Big 3 Auto Bailout?

Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 26.2%

  • No

    Votes: 124 73.8%
  • Total voters
    168
Why don't we kill three birds with one stone, er, cure three economic crises with one bill. Along with the gummint subsidized 4.5% refied mortgages, let Uncle Sugar buy a new Chrysler 300M and a new Cadillac Escalade to put into the garage of every new home sold in the next six months. Then give every residential builder and subcontractor a new F150 pickup if he'll take his old one to the crusher.
 
Wish they would hurry up and bail me out and pay down/off/lower my interest rate on my mortgage so I can go buy a bigger boat.
 
. In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress. ~ John Adams

2. If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed. ~ Mark Twain

3. Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself. ~ Mark Twain

4. I conten d that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. ~ Winston Churchill

5. A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. ~ George Bernard Shaw

6. A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. ~ G Gordon Liddy

7. Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. ~ James Bovard, Ci vil Libertarian (1994)

8. Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. ~ Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University

9. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ~ P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

10. Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the exp ense of everybody else. ~ Frederi c Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)

11. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. ~ Ronald Reagan (1986)

12. I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. ~ Will Rogers

13. If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free! ~ P.J. O'Rourke

14. In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. ~ Voltaire (1764)

15. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! ~ Pericles (430 B.C.)

16. No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session. ~ Mark Twain (1866 )

17. Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it. ~ Anonymous

18. The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. ~ Ronald Reagan

19. The inherent vice of ca pitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. Th e inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. ~ Winston Churchill

20. The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. ~ Mark Twain

21. The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

22. There is no distinctly Native American criminal class...save Congress. ~ Mark Twain

23. What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. ~ Edward Langley, Artist (1928 - 1 995)

24. A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. ~
Thomas Jefferson
 
Good post Mike...

I have a basic question... if the congressmen (congress + senate) are asking for CEO's to make $1/year, why can't our congress do the same to themselves? There are not too many people in the government leadership (state, federal) that could not set a nice example and wave their salaries... Most of them are millionaires already...
 
Bloomberg has done this for 8 years and looks like he'll do it for another 4 years. I would like to see the end of politics as a profession myself. Go back to citizens serving their term and returning back into the fold.
 
TurtleTone said:
Bloomberg has done this for 8 years and looks like he'll do it for another 4 years. I would like to see the end of politics as a profession myself. Go back to citizens serving their term and returning back into the fold.
Click to expand...

+ infinity
 
Four Suns said:
Good post Mike...

I have a basic question... if the congressmen (congress + senate) are asking for CEO's to make $1/year, why can't our congress do the same to themselves? There are not too many people in the government leadership (state, federal) that could not set a nice example and wave their salaries... Most of them are millionaires already...
Click to expand...

The President and congress make, what, a few hundred K per year? Isn't that nothing compared to what most CEO's make?

But in principle. . . the $1 per year for these bozo's would be significantly overpaying them.
 
TurtleTone said:
Bloomberg has done this for 8 years and looks like he'll do it for another 4 years. I would like to see the end of politics as a profession myself. Go back to citizens serving their term and returning back into the fold.
Click to expand...

Two politicians seeking to overturn term limits, at least as it applies to them: Michael Bloomberg and Hugo Chavez. They both need to finesse the issue the same way Vladimir Putin did, step aside and have your loyal stooge succeed you while you step into another high post but continue to pull all the important strings....
 
I have an idea. Eliminate all taxes of any kind for a year and make the various government entities figure out how they will reduce operating expenses to cover the shortfall. :wow: Maybe that will wake them up and it will also provide an excellent "stimulus" to the economy as well. :thumbsup:
 
comsnark said:
The President and congress make, what, a few hundred K per year? Isn't that nothing compared to what most CEO's make?

But in principle. . . the $1 per year for these bozo's would be significantly overpaying them.
Click to expand...


I don't think that includes cars, drivers, apts, insurance, retirement, flights, etc... I would bet that the average senator gets more a year just in percs than I earn. I say the first that should take a pay cut is Frank and Pelosi.
 
I am generally opposed to bailouts, but I am not opposed to providing low cost loans to at least two of the automakers. I am not in an auto related industry, but am very much aware of the scope of this industry, particularly in the Midwest. While the industry has been very sloppy in how they run a business, few people anticipated how quick the credit industry collapsed. Primarily because of the credit industry crisis, the auto makers are not able to sell cars at anywhere near the volume they need to. In addition, if foreign automakers receive subsidies from their governments to get them through this, it would not be an even playing field in which our auto companies are competing.

Obviously the "big 3" have made poor PR choices in the way they initially requested the money. However, I'm disgusted that it appears the only question asked of some of financial companies was "how much do you want?" right before handing over the check.
At least the automakers are presenting a plan for their loan assistance....
 
Dave S said:
I have an idea. Eliminate all taxes of any kind for a year and make the various government entities figure out how they will reduce operating expenses to cover the shortfall. :wow: Maybe that will wake them up and it will also provide an excellent "stimulus" to the economy as well. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

We need a third legislative branch. I'm going to call my fantasy branch the Exchequer. The Exchequer would approve all laws and regulations that either tax or spend. It would be made up of legislators selected from the states in proportion to the amount of taxes collected from that state. Voters would cast a number of ballots for their representative proportional to the amount of taxes personally paid by the voter. For example, if New York contributes 5% of total taxes collected by federal treasury, New York would have 5 members in the 100 member Exchequer. If West Virginia contributes less than 1% of the total federal revenue raised, it would have no representation since West Virginian tax payers have no exposure. Also, if Joe in NY pays a total of $15,000 in federal (income, SSI, excise, etc) taxes, he would have 15 votes in the election for the New York delegation, while Pete, who pays only $2,000 would only get two votes to cast. Anyone who pays no tax, or less than the hypothetical $1,000 limit would have no vote for Exchequer since they have no exposure.

In this way, the people who have been screwed by the tax system finally get some say in proportion to how badly they've been screwed by the others. Currently 50% of taxpayers pay little or no federal taxes. So there is little personal cost to them when they vote for idiot politicians who enshrine stupidity in legislation.

Best regards,
Frank
 
"Currently 50% of taxpayers pay little or no federal taxes. "

I had no idea it was that bad. I think it was Ron Paul who proposed a Federal Sales tax in lieu of the IRS Fed Tax. I thought this was a great idea because _everybody_ pays.

I give the gov a real nice new boat every year and it kills me to write those checks. Especially knowing how that money is being throw away.

I like your plan Frank!

Mike
 
fc3 said:
We need a third legislative branch. I'm going to call my fantasy branch the Exchequer. The Exchequer would approve all laws and regulations that either tax or spend. It would be made up of legislators selected from the states in proportion to the amount of taxes collected from that state. Voters would cast a number of ballots for their representative proportional to the amount of taxes personally paid by the voter.

In this way, the people who have been screwed by the tax system finally get some say in proportion to how badly they've been screwed by the others. Currently 50% of taxpayers pay little or no federal taxes. So there is little personal cost to them when they vote for idiot politicians who enshrine stupidity in legislation.

Best regards,
Frank
Click to expand...

Brilliant, Frank. It will take another revolution to get it into action, I'm afraid.
 
Ah. Missed the "fantasy"

I like the concept of flat sales tax. . . .except any flat tax would likely result in

(1) an increase in MY taxes.

(2) over time, federal sales tax AND income tax.
 
I have leased GM vehicles since 1993. Suburbans, tahoes, trailblazers, and Saab 97X. I have never had to return any of these vehicles to the dealers for service. Some were two year, twenty seven months lease and three year leases. Before 1993 I had a 1974 suburban that I traded in for a new 1983 suburban: both had close to 300,000 when I let them retire to dealer. Both had original motors and trans. So may be I have been lucky or just had good vehicles. So I say give them a bridge loan to help the US economy.
 
My very first car was an old VW .. . totally uncool.

Since then, I have had about 3 American cars.

They work fine. I have an 11 year old and 14 year old car - - > and they both have some life in them.

When I have shopped in the past (last purchase was two years ago), it made simply no sense to buy a new US car. Unless you got a $5K rebate. . they were way overpriced. And those rebates aren't around everyday.

Buying used is a different story. If I have time to shop for a used car next time around. . I will go with an American car.
 
What if the major Boat companies went to Washington and asked to also be bailed out. Would anyone even listen. Sea Ray and all the other Boat companies just layed off hundreds maybe even 1000 employees, but they are not too big to fail.
Again, If capitalists do a poor job of keeping there finances in check they should no be able to stay in business. Darwin Rules. A weak car company can not survive,even with all the cash and credit in the world.
 
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