Another Stereo Upgrade

[DragonAnchor]

Another Stereo Upgrade - 2006 290 DA

First of all, Thanks to all who have posted their advice and their own upgrades. It has given me the confidence/motivation to do my own.

My boat's current configuration is a Clarion CMD4 Head Unit and 6 stock 2-way speakers.

There are 4 speakers topside and 2 below at the head of the v-berth. The 4 and 2 are separated at the head unit by the fader, so I can play the stereo topside or down below, or both.

Below is a diagram of the upgrade I am planning. Most of the pieces are either on order or already on-hand.

Currently I am at a loss on how to hook up the cabin speakers as I have used all the channels off the 4 channel amp. The cockpit speakers will be the ones mostly in use with the cabin ones used at more tolerable levels. Can I connect them directly to the head unit, or will I cause some sort of conflict since I am also using the pre-amp outputs?

I hope to document my progress and share it here. Another install thread cant hurt can it :grin:

I am sure I will need help on stuff I havent thought of yet, but off the top of my head...
I will be needing/asking for advice in how and where to mount the amps.
How much airflow do they need, do I need an aux fan on them to keep them cool enough.
Sub placement advice.
How to safely pull off panels to gain access and finally how to run the power cables through the hull.

Thanks in advance

Clarion MD4
RMS Power Output 17 watts
Peak Output 53 watts
RMS Power Bandwidth 20-20kHz
Preamp Voltage 2 volts
Video Control No
Preamp Outputs 3 pair
Sub Preamp Outputs Yes

Polk Audio db6501 Component Speakers (2pair)
power range: 10-100 watts RMS (300 watts peak power)
frequency response: 35-23,000 Hz
sensitivity: 92 dB
top-mount depth: 1-11/16"

Polk Audio db651 2-way speakers (1 pair)
power range: 6-60 watts RMS (180 watts peak power)
frequency response: 35-22,000 Hz
sensitivity: 92 dB
top-mount depth: 1-11/16"

Kicker 08zx300.1 (sub amp)
150 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms (300 watts x 1 at 2 ohms)
low-pass filter (80 Hz at 24 dB per octave)
25Hz subsonic filter
bass boost (12 dB at 40 Hz)
13-7/16"W x 2-3/16"H x 9-5/8"D

Kicker 08zx350.4 (component speaker amp)
4-channel car amplifier
60 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (90 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms)
175 watts RMS x 2 in bridged mode (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
2-, 3-, or 4-channel output
variable high- and low-pass filters (50-200 Hz, 12 dB per octave)
variable bass boost (0-18 dB at 40 Hz)
13-1/2"W x 2-3/16"H x 9-5/8"D

Kicker SKM10 (Sub)
sealed enclosure with one 10" marine subwoofer
4-ohm impedance
power range: 50-150 watts RMS (300 watts peak power)
frequency response: 30-500 Hz
sensitivity: 86.5 dB
23-15/16"W x 16-1/16"H x 8-5/16"D
top-mount depth: 5-1/4"

 

[teekster]

I am not familiar with the layout of the 290. In my 340, I had a fairly long power run. I added another large fuse on the end of the power lead before the distribution block, just to be safe. Looks good, overall.

You will be glad you chose to DIY.

 

[Groucho]

This won't answer your question...But....I'm in the process of having my speakers upgraded...tomorrow in fact. When the Audio tech looked @ the current stock system, he noticed the radar arch had small cutouts..(probly for the premium system tweeters)...and they were leaking lots of bass into the arch. He is going to fill with dynamat material.
I'm going with MBQuart 2 ways on the topside and the cabin are going to stay stock for now. He doesn't think I will need a sub, but I'll let you know....I'd rather not go to the expense and lose the space for a sub if I don't have to. The stock speakers were pretty much garbage.

Let me know how yours turns out too!

 

[NateRW21]

damn it!!! I hate this thing! I had something wrote up, accidentally clicked a link and when I returned... GONE!

Anyway, I'm going to keep it short now since I'm not happy! With that amp for the sub, you're running twice the advised watts RMS. The MX700.5 amp would fit your application better. Your speakers call for 100w, your sub 150w all at 4ohm. The MX700.5 gives 70wRMSx4 and 210w RMSx1 with 4ohm and 14.4v. You'd still be a bit over spec on the sub channel, but pretty close; much less likely you'd over-power it to the point of damage. 70% of advised RMS would be within the "ideal" range to power those speakers with. This covers all the bases as your two amp set-up, but with only one amp. Should be cheaper and easier to install.

As for your single pair of speakers. They call for 60w RMS at 4ohm; your head unit I'd bet puts out somewhere around 12-17w RMS at 4ohm. Sure, it will run them but I'd be sure to keep the volume down. Grossly under-powering a speaker can do as much damage as grossly over-powering a speaker. The problem is the signal gets distorted as the volume is increased and that distortion damages the speaker. You could run off the head unit, or you could get a two channel amp with 50-70w RMS per channel and run those speakers amplified. Or get a four channel such as the KM350.4 (60wx4 at 4ohm or 175x2 at 4ohm or 60wx2, 175wx1 at 4ohm) and either just leave a channel open for expansion, put in two pair of those speakers, or add a second sub.

Power wire... for one amp, with a run less than 16' or so, 4ga would work... two amps with more than 700w combined or runs longer than 16 or so feet... look for 2ga. Keep in mind that your grounding run is what kills you; totally different ball-game with marine than car audio. Fusing... you don't need a fuse at each end; it's not bad, it's just not needed. The fuse for the power wire is there, not to protect the equipment (they have their own fuses for that), but to protect against shorts and resulting electrical fires. Be sure if the fuse is anywhere near combustibles that you use a marine blade type fuse. Avoid the tube fuses... they work, but the blade type is prefer-ed.

Connections... I assume you want to use your fader to be able to adjust the volume between the locations. If you run your single pair of speakers from the head unit's power, be sure to wire them to the front channels; it is possible to damage the head unit if wired to the rear and the fronts are left unused. Then run your amp from your rear preouts. If you have separately controlled sub preouts, run your sub from that; if not, use the rear preouts as well and hopefully whatever amp you choose has a remote volume control (the 5-channel I advised has a sub channel remote volume control that comes with it; your option to install it or not). IF you decide to amp your whole system, just use your front preouts for one local, rears for the other... should you like the one pair and one sub off a 4-channel amp idea, you'll either have to run it from a sub preout with it's own control on the head unit, or end up stuck with whatever setting you give that channel on the amp itself. If no sub preout and you go this route, just split the front preouts and turn on the low pass filter for the bridged channels you run the sub on. This will keep the dynamics of the location all relative to each other; you just won't be able to easily adjust your bass level.

I don't know your boat, so specifics about layout and placement you'll have to figure out on your own or with someone else's input. As for general amp placement... it needs some ventilation; don't put it in a small compartment, closet, or... obviously, the engine room (heat will kill an amp). Install somewhere that air can get to it and escape. Don't install the amp upside down (face/writing/heat sinks facing down); this defeats the purpose of the heat sinks and allows the electronics to heat-soak. Install right side up or vertically. Follow those rules and you shouldn't need a fan. If you MUST mount it upside-down, there needs to be pretty constant airflow over the amps; in this case, it would be a good idea to install a small 12v cooling fan blowing air over the heat sinks. I don't know for sure, but if you have a nice, small relay (a small 12v cooling fan shouldn't draw more than 2-3amps worst case) connected to your amp turn-on wire might work. I'm not 100% on this and it really is going to depend on the size of the relay (20-30-40amp would require too much power to even activate). But if you have a power antenna wire from your head unit, that will for sure run a relay to power your cooling fan when the stereo is on (provided the antenna lead gets power at all times when the head unit is on, not just when the stereo is on). Oh and another good tip is to put spacers between the amp and the surface it is mounting on. Air flow under the amp is always a good thing. Some 1/2" plastic spacers from lowes hardware section would do the trick (Kind of sounds like I've used these before doesn't it?)

Okay, I think that's about it. I'm not criticizing your plan; it will work as you laid it out. I'm just giving you some ideas on maybe how to expand the system for close to the same price or save a little bit of cash and make your installation a bit easier.

GOOD LUCK! And be sure to let us know what you decide!

 

[NateRW21]

As for the sub, it calls for 1cu ft (inside, minus the cone volume) if in a sealed enclosure. It can be mounted free-air, but if I were you, I'd go sealed. If you're willing to cut holes and fab up a box, you should be able to find somewhere to put it where you won't really miss that 1.2-1.4cu ft. If you're using the kicker enclosure system... well... good luck with that; try as I might, I couldn't find anywhere to put it (of course my boat is much smaller, but the dimensions of that enclosure make it a bit on the long side).

 

[DragonAnchor]

I added the specs of the components in my original post.

I am planning on wiring everything at a 4ohm load. Given the specs of the gear, it "appears" to be a good match. That "appears" thing is part of the reason I am here. With the Admiral and the 8 yr old on board, I will never get the chance to really crank the volume, but when its just the Guys, it should see alot of power. The last thing I want to do is to Say "Hey guys listen to this!" and have smoke roll out of the gear!

There was an "upgraded" stereo option for this boat, but it was not ordered with it. But it does have the cutouts for a component speaker system up top. All 4 speaker location have an additional tweeter cutout not being used. This was part of the reasoning for the component speakers up top, that and Crutchfield has a sale, Buy one pair, get the 2nd for half price.

If you look at the picture below, the Grey/tan insert above the seat pops out, it is held in by what I call hard plastic velcro. It comes off rather easily & thats where one of the speakers reside. The white vynal around and running forward behind the cabin door hides the other speaker on that side. It also comes off, but it is held in by plastic screw type things. This piece is a real pain to remove, it seems to take alot of force & I am reluctant to tug to hard for fear of breaking something. This entire set up repeats itself on the other side of the boat

I have been down in the bilge poking about and found where the wiring runs through the boat up to the power panel, it looks like a 2-3" plastic tube, but this end is sealed with what looks like hot glue & is VERY hard to reach. There is alot of deadspace on the sides of this boat and I will be exploring options there. As a note, the speaker wires take a different route up to the head unit & that will be my first are to investigate.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Our Pioneer head unit has 3 sets of RCA outputs on the back. 1 for front, one for rear and one for sub. I use the sub on for the sub amp and rear one for the for 4 channel outside speaker amp. I bridge the 4 channel amp to 2 channels and then parallel the 4 outside speakers.

The 4 inside/cabin speakers are run directly off the head unit using the front speaker wires. Works great.

 

[NateRW21]

That's pretty much the way I was advising he run it if going with one area unamplified. If you prefer running the 4-ch amp as 4 channels, you can just run two Y-spliters from your RCA Preouts. This will require the gain increased on the amp, but shouldn't be an issue. Or, as you said, you can bridge it to two channels. Either option would work fine.

 

[NateRW21]

btw... I now see the sub amp is well suited to the KM10.

If you wanted to run an amp on that single pair, crutchfield has a couple 2-ch amps for between $60-$90 in your power range. Decent names too.

 

[DragonAnchor]

Thanks Nate!

I havent ordered the front speakers yet as I wanted to verify that they were 6.5" and not smaller. I will check out the other amps when I do order them.

 

[First Born]

Randy,

Don't forget to check with Jim at BOEmarine to see what he can do price wise for you as well.

Wesley

 

[DragonAnchor]

Thanks Wes;

Couple of threads back, I read that certain brands he could do well on, others not so good. I thought the Polk and Kicker brands were the not so good on ones. http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?p=97695#post97695 Since I have not bought the cabin speakers nor an amp for them, I will check out Jim again.

I have gone to Jim for the Ditch Bag and handheld VHF. Next project after this is the Radome for my C70. The stereo upgrade will please the most # of the crew and passengers, so it is first I spoke with him briefly at BiH and will be purchasing the radome from him. I just need to work out where to mount it and still keep the Glomax... thinking I just need to raise the Glomax a bit higher and put the radome in front... but that is a post for a nother time

 

[Groucho]

I added the specs of the components in my original post.

I am planning on wiring everything at a 4ohm load. Given the specs of the gear, it "appears" to be a good match. That "appears" thing is part of the reason I am here. With the Admiral and the 8 yr old on board, I will never get the chance to really crank the volume, but when its just the Guys, it should see alot of power. The last thing I want to do is to Say "Hey guys listen to this!" and have smoke roll out of the gear!

There was an "upgraded" stereo option for this boat, but it was not ordered with it. But it does have the cutouts for a component speaker system up top. All 4 speaker location have an additional tweeter cutout not being used. This was part of the reasoning for the component speakers up top, that and Crutchfield has a sale, Buy one pair, get the 2nd for half price.

If you look at the picture below, the Grey/tan insert above the seat pops out, it is held in by what I call hard plastic velcro. It comes off rather easily & thats where one of the speakers reside. The white vynal around and running forward behind the cabin door hides the other speaker on that side. It also comes off, but it is held in by plastic screw type things. This piece is a real pain to remove, it seems to take alot of force & I am reluctant to tug to hard for fear of breaking something. This entire set up repeats itself on the other side of the boat

I have been down in the bilge poking about and found where the wiring runs through the boat up to the power panel, it looks like a 2-3" plastic tube, but this end is sealed with what looks like hot glue & is VERY hard to reach. There is alot of deadspace on the sides of this boat and I will be exploring options there. As a note, the speaker wires take a different route up to the head unit & that will be my first are to investigate.

Nice writeup! Yep...your dead on with your comments... BTW...They found where the IPOD gets connected..It is in the cabinet next to the control panel...

 

[mrsrobinson]

When I spoke with a Crutchfield tech about our system I asked him for a suggestion on a 2nd amp. He said "go with the folks who just make amps, or just make speakers, or specialize in both rather than a manufacturer who makes a lot of things". He suggested Kicker or MTX.

 

[DragonAnchor]

Nice writeup! Yep...your dead on with your comments... BTW...They found where the IPOD gets connected..It is in the cabinet next to the control panel...

DAMN Thats where its at??? I am running down to the boat at lunch today and will check it out. I was looking at the plug in IPOD interface from Clarion... I am not real thrilled with the functionality i.e. it behaves like a 6 disk changer, allowing only 6 playlists to choose from.

 

[DragonAnchor]

WOOT!!

Ordered speakers and amps monday evening, sitting on my doorstep when I got home tonight!! Now thats FAST shipping & I didnt pay anything for the shipping

Oh and found the IPOD jack, more of an MP3 jack, plug your headphones into it, its a small non-descript jack on the sidewall of the cabinet next to the Power Cabinet

 

[mrsrobinson]

Are you happy with the Kicker 4 channel amp?

 

[DragonAnchor]

Sorry, took a hiatus from the board over the winter....

I got the speakers installed before the winter layup. But not the amps.

The good news is the boat is de-winterized and back in service, so its time to complete this project. I will update this thread with what I get done this weekend.

 

[Hampton]

I'm extremely happy with my Eclipse Amps. I have 3 - two XA-4000's and one XA-1000. They are 4 and 1 ch amps respectively. Very clean, powerful sound with lots of adjustments and pre-outs (not on newer models, though).

 

[DragonAnchor]

Kicker SKM10 (Sub) does NOT fit !! (&*(*&(^**%*%

Spent a good amount of time yesterday trying to find the optimal spot for the enclosed sub

First I thought.. Under the Helmseat. Captian can really feel the base and has 2 sides facing the cabin to put vents in for the sound to escape

The space was big enough, but the opening not quite...

Ok, the portside seating, LOTS of room there and the opening a bit bigger, nice place for venting to the cabin...

But no matter how much I twisted and turned, it would not fit through the opening

Aft seating was the only place left, I wasnt real thrilled about the idea because of the table storage was there along with the emergency access for the engine hatch. But if it fit I could slide it to the portside and still have access...

But NO, it was even less of a fit than the rest.

I did find one spot that would hold the entire enclosure with no sweat and wouldnt take up any existing storage...

Just behind the forward portside speaker, there is a HUGE amount of space. 11 inches deep at the top, 27 inches wide, and down towards the bottom of the usable space 10 inches wide

Only problem is that there is no way to get at that space without cutting a huge hole to get the enclosure in there.

I have seen a few 340DA's with an open air sub in that exact spot. And it is large enough for atleast a 12" sub. So the new plan is to buy a new open air sub, Cut the hole and by reaching through, buld some sort of enclosure in place...