A Florida based 1987 390 Express Restoration

I was looking at your picts. look's to me that the gasket was made for heaver glass, also you could have used a lighter gasket material. Stuff looks to thick and must be very stiff had to be hard as hell to get in, . next time try CRL they have any type of rubber for this type of installation,also lubes,strings,for pulling it in,and windshield sticks for the rubber . If you used a two side "zipper Glaze" instead of a single side zipper it would have been 10 times easer on you.I've been watching your work on your boat and it is the best I've seen . As far as the" glass installer" goes "Ocala" says it all.. If you need anything glass related let me know,be glad to help you out. Again, that rubber looked to me to be to heavy for such small openings and is going to very hard to install,but I think you already know that. I've never knew or heard of Billy Mounts,that doesn't mean that he's not the best . I think he may be one of the best.. I worked in the business from about15 to 65 and my father worked his whole life,and so did my Grandfather,and we all owned our own shops and factorys. I dont know if we were one of the best ,but I do know we were GOOD . Kept me in the chips for over 50 years.. Rip
 
Re: A Florida based 1987 390 Express Restoration - Side Windows

The Trimlok rubber was easy to install. A little soapy water and the correct tools made it a snap. Each window took 15 min to actually install. The problem is all the weird angles and mitering the corners when building the rubber frames. As a mechanical engineer, I chose this rubber SPECIFICALLY for its large size. If you know anything about acrylic, its coefficient of expansion is HUGE compared to the aluminum frame it mounts in. Between 32 and 130 deg F, a 70" long piece will expand almost 3/8" along its length! The large Trimlok rubber has a 5/16" deep slot which allows for this expansion. Smaller rubber would not do at all. Everything I do on this boat is a culmination of my years of experience with boats, cars, engines etc. I think everything through. Working with acrylic on boats is nothing like commercial or residential glass. Obviously the designers at Sea Ray did not understand this either. I am certain every one of their acrylic / butyl rubber side window installs have failed on the 390 EC. No adhesive can take that amount of shear day after day.
 
Why didn't you use 1/4" tempered glass,that's getting close to a perfect set up,and ending the expanding problem.and no more replacement problems..Rip
 
Re: A Florida based 1987 390 Express Restoration - Side Window Leak No More

Also ,go to antique tools on e bay and buy a old fashion angle divider and you can find a perfect angle in 5 sec. I had one that I had for over 30 years and I lent it to some one a couple of years ago. For the life of me I don't remember who..Rip
 
Might have something to with the fact that you cannot bend tempered glass around a compound curve! All the windows have a bend and a twist to them!!!!!! Again you are applying residential/commercial glazing theory to boats!!!
 
"8338990 is the screw cover for the side windows."

Thank you for taking the time to label the part numbers and give a great visual reference using the rule for the rubber mountings you are using for your window assembly. And thanks for the great work you’re doing on you fine boat, speaking for myself here, but I believe we’re all learning a "Boat Load" from you experiences.
Thanks,
Dave
 
  • :smt038

Well I finished the side windows and we had some torrential rains here last week. Not a drop leaked inside. You may notice that I modified the forward window. I just did not like that long pointy window. Too hard to get the rubber gasket in the space and just a real problem area for leaks. So I fabricated a piece of 5052 .090 aluminum and screwed and sealed it in with 3M 4000 UV. I will probably paint it black to match the acrylic. The blue is masking tape so I did not get 4000UV all over. I use masking tape anytime I work with caulking. Makes a MUCH neater job. This was a much more challenging job than I initially figured on - but worth all the extra time and fabrication.

  • :smt038

I also have the interior 95% complete. Woodwork etc. Just bought a Xantrex Trucharge2 on EBay for $200. Seller was not honest in the description and it only partially worked. Good thing I am an electronics wiz. It is now fixed and works like a charm. Nice unit. High tech. Beats the pants off of the old transformer type chargers. I use my old 80's vintage charger to anchor my fountain nozzle in my pond!

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This came in via private mail and I thought it should be shared to all:

My reply to Bob's question below
Bob:

Thanks for the kind words regarding my project. I am a project guy and this is just one of my many projects I have gotten myself into in my life.

If you have water under your water tank then you have a leak somewhere. Likely places are windshield front stbd corner where wires lead in to cabin, side windows (they are leaking - trust me), horn mount, rub rail (source of leaks through the screw holes) and the air conditioner condensate pan. There is no secondary condensate drain and it just drains in to the bilge. Could be leaking galley sink drain or plumbing. How about the shower drain? Mine was leaking big time right in to the bilge port of the stringer. The anchor rope compartment leaks from the capstan and searchlight. Water then rots out the bulkhead and flows through the storage compartment and in to the bilge. It should not be damp in this compartment. Check the drain under the little hatch.

If you have water under the tank you may have water in the foam filled compartment below and that is very bad because your stringers may be rotting. I would cut some access ports and have a look. Fresh water is the absolute worst for rotting wood. You need to remove the tank and figure out what is going on underneath.

If you want ten times more work than replacing the side windows with my system then by all means glass them in. That is a whopper of a project. What are you going to do on the inside? Gonna look pretty weird. Me, I like to see out and not live in a cave. At the very least you have to remove the side windows and frames. The frames were siliconed in and silicone is a terrible sealant. Clean up the frames of all old silicone down to bare metal. Clean the fiberglass of all silicone using scotch brite pads and mineral spirits. Seal them back in with 3M 4000UV. If you can let the openings dry out for several days with fan blowing. (Big Tarp over boat). Fill in any rotted areas with rot stop epoxy that will harden when damp.

When reinstalling the frames make sure all the screws are bedded in 4000UV too. You will probably find some screws with rotted wood below. Not a big deal as the 4000UV is really tenacious stuff and the frames will never leak again.

If you don't want to fool with the new acrylic and rubber gasket system then fill the openings in the frames with 5200 series aluminum, .090" thick. Use a 4-40 flat head SS screw every 12" and lots of 4000UV sealant like I did in the forward window. That way the next guy who gets the boat can put the windows in if he chooses.

If you don't mind I am going to post this on my CSR thread so others can learn.

Al

On 5/27/2012 10:38 AM, bob wrote: Good Morning Al,

My name is Bob Wood and I live in Delaware and boat on the Chesapeake Bay Near Annapolis and Baltimore areas.

I have been watching your restoration on but CSR and your own stroboflash page. I continue to be amazed at the scope of the work you have tackled. I have the same model Sea ray only in the 1989 version. As you know, not much changed over those two years so it's very helpful to me to see "inside" your boat. I've owned mine for three years and have been working on many small projects and I'm finally getting caught up on the deferred maintenance. While I have not faced most of the issues you have, I have had to deal with leaking stanchions, water under the freshwater tank ( still not exactly sure where that's coming from since I've pressure tested my water tank and it's sound ) and various other nagging little issues. However, I'll need to do something in the near future with the windows and windshield frame, etc.

I was wondering if when you considered the side window work did you consider removing them entirely and just glassing in the openings or even perhaps some other form of window? My windows don't leak yet but the seals are in bad shape. I have all the Taylor rubber parts for all the aluminum frames, both glass seals and screw covers and all my glass is in good shape. The previous owner purchased all the seals and I assume just realized the scope of the work and bailed on the project. This year I've moved into a covered slip so leaking isn't a serious problem for now. I may tackle this project next winter but I really was just wondering what your thoughts were on the idea of eliminating the windows entirely.

I am impressed with your eagerness to tackle this project and willingness to share your experiences. I also inherited a boat from my father that I restored and it's one of my most treasured possessions. I hope you have enjoyed the work you've done and get many many years of boating enjoyment from it.

Bob Wood
 
Dr MicroChip said:
This came in via private mail and I thought it should be shared to all:

My reply to Bob's question below
Bob:

Thanks for the kind words regarding my project. I am a project guy and this is just one of my many projects I have gotten myself into in my life.

If you have water under your water tank then you have a leak somewhere. Likely places are windshield front stbd corner where wires lead in to cabin, side windows (they are leaking - trust me), horn mount, rub rail (source of leaks through the screw holes) and the air conditioner condensate pan. There is no secondary condensate drain and it just drains in to the bilge. Could be leaking galley sink drain or plumbing. How about the shower drain? Mine was leaking big time right in to the bilge port of the stringer. The anchor rope compartment leaks from the capstan and searchlight. Water then rots out the bulkhead and flows through the storage compartment and in to the bilge. It should not be damp in this compartment. Check the drain under the little hatch.

If you have water under the tank you may have water in the foam filled compartment below and that is very bad because your stringers may be rotting. I would cut some access ports and have a look. Fresh water is the absolute worst for rotting wood. You need to remove the tank and figure out what is going on underneath.

If you want ten times more work than replacing the side windows with my system then by all means glass them in. That is a whopper of a project. What are you going to do on the inside? Gonna look pretty weird. Me, I like to see out and not live in a cave. At the very least you have to remove the side windows and frames. The frames were siliconed in and silicone is a terrible sealant. Clean up the frames of all old silicone down to bare metal. Clean the fiberglass of all silicone using scotch brite pads and mineral spirits. Seal them back in with 3M 4000UV. If you can let the openings dry out for several days with fan blowing. (Big Tarp over boat). Fill in any rotted areas with rot stop epoxy that will harden when damp.

When reinstalling the frames make sure all the screws are bedded in 4000UV too. You will probably find some screws with rotted wood below. Not a big deal as the 4000UV is really tenacious stuff and the frames will never leak again.

If you don't want to fool with the new acrylic and rubber gasket system then fill the openings in the frames with 5200 series aluminum, .090" thick. Use a 4-40 flat head SS screw every 12" and lots of 4000UV sealant like I did in the forward window. That way the next guy who gets the boat can put the windows in if he chooses.

If you don't mind I am going to post this on my CSR thread so others can learn.

Al

On 5/27/2012 10:38 AM, bob wrote: Good Morning Al,

My name is Bob Wood and I live in Delaware and boat on the Chesapeake Bay Near Annapolis and Baltimore areas.

I have been watching your restoration on but CSR and your own stroboflash page. I continue to be amazed at the scope of the work you have tackled. I have the same model Sea ray only in the 1989 version. As you know, not much changed over those two years so it's very helpful to me to see "inside" your boat. I've owned mine for three years and have been working on many small projects and I'm finally getting caught up on the deferred maintenance. While I have not faced most of the issues you have, I have had to deal with leaking stanchions, water under the freshwater tank ( still not exactly sure where that's coming from since I've pressure tested my water tank and it's sound ) and various other nagging little issues. However, I'll need to do something in the near future with the windows and windshield frame, etc.

I was wondering if when you considered the side window work did you consider removing them entirely and just glassing in the openings or even perhaps some other form of window? My windows don't leak yet but the seals are in bad shape. I have all the Taylor rubber parts for all the aluminum frames, both glass seals and screw covers and all my glass is in good shape. The previous owner purchased all the seals and I assume just realized the scope of the work and bailed on the project. This year I've moved into a covered slip so leaking isn't a serious problem for now. I may tackle this project next winter but I really was just wondering what your thoughts were on the idea of eliminating the windows entirely.

I am impressed with your eagerness to tackle this project and willingness to share your experiences. I also inherited a boat from my father that I restored and it's one of my most treasured possessions. I hope you have enjoyed the work you've done and get many many years of boating enjoyment from it.

Bob Wood
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:
 
Re: A Florida based 1987 390 Express Restoration-Update on the Xantrex TrueCharge2

I got the Xantrex Truecharge2 working. Left it on a small 35AH battery overnight. In the morning it was DEAD. The Xantrex not the battery. Looks like Xantrex is made in China or of Chinese parts. Poorly made with no attempt to water/salt proof the circuit boards. Plug in board connectors are glued in with hot melt glue that will loosen over 125 degrees. After the 2 year warranty from Xantrext it is a throw away. DON'T BUY a TRUECHARGE. It would be fine mounted in your living room but not in my boat. I have not decided on a three stage switch mode digital charger but it won't be Xantrex. Probably Newmar, Guest or Charles.
 
Great solution on the side windows, Al.... I wish I started my restoration after you :grin:
 
Were do I get the screw covers from? 8338990 taylor Made, I believe is the part number.
 
I've been using these ProMariner 20 chargers on two of my boats. I use Odessey AGM 2150 200ah batteries (2 on each boat) and these chargers bring them back from nearly door nail dead in a couple hours. The charger runs very hot but the entire board is potted in epoxy so it stands to reason (no air cooling). I'm very impressed with the case and potting :grin: I wish my ECU box was that well sealed, it looks like it would work under water. I blew one of these chargers switching batteries by accidentally striking the leads to the charger together. Apparently some big caps inside shorted enough current to destroy the charger. The new ones have fuses on both pos and neg leads to prevent this.

http://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-amp-ProSport-Battery-Charger/dp/B001BSRLQ6

-BL
 
BLmicro said:
I've been using these ProMariner 20 chargers on two of my boats. I use Odessey AGM 2150 200ah batteries (2 on each boat) and these chargers bring them back from nearly door nail dead in a couple hours. The charger runs very hot but the entire board is potted in epoxy so it stands to reason (no air cooling). I'm very impressed with the case and potting :grin: I wish my ECU box was that well sealed, it looks like it would work under water. I blew one of these chargers switching batteries by accidentally striking the leads to the charger together. Apparently some big caps inside shorted enough current to destroy the charger. The new ones have fuses on both pos and neg leads to prevent this.

http://www.amazon.com/ProMariner-amp-ProSport-Battery-Charger/dp/B001BSRLQ6

-BL
Click to expand...

Thanks Bruce. Coming from you gives the recommendation great credibility!
 
Re: A Florida based 1987 390 Express Restoration - NEW Deck removal method

NEW Deck removal method: I wish I had thought of this!

GO HERE

Correct me if I am wrong but is this a Sea Ray 35' Express Cruiser? It sure beats the heck out of unscrewing all those pesky screws!

Diesel Rocks!
 
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