! I am also up for a Wildwood trip. Stayed at the Schooner Island for Labor Day 05 (based on your advised on the old SR board) and the whole gang had a great time.

I hope this 460 is as described. I will then actually be able to keep up on these longer trips !

I am sure I will bother you all with more questions later in the week.

Thanks !

 

[aquadancer]

Petep,

Good info on the coring. Sounds like this will be a balsa cored hull (2000 vintage). I have a very good surveyor but he will not be with me on the first trip this Wed.

I will look under the mid cabin berth as you advised and will look at all standard sgins of wetness.

Any other tell-tale signs of well cared for (or not) boat ?

Thanks

 

[Petep]

As with any other boat purchase get the best suveyor you know, the portlights , below the windshield, hull/deck intrusions etc. I could go on but that's what the survey is for. Overall maintenance logs and condition of the engine room & mechanicals. Many people do not realize the importance of P&M on a boat i.e. re-caulking etc.

 

[tc410]

...this boat had cored hull sides until hull #617 2001 model year...

Petep - you mention cored hull sides. Are you aware if there is coring below the water line on this model or does it have a solid bottom?

Jeff

 

[Petep]

They are layed up bottom boats. No core

 

[fwebster]

You guys don't need me...............y'all got it covered!

I can offer an opinion or 2 since I can compare the 460DA to other boats of a similar size. The 460 is a great design and replaces the 450 which is one of Sea Ray's all time best boats. The layout inside is superb and lacks for nothing in terms of comfort.

Running the boat is very straight forward and the 460 has no bad habits that will get you in serious trouble. They are ok and very forgiving around the dock, but they do not have that big Caterpillar torque. However, 460DA's do tend to be a little stern heavy......and that is worse with a hydraulic platform and a hardtop. You can expect those boats to run bow high and leave you blind for a little while as you come up on plane. It would be better if they ran flat and didn't have noticeable bow rise, but it is something that is entirely manageable. The stern heavy configuration also make you learn to be real careful in a heavy following sea or when transiting inlets with the sea behind you.

Some of the owner serviceable stuff in the engine room isn't readily accessible, but you can do it. I also think the engine room could have a better layout...it looks almost like an after thought the way stuff is just parked about......like a/c pump is right behind the ladder down into the bilge. If you aren't careful with your big ol sized 12's as you climb down, you step right on the plastic impeller housing and break it off.

Personally, I prefer the 6CTA's to the QSC Cummins. Both are great engines....I just don't see enough gain in economy and soot/smoke reduction to warrant giving up the dependability of mechanical diesels. But, speaking out of the other side of my mouth, the electronic engines have so far been very dependable.......except for the guy who had to spend 10 hours coming 65 mile in limp home mode because of a faulty oxygen sensor.

Have your surveyor sound the hull near the chine along the sling position. Two 460's in our area had glass voids there. This isn't bad enough to call it a systemic problem, but when 2 at the same marina have the same problem, I'd sure point the area out to my surveyor.

Do not ever buy a diesel boat without having both a hull survey and an engine survey done. The engine survey should be done by an authorized dealer of the engine manufacturer so you can get access to any prior recall or warranty work done on the engines.

The 460 is a great boat......you will love it!

 

[Alex D]

However, 460DA's do tend to be a little stern heavy......and that is worse with a hydraulic platform and a hardtop. You can expect those boats to run bow high and leave you blind for a little while as you come up on plane.

I have heard this about the 460, 500 and especially 510 being very stern heavy ... while the 410 seems to be a superbly balanced boat ... at least with gassers. I have a slip neighbor with a 2001 410 that planes easier than my 340 ... well almost, but it is astonishing how that boat gets up and runs level with twin 380hp Horizons ...

 

[aquadancer]

CORRECTION

Info on the boat is starting to dribble in. This is a late 2000 production and the engines are CAT 3208TA 437hp. SR apparently started offering this engine package in late 2000, even though it is not listed as an option until 2001.

Any concerns over this specific engine ?

I am driving up to Long Island to see the boat tomorrow and I'm sure I'll have more questions later in the week.

Thanks in advance

 

[osd9]

Enter Frank W..... :thumbsup:

 

[ImpulseIII]

Dominic,
The 460 at the end of your canal isn't "Diamond Edition" is it??

 

[osd9]

No, but he does come down every so often...his son owns a house in my neighborhood...

The 460DA that is for sale in my canal is "Fast e'nuff".....he just had the hull Imron painted pewter and it looks great, IMHO......

 

[JC3]

AquaDancer, FrankW will chime in soon Iam sure. If i where you and Frank has the time i would ask him to look over your shoulder and guide you thru. Frank was kind enough to help me and i can promise you this, without his help i would have made several mistakes and spent THOUSANDS of dollars that i ended up not spending. I ended up with a great solid boat at a very fair price.
I just surveyed 2 SR DA'S, one a 40 and the one i bought the 450DA. Both had Cats. Pete, Skip, Dominc, Mike and some others can really help you as well. Just keep asking and heed their advice! JC

 

[Alex D]

CORRECTION

Info on the boat is starting to dribble in. This is a late 2000 production and the engines are CAT 3208TA 437hp. SR apparently started offering this engine package in late 2000, even though it is not listed as an option until 2001.

Any concerns over this specific engine ?

I am driving up to Long Island to see the boat tomorrow and I'm sure I'll have more questions later in the week.

Thanks in advance

The 3208 is a very proven V8 diesel engine, People used to call them the "throw away" diesel because I do not believe they have exchangeable cylinder sleeves. I have a slip neighbor with a 1990 420DA with the same engine package. I think they can be *quite* sootie and smoke a bit, especially on start-up. I also believe they are no longer installed since they were such dirty running engines and that causing obvious challenges in marine installations. They are great engines though, even if down on low rpm torque a bit more than the sixes. Max rpm is 2800 on the 3208.

 

[ImpulseIII]

Dominic,
I'm pretty good friends with Al, the owner of Diamond Edition (he's at Dillon's Creek) I asked because he was talking about possibly selling the boat and he was thinking of keeping it at his sons house in Bayville while it was on the market. Guess he decided to keep her. Beautiful Boat BTW..