Another, "WHo should pay" Post

[MaddyDean]

Hi All

I just splashed yesterday--there were a few delays, weather was a main factor. However;

At the end of last season I had the Marina service both outdrives impeller, zincx, paint, etc. This season I changed the Manifolds and risers. so after changing the manifolds out I started the engines up--they started right up no issues. I go to the swim platform to make certain the hose and rabbit ears are still on and I notice the Port prop spinning on the port drive. I am thinking, how did the engine start up if the gear was engaged but nonetheless, I go and make certain that the engine was in neutral and it was.

So, I proceed to put the port engine in gear and it stalls. Starboard no problems.

So, I talk to a friend who is a boat mechanic and tell him I think I messed up the gear cable and needs the adjustment--can you walk me thru. He tells me, absolutely not, I did not mess up anything and without even telling him that it is the port engine he proceeds to tell me, “This is the port engine right” I said yes, he said, “Counter rotation right” I said yes. So then he said, “when the marina took the port outdrive off the mechanic assistant put the gear forward instead of reverse and proceeded to yank on the outdrive to get it off…they messed up…it is something in the outdrive…probably gear lever.

So, I write the Marina Shop manager stating, “hay, I think the cables may need adjustments since I did the risers however, my friend, who is a marine mechanic in Florida, thinks that your team may have damaged something in the outdrive when your team serviced it last winter—can you please look into it?”

They do, it took them a while but they did.

I get an email from them stating that the linkage was good and it did NOT need an adjustment however, they did have to pull the outdrive and they found that the Shift Level in the drive had been bent. So they straightened it and re-attached the out-drive.

I am thinking, my friend is a genius—that was exactly what he said.

So now I get the bill for the bottom paint and splash. I am reading the line items and I see an item for them looking into the outdrive issue and they charged me an hour time plus gear oil and seals.

I write back stating, I did not agree with the bill please adjust removing the service charge but that I did not mind paying for the new gear oil and seals which I think is more than fair—but I do not mind having fresh gear oil.

This was last Friday and I still have not heard back from them. I have sent two additional emails asking for a resolution but still have not heard back, So, the question is:

Who should pay?

 

[rcknecht]

the marina, but good luck geting them to pay... Its hard to find good marine machanics...

 

[Jim M]

You not say anything (especially in here) until you hear back from them.

 

[fwebster]

With boating and the vendors who service the waterfront, you have to pick your battles. For an hour's labor, this is a battle you may win, but in the long run it may not be worth fighting.

if this were me, I'd go to the service manager and tell him, "Look I know your guys jerked the drive off and bent the lever, but I am choosing not to make an issue out of it. Here is the check for the service you did. Let's pay attention in the future and try not to let trainees or unskilled guys work in my boat." My guess is the service manager will pay you back many times over because you saved him having to answer the "How did you let this happen?" question from his boss.

 

[Kreole Kid]

Well said, Frank!!!

 

[vernh59]

I'm with Frank too. I think that letting them know that the bent fork was probably from them doing the work, since it worked fine when you went ashore, but nobody can be 100% sure, split the bill or you pay for the oil or something like that. I don't think this one is worth going to the edge over.

 

[MaddyDean]

With boating and the vendors who service the waterfront, you have to pick your battles. For an hour's labor, this is a battle you may win, but in the long run it may not be worth fighting.

if this were me, I'd go to the service manager and tell him, "Look I know your guys jerked the drive off and bent the lever, but I am choosing not to make an issue out of it. Here is the check for the service you did. Let's pay attention in the future and try not to let trainees or unskilled guys work in my boat." My guess is the service manager will pay you back many times over because you saved him having to answer the "How did you let this happen?" question from his boss.

That is an interesting take Frank. I like the marina and the people there. From my point of view I like to keep things local, take the outdrive service for example; in the past on my old boat I used another mechanic--good guy, ok prices, etc. But now I am in a local marina and I like to keep business local. As a tangent, I recently bought a new phone, I could have gotten the phone for $50 cheaper by buying it online form AT&T however, as mentioned, I like to keep and patronize local business. So I went to my local AT&T store and paid more for the phone but I got a person to talk to if needed. I go to the local Hardware store before Home Depot and Etc.

This is the same with the outdrives. I priced out, last year, my marina doing the work or bringing to my old guy--the marina was $100 - $150+ more but I chose to go with them as they are closer to me personally with the other services they provide and being in my town and all. I could have easily, as in the past, removed the outdrives and bring it to the old guy but again, I chose to let them do the work. And the service manager knows this as I outright told him what my other guy was pricing.

I also make it a point to use their gas service station and to their on-premise convenience store.

You see where I am going--I am already giving them more work and voluntarily putting more money to them--in fact, I just bought two new batteries from them yesterday no questions asked. I guarantee you I could have found batteries cheaper but as mention, I like to keep things local.

My opinion is they should reciprocate--not because of what I am doing, they probably don't realize that I am doing it--but because it is about customer service!

In my email to them I even left it open for them to take ownership by blaming myself first--as I wrote, I feel that I messed up the cabling and it needed to be adjusted but please look at the outdrive…. If that had been the case, the bill would be paid but it is apparent that this was not the case.

Now, I do appreciate their honesty, they could have said, we did the adjustments. And they did verify what my friend told me, that the shift lever was bent.

With something that obvious, I would have expected them to write, "We have verified that the lever in the outdrive was bent and apologize for the inconvenience" that would be customer service--them not doing that and I still bought the batteries from them.

And I tell you what, if he would have wrote that, I probably would have replied, I would meet him half way. In fact I know I would have payed half just for their honesty.

They already got me by the Two's as I am not allowed to bottom paint--they charge me $350 when I would have been able to do it for $100 plus an hour of my time. So for voluntary type work especially, they need to provide customer service, continue to be honest and they would have even more business.

 

[MaddyDean]

I'm with Frank too. I think that letting them know that the bent fork was probably from them doing the work, since it worked fine when you went ashore, but nobody can be 100% sure, split the bill or you pay for the oil or something like that. I don't think this one is worth going to the edge over.

I agree, I won't go to the edge--but I am surprised they have not gotten back to me with a resolution.

 

[tdschafer]

I kind of agree with all points here. On one hand, an hours labor is not worth the stress and fighting it may require. Where does it end?

On the other hand, I don't necessarily agree with Franks take, totally. They may do as he says but it has been my experience that this is a "What have you done for me lately?" society and this forgiveness will be forgotten by the fall!! Heck, the service manager may be gone by the fall, who knows?

For me personally, I would ask that this charge be taken off of the bill. If I have received no response, as in this case, I would pay for all of the charges EXCEPT the one in question. When the next bill rolls in, if the charge is still there, I would go see the service manager with copies of my e-mails in hand and explain that I thought it was taken care of. If they persist, I would pay the balance at that time..............................and then shop all of my prices in the future making sure to give them as little of my money as is convenient.

 

[MaddyDean]

Just got off the phone--We are meeting half way.

 

[LetsRock]

"This was last Friday and I still have not heard back from them. I have sent two additional emails asking for a resolution but still have not heard back"

You dont need to hear back...just send in your payment less the disputed amount, then see how fast they get back to you.

 

[fwebster]

I guess I should have written the whole story on the "win the battle lose the waterfront war" thing............

The entire issue is about teaching/earning respect and developing a relationship. If you press for every single minor point and ask for firm quotes in advance on every job you want done, you get the reputation of a being penny pinching complainer. On the other hand, if you calmly bring over-charges and incompetent work to the service manager's attention and let them know you are reasonable but won't tolerate BS, it is surprising what happens. I am in a marina that has the reputation of sometimes over-charging. My job description does not include the word "Screw-ee" and after a number of years, the service manager understands that I know which side of a boat is the dry side. As a result, I am never over-charged and when a work order comes in a little high, the service manager always includes an explanation with the bill.......and that explanation sometimes makes me chuckle. In February I decided to rebed my forward port lights. I started about 10AM and quickly found that I needed to rebed all 10, not just the forward 4. There wasn't enough time before nightfall, so I asked the service manager if his glass guy could help me. The bill was what I expected, but there was one final line under "labor" on the work order.........1.5 hours for putting up with the owner's help.

Is all about developing a relationship.............

 

[tdschafer]

I guess I should have written the whole story on the "win the battle lose the waterfront war" thing............

The entire issue is about teaching/earning respect and developing a relationship. If you press for every single minor point and ask for firm quotes in advance on every job you want done, you get the reputation of a being penny pinching complainer. On the other hand, if you calmly bring over-charges and incompetent work to the service manager's attention and let them know you are reasonable but won't tolerate BS, it is surprising what happens. I am in a marina that has the reputation of sometimes over-charging. My job description does not include the word "Screw-ee" and after a number of years, the service manager understands that I know which side of a boat is the dry side. As a result, I am never over-charged and when a work order comes in a little high, the service manager always includes an explanation with the bill.......and that explanation sometimes makes me chuckle. In February I decided to rebed my forward port lights. I started about 10AM and quickly found that I needed to rebed all 10, not just the forward 4. There wasn't enough time before nightfall, so I asked the service manager if his glass guy could help me. The bill was what I expected, but there was one final line under "labor" on the work order.........1.5 hours for putting up with the owner's help.

Is all about developing a relationship.............

Fair enough Frank. Good story BTW.

 

[MonacoMike]

It's all about developing a relationship.............

Never truer words written.

We recently stayed in a major downtown Chicago hotel, the concierge was helpful and made great recommendations for our taste, we became friendly with this person, and tipped $20. The next morning we had a delivery to our room, a $45 wine tray. We decided at the last minute to try to stay an additional night and inquired at the desk, they wanted $275, we passed. I later was asked by a porter I had tipped $10 to when we were leaving and I told him the story, he later approached us and offered to let us use his employee discount to stay another night at a rate of $80 approved by his manager. This is how relationships are founded for the long term. Never let them cheat you but margins are tight now and a relationship is huge. MM

 

[Nehalennia]

..........Is all about developing a relationship.............

I agree 1000%. I'm a service manager in the security industry and even though we strive for excellence, mistakes happen and errors are made, or product is defective, etc. Either way crap needs to be explained or dealt with. I am much more apt to "work with" a customer when there's a good dialogue, understanding and communication. If everything is nitpicked or scrutinized to the 10th degree it creates a relationship that requires extra attention, time and bottom line, cost. If I can take care of a customer I always will, but I also need to be able to "work with" people and in our industry I need to prioritize things. I may have to push off a customer needing a key to a file cabinet to get the door swinging again on an office building down the street. If I get told "No I had an appt from 3-5 for my file cabinet" instead of "yeah this can happen anytime" understanding that their key is not an emergency compared to a bank of elevator's card reader won't let anyone on the 43rd floor, I'm less apt to help you gracefully when it's your turn with the true emergency. It's a tough job being on the service manger's end of the phone and a constant juggle to reorganize, reschedule and prioritize is not fun or easy.

 

[Summer Fun II]

+2 what MM & Frank said. My Dad always told me :smt001.......

You'll get more with sugar than you'll get with vinegar. :thumbsup:

Yeah I know this is cow country talk. :grin:

 

[Mr Salt]

Don't hid behind emails, call the guy on the phone or better yet go see him. The next question is how do you want the guy to treat you in the future. You do not want to win this battle and lose the war. Politely let him know that "he owes you" and I bet you will collect more in the future from him.

 

[MaddyDean]

Don't hid behind emails, call the guy on the phone or better yet go see him. The next question is how do you want the guy to treat you in the future. You do not want to win this battle and lose the war. Politely let him know that "he owes you" and I bet you will collect more in the future from him.

I did, I called him a few post back and I asked what he thought was fair--he said half and I said OK no other questions asked.

 

[MonacoMike]

I did, I called him a few post back and I asked what he thought was fair--he said half and I said OK no other questions asked.

Good for you, glad it is worked out. MM