Big 3 Auto Bailout?

Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 26.2%

  • No

    Votes: 124 73.8%
  • Total voters
    168
billandamy said:
Pretty much what I was going to say. I am pretty anti-union for the most part for most professions, they were incredibly important for a long time, but are now a hinderance.
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This is not a union problem. Management always gets the union it deserves and the big 3 management agreed with every contract and signed them all. Walter Ruether's former assistant taught my labor relations class at the University of Iowa in the late 60's. He used to say privately that management's willingness to give in to the UAW during contract negotiations would eventually kill the golden goose. The workers used to buy Walter a brand new Cadillac with all of the options when a new contract was signed. I believe he gave them to a charity because he was reportedly embarrassed to drive what was once regarded as a fancy car. This was not his style. Walter was a better manager than the idiots who represented the shareholders.
 
Unions aside, it's funny how they grill the sh*& out the big three that unions have run into the ground, my industry would have been done years ago had unions been allowed. They didn't grill wall street, hell they gave AIG a pass on throwing a half mil party, and they blast the big three for using corporate jets, like the others they've already given assistance to? How about the push for alternative energy cars they grill them about? Well Uncle Sam why don't you tell us what infrastructure is going to be allowed, or allowed to be in place (hydrogen, others etc)? Why would any of them invest in something the gov't may or may not approve, or regulate into oblivion? I agree they could be run better, but factors outside their own are at fault here. The union layoff bank makes the members get paid 95% of the employees salary if they get laid off? How do you expect the big three to make it through these economic times with this on their back? Gimme a break, work for comparable salaries to other middle class americans and quit your bitchin about how hard watchin robots assemble cars while you watch making $50/hr plus obscene benefits. No wonder the big three union can't compare to import factories even in our own country...
 
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Last night, Leno opening one-liners he was saying that AIG has reported that AIG is NOT giving bonus to their executives this year, instead they're giving 130 of them Cash awards of up to 3 Million each. They said that they are cash awards and not bonuses. We don't want to lose any of their executives to the industry. He said god forgive that we lose any of these business genius's to the industry, imagine what kind of shape AIG would be in without these guys. He said remember, these are cash awards and not Bonus' and we should send them to Jail, and not Prison... :grin::smt038:smt043

I don't agree to any of the bailouts. I have yet to see any of them stepping up and making major changes in the way the do business. Only this is going to change their profitability. I do like that the big 3 exec's agreed to $1 pay for this yr... god knows they've got enough from prior yr profits to live off for the rest of their lives. I did like that the Chrsyler CEO said if Chrysler and GM were to merge, that he would lose his job, and if that's what it would take to keep Chryslers employees working he'd do that. This is the first guy I've heard to do the right thing! I think they should shave all of mgmt down by 10-20% across all the companies! (even mine (my company is one of the larger companies in the US) could use it - last bad qtr, they came thru and trimmed 10% of all of the worker bees... didn't see any of mgmt get trimmed!?) We're expecting to see them do it again this next qtr. Oh, and our CEO is "Required" to fly on private company owned Jets even when he's on his own time! I couldn't believe that when I read the SEC info on that! Even the economists today were saying that the big 3 will be back in about 10-12 months again looking for more money.

-VtSeaRay
 
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No to Bailouts. Formerly Big three was a piss poor business model who catered to union pressures. toyota pays about 43 per hour in wages + benifits and GM about 74. Toyota builds a better product and outsells GM because they make cars that people want. GM has way to many brands and models, which is killing them in design and manufacturing. Toyota, on the other hand has way less so there tool up costs are way lower.

I was impressed by the UAW concessions...to "defer" payments to retirement funds...not to omit or reduce them. Defer probably means "until after congress bails you out". I would bet there is little chane of a UAW strike in the near future.

Agree Unions, in most professions, were a good thing in the distant past. there are exceptions, like the IATSE for one.

Mike
 
Uplate said:
Agree Unions, in most professions, were a good thing in the distant past. there are exceptions, like the IATSE for one.

Mike
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Your union, I'm guessing?
 
fc3 said:
Your union, I'm guessing?
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No, I am not in a union and have been freelance my entire life. I am in the entertainment business and the IATSE (Internation Alliance of Stage and Theatrical Employees) are still the best craftsmen/professionals in our world. the non union companies are still mostly unqualified, do not carry their own tools, little experience, and want to hang out on the loading dock and smoke dope.

I have worked with them all, and except for a few select cities, the IATSE is far above the alternatives. I design a show for the NBA every year at Madison Square Gardens which is exclusively union. They absolutely rock. Local #1.

There are many unions who take business by the throat, they are not one of them (although there are always exceptions). OTOH, they are about the only unions I deal with.

The thing that kills me is hearing about contracts that the Detroit makers sign which allow for 95% of full salary paid to laid off workers and the "rubber rooms" where they pay union members to do nothing. No wonder they are in trouble. Taxpayers did not sign these ridiculous contracts nor should we absorb the cost of management stupidity.


Mike
 
There has been plenty written about not bailing out the big three (or giving them a bridge loan to be more correct) or letting them go thru Chapter 11. Just do your research before you decide on whether you really want either of these things to happen as opposed to extending them this bridge loan.

I don't like the idea of government supplying low cost loans either especially when we are in unchartered waters with an economy the likes of which we have never seen. Because if this doesn't work and ultimately these guys are forced into bankruptcy anyhow, then we (the taxpayers) have to eat the cost. But I don't like the alternatives. Letting them fail or file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy now will hit the global economy like a ton of bricks and will put enormous amounts of people in the unemployment line as well. Getting the economy to rebound from that will really be difficult and it will be years and years before we can come back to some sense of normalcy. The mortgage market will take another huge hit as well as more and more people have to file personal bankruptcy. And then other things spiral out of control pretty quickly at that point. And when fewer tax dollars are collected from businesses and those who are gainfully employed, this will result in depleted operating funds for our government entities potentially causing local, county, and maybe even state governments to go bankrupt as well. Then we are all in trouble because these folks will also be looking to the federal government for help as well which means another bailout (and this time it will be a bailout and not a bridge loan:wow:).

So if they don't get the loans and they do go bankrupt, then everyone who is gainfully employed today, in whatever industry they may work in, better keep on looking over their shoulder to see if they will be the next one in the unemployment line because all bets are off at that point. You may say "it won't happen to me", but if the economy tanks and we sink into a Depression it just might and you may not even see it comming.
 
Some would argue we are already entering into a depression...

How many bank failures have there been?
How much has the stock market crashed?
How fast is unemployment going up?
How about your fixed asset values? (boat, home, dogs)
etc. etc.

And then you get the CNBC expert saying "deflation may become a problem." HELLO?! Deflation is here.
 
Dave S said:
There has been plenty written about not bailing out the big three (or giving them a bridge loan to be more correct) or letting them go thru Chapter 11. Just do your research before you decide on whether you really want either of these things to happen as opposed to extending them this bridge loan.

I don't like the idea of government supplying low cost loans either especially when we are in unchartered waters with an economy the likes of which we have never seen. Because if this doesn't work and ultimately these guys are forced into bankruptcy anyhow, then we (the taxpayers) have to eat the cost. But I don't like the alternatives. Letting them fail or file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy now will hit the global economy like a ton of bricks and will put enormous amounts of people in the unemployment line as well. Getting the economy to rebound from that will really be difficult and it will be years and years before we can come back to some sense of normalcy. The mortgage market will take another huge hit as well as more and more people have to file personal bankruptcy. And then other things spiral out of control pretty quickly at that point. And when fewer tax dollars are collected from businesses and those who are gainfully employed, this will result in depleted operating funds for our government entities potentially causing local, county, and maybe even state governments to go bankrupt as well. Then we are all in trouble because these folks will also be looking to the federal government for help as well which means another bailout (and this time it will be a bailout and not a bridge loan:wow:).

So if they don't get the loans and they do go bankrupt, then everyone who is gainfully employed today, in whatever industry they may work in, better keep on looking over their shoulder to see if they will be the next one in the unemployment line because all bets are off at that point. You may say "it won't happen to me", but if the economy tanks and we sink into a Depression it just might and you may not even see it comming.
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I don't like bailouts in any form but I agree with what you keep trying to say. We're taking severe hits from every angle and I don't think we can allow everything to go to hell at the same time.
 
If we don't bail out Detroit, what will happen to the car loans? Is there going to be another 300 billions write down hitting the banks?
And the CEO of Chrysler can easily afford to forgo his salary after his stunt at HD. Which idiot hired this guy in the first place?
 
Sorry did a quick reply on page 1.
Hell no to bailout support for either big 3 or banking. It's time to grow up and be responsible or to some degree know cash in/cash out.
You screw up you loose (and yes, even the unfortunate ones who fell into the scam shouldn't be bailed out)
 
The banks srewed up, we all lost. Have you looked at your investments lately?
 
Good for you. How come that does not reflect in the current state of our economy?
 
Woody said:
I don't like bailouts in any form but I agree with what you keep trying to say. We're taking severe hits from every angle and I don't think we can allow everything to go to hell at the same time.
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Everything does need to go hell so we'll be awakened once again we can't live beyond our means. This shat was put in our face 4 generations (or six depending on your reproductive schedule) ago and we tend to forget
 
My feeling is this! If we are bailign out the banks, then let them loan the money to the BIG THREE if not, its a simple rule regarding ecomonics....let them claim bankruptsy. I would think that most of Americans concerned would have transfered their stocks to Honda, Toyota or Nissan by now. (Saturn doesn't count) Seriously, its not an easy quesiton but I can't help be distrubed that all the BIG GUNS are getting bailed out....what happened to helping middle Amerricans that are loosing (or have lost) their houses. No one will bail them out if they made the wrong decision of buying too much house and can't maintain the mortgage payments.
 
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