Baltimore

OldSkool said:
So this one is split down the usual party lines. No progress on either side to move to middle. Woodyman did clarify his morons comment but the damage was already done. Scott countered first with other in support after him. RR comes in and WTF was that all about? We even got MLKjr, Charles Darwin, the popcorn king, Rudy, Big Al, and a host of others.

No need for my comment everyone knows my disdain for street thugs and support of the police when warranted.

Glad to be back after a few months away.

BTW pulled all the teak off OldSkool over the weekend and getting ready to refinish it. Got a 17" deep sea fish filet knife on the table for guy in LA. I'll post pictures it's complete.
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You missed how I tied in Curtis Mayfield.
 
Discussion can be healthy.

That's how I view this thread. We all have perspectives, sometimes they are different.

We "this website" are a community. For us to be able to come forward and discuss our perspectives often times helps each other of us understand better the views of everyone.

Keeping this a discussion and not attacks are important.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark
 
As I read this thread I ponder , how many of the rioters went to church last Sunday, went to church as a child with mom and Dad ..... How many of them actually have a mom and dad still married in the home . And to call this drug dealer Mr. Not happening that's giving him respect and I won't do that , am I concerned about how many white cops are killing black men ..... Not as much as I am about Black men killing Black men ....... I live near flint michigan .... And every night there's at least one sometimes two killings a day always a black man and always a pic of a black man with his head tipped back looking tough.... In his mug shot as the prep. If people would publicize the good that the police do, instead of focussing on a couple bad events , can you imagine what the TV would look like .... And what about the black cop that shot and killed the black 12 year old with a toy gun how many heard about that ...... Oh it was in Ohio 6 months ago , it never made the racist media , nope . So how many kids overdosed and died from Freddie's drugs dealing ? Hmmm food for thought .
Let's talk about Sea Rays


Boltman
 
I will not blindly defend the cops... there are some bad apples in every profession but I think cops should be held to a higher standard. What happened to Freddy Gray should not have happened. I hope and trust that if a crime was committed, those responsible for it will be held accountable.

Having said this, what is happening in Baltimore is sad to watch but the response from local politicians is downright infuriating! They essentially authorized, condoned, and rationalized a riot, destruction of property, and attacks on police. How is this not some form of dereliction of public duty???

Mayor "space to destroy" is a total joke! Rep. Cummings and all his excuses for bad behavior are a total joke! No jobs and poor educational system to blame for riots, looting, and property destruction??? What has Cummings accomplished for the people of Baltimore in his nearly 20 yrs in Congress??? Wake up Baltimore! Stop re-electing people who continue to fail the city and maybe your conditions will improve.
 
A guy I used to work with just died last week being chased by the cops. Tom was drunk and crashed his truck. At least he didn't hurt anyone else. Woody is that the cops fault? All I can say is bet he won't do that again! Who cares you do stupid shiot oh well. Next.
Freddy Grey ................. Next. As for the rest ....savages.
 
kevin27 said:
A guy I used to work with just died last week being chased by the cops. Tom was drunk and crashed his truck. At least he didn't hurt anyone else. Woody is that the cops fault? All I can say is bet he won't do that again! Who cares you do stupid shiot oh well. Next.
Freddy Grey ................. Next. As for the rest ....savages.
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Don't throw that stupid sh-t out, you know what my earlier comments meant.
 
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The latest report is that another inmate inside the van witnessed Freddy intentionally slamming himself up against the van walls...with intent to hurt himself. This should be an interesting investigation. Outright tragic on all levels, but all signs, prior and post, are pointing to Freddy being a less than savory character in his community and a habitual offender. And with a large chunk of the authorities and police in Baltimore being black, its not a race thing. These jackass thugs are making choices to engage in criminal behavior, be it drugging, pushing, looting, shooting, vandalism...whatever. 99.99% of the cops will leave you alone if you just obey some simple laws. My advice would be to prioritize and organize your family, set the family dinner table 7 nights a week and fill the seats every night, and for god sakes...Stop Breaking the Law!!
 
Craigalan said:
The latest report is that another inmate inside the van witnessed Freddy intentionally slamming himself up against the van walls...with intent to hurt himself. This should be an interesting investigation. Outright tragic on all levels, but all signs, prior and post, are pointing to Freddy being a less than savory character in his community and a habitual offender. And with a large chunk of the authorities and police in Baltimore being black, its not a race thing. These jackass thugs are making choices to engage in criminal behavior, be it drugging, pushing, looting, shooting, vandalism...whatever. 99.99% of the cops will leave you alone if you just obey some simple laws. My advice would be to prioritize and organize your family, set the family dinner table 7 nights a week and fill the seats every night, and for god sakes...Stop Breaking the Law!!
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http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/04/washington_post_reports_that_freddie_gray_was_trying_to_hurt_himself_in_police_van.html
 
Woody said:
I should clarify my ‘morons with a badge’ comment. I wasn’t calling the entire law enforcement population morons….just the ones that are. We see the results of their actions often enough and it shouldn’t be ignored.

Remember the 80/20 rule? Unfortunately the 20 in law enforcement makes the 80 look bad. Millions and millions are paid out across this county in settlement of justified cases brought against the law enforcement community. Sometimes we don’t like to talk about things…but where there’s smoke there’s fire.

So how about Freddy? Did he really add anything to society or his community?….I doubt it, he was a drug pusher. Will any one miss him?…Some family and friends I suppose. Freddy was not a very important individual in the whole scope of things, while he was living anyway, maybe that‘ll change with his early demise. What is important is that he’s dead after an interaction with LE when he shouldn’t be.
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+1...Very well said, and I agree 100%.
 
Out of all the police killings recently why hasn't anyone pointed out that these thugs were in the middle of committing or were about to commit a crime. Not the cops fault these losers (whatever color they may be) were breaking the law and put themselves in this position. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time! Shoot them all and let god sort it out.
 
Good Morning All,

If I'm being honest, I have to admit my initial read of this thread yesterday indicated a negative sliding slant, in my opinion, which prompted my first post. As I said, the motivation for my input was to hopefully get folks to slow down and think about how their perspectives and opinions were being formed on events in Baltimore, nothing more, nothing less.

Although I really want to be non-attributional, this thread contained the following statements, connotations and inferences when describing actors in Baltimore over the last few days (no quotes on purpose):

-.....throw them in the river,....savages,...water pollution,...animals,....thugs that belong in a cage,....protestors,.....rioters,.....etc.

We even had the suggestion that fire hoses should be turned on them, citing the effect 175-185 psi would have (we've seen that movie before). It was further asked.....what kind of animals would burn down their own neighborhood....and then answered and identified with those....on welfare with no jobs to go to the next morning.

WOW! There's clearly a lot of emotion in those words, and I would venture to say a measure of corresponding dislike/disgust at a minimum, and if we continue to be honest, what clearly sounds like some hate at the other extreme end. Let's just be honest. We all have a right to feel and say what we will, but racializing (and don't tell me these sentiments were not racialized) events to fit a predispostion one might have does not add anything positive to a discussion.

Here are my final thoughts and comments on the matter. I agree, we are a nation of laws. And by the way, those that enforce those laws, myself included, ARE to be held to a higher standard. Law enforcement officers (LEOs) are charged to protect the rights, lives, property of all citizens (not just those we like or can tolerate) and enforce the law in a completely unbiased and by the book method. The citizenry should expect and demand nothing less. However, in fact, this is not the case, it's more of an ideal in reality.

Here's the rub.....when people believe that certain bad or illegal activities and behaviors are somehow more or less egregious when performed or conducted by or against certain people, and excuse or justify the same certain activities and behaviors by others, the system begins to fail. It fails because those feelings and thougths get transposed into the initial reports of "crime", the response by LEOs to those reports, who they're looking for in response to those reports and why, and what they do when they arrive.....and certainly gets played out in the judicial system.

As a current Supervisory Federal Law Enforcement Officer with some twenty years experience working all levels from uniformed patrol through felony criminal investigation to include the internal investigation of misconduct by Police Officers of a major municipal Police Department (I remain non-attributional on purpose), and now in a position where I assess and write operational and administrative policies to be followed in the conduct of criminal investigations under our purview (which is expansive and worldwide), I believe I have a lot of the necessary first hand knowledge and experience (not stories I've been told by friends and family), actual personal experience of having done it all myself, to qualify and validate my statements.

I promise you, most people strive everyday to do the right thing, and do. This is true across all professions and walks of life, and at every level. But please understand, when it comes to allegations and ultimately those proven and sustained charges of police misconduct.....which happen much more than most people know and are aware of .....those that make the allegations do not mostly make them up, nor are they made by people who mostly don't do what they're being told when in contact with police/detectives/agents. Not that false reports aren't made, they are, but I know what I speak of. There are bad cops out there, and those bad cops often go looking for ways to impose their will on those who can really do very little about it....if/when they try, things go very bad. It may not have happened to you or yours, but your lack of experience does not negate another person's reality.

I get that people want to trust and believe that "it can't be as bad as they say, so surely they're making this stuff up", it's easy and comfortable to do. But its only easy for those who don't have contrary experiences. Those that do, live completely different lives. Not having to live that life is preferable, but it's preferable BY ALL.

Bottom Line: Simply put, all are not good, and all are not bad. However, going back to my earlier statements....bad policing in any form is bad for all. It clearly makes the job of good policing even harder than it already is. But when bad policing, to the extent that people are physically harmed or killed unecessarily or illegally by virtue of sheer contact with law enforcement....we have major problems to address and correct. I caution everyone to really think about the impact of your words. Too many feel so free to say and call people just about anything they want, but are then shocked and appalled at the response their words prompt in return. Can't have it both ways. There is a line of common decency that should never be crossed, not in what is supposed to be a civilized society.

Have a great Sea Ray day everyone. I really don't have more to add to this converation. I'm back to thinking about my boat and yours.
 
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I feel like I'm in a room with my parents, and I'm being lectured and they get the last say and that's that, because they are not going to talk about it any more!! but they do get the last say .................. or maybe its just me??

Every one has insight, every one has a feeling about the situation one way or another. I believe it still bears saying that no one knows all of the facts regarding the circumstances under which Fred Gray lost his life.

All parties deserve due process, even the "LEOS" and yes, they should be held to a higher standard, but they still deserve "due process."

Yes Fred Gray did not get his due process, the state, his family members or friends will have to pursue the infringement on his rights IF due process bears out facts that implicate the police.

HOWEVER:

People that burn down a pharmacy, old folks home, public property, cars, their own neighborhood, loot, harm other citzens, harm the police because they are angry at the loss of a life no matter how precious, DO NOT deserve a free pass.

Law breakers should be held to account (yes LEOS too) even if their circumstances or realities are different than that of the so called privileged.

We are all a part of a 21st century cilvilized nation with rules and regulations and laws which cannot and should not be ignored even if your grievance is the most egregious.

YOUR GREVIENCE NO MATTER HOW EGREGIOUS does not give you the right to break the law, even if your grievance is that someone else broke the law and a family member lost his life as a direct consequence. (Just a hypothetical please remember we do not know all of the facts in the case)

Your state or status in life or your reality (even if mine is different and I'm not saying it is by the way) does not give you the right to break the law, destroy property, hurt or harm others.

No one is above the law, Ok Ok OK well maybe, maybe politicians are ............
 
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Does anyone think that the Mother that pimp slapped her son on National TV should be in trouble with the Division of Youth and Family Services?? How come no one is jumping on that band wagon??

I personally think we need more mothers like that but it just struck me (pun intended) as strange that no one is jumping to criminalize her and put her son in protective custody, cause clearly she pimp slapped him and embarrassed him on National TV. Surely he needs/deserves a hug or a trophy for participating and a grade based on curve or a fee based on a sliding scale, maybe free health care??? How about a free pass to throw rocks at the police??


Come on where are the Family Services people???

I am speaking specifically of this mother and her son not all disadvantaged people who's experience I cannot understand or benefit from.

I hope my sarcasm comes across clearly in my typing!!!
 
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sfergson727 said:
So I have to ask, with all of Freddie's transgressions, why was he not in jail already? He obviously was a drug user and a dealer, and people have rotted in prison for far less. With the claim that a person can be arrested just for being black, why was he, a repeat offender of serious crimes, walking around free?

He'd probably still be alive if he were incarcerated, btw....

Let the popcorn flinging commence.
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He is not in jail because the individuals (politicians and lawyers) who fought hard on his behalf to explain and justify why he deserved a second or third or fourth ............ chance because really what did he do??? He wasn't really a bad guy was he? <------ THAT IS INTENTIONAL SARCASM.

Just another version of catch and release, I guess.

Anyway those people that continually put "the Fred Gray's" back on the street believe that he could NEVER find his way to their neighborhood or their kids or their family members to ply his goods. He would NEVER or was NEVER a threat to them and their loved ones and of course they can help the unfortunate individual who is disadvantage by the system.



I wish to clarify I do not think that Fred Gray should die. This is obvious from my other posts, but wish to make that clear! <----- NOT SARCASM
 
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sfergson727 said:
So I have to ask, with all of Freddie's transgressions, why was he not in jail already? He obviously was a drug user and a dealer, and people have rotted in prison for far less. With the claim that a person can be arrested just for being black, why was he, a repeat offender of serious crimes, walking around free?

He'd probably still be alive if he were incarcerated, btw....

Let the popcorn flinging commence.
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Hmmm. It looks like you are going for the "Head Pot Stirrer" title.

I'll bite, Freddie was out of jail because the liberals believe all it takes to rehabilitate someone is to throw money at the problem.

To further stir the pot and with RayRay's attempt at enforcing political correctness aside, if you behave like wild animals and riot, you should expect Johnny Law to smack you down hard. This isn't a race issue, it's a behavior issue.
 
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