480 DB Owners Club

[steve4566]

Looking for parts for an 03 480DB

I need two parts for the boat and wondering if anyone has replaced them yet.

One is the cable/control head for the swim platform. The rubber jacketing on the cable has broken down over the years and is starting to come off in places. Before it becomes a problem, I would like to replace it.

The second is the drain assembly from the sink in the master head. The black threaded pipe which goes up into the sink has cracked and needs to be replaced. I have a feeling if I walk into a Home Depot, the size will not be like a standard sink drain size.... but I could be wrong.

Any help is much appreciated.

Vince

I replaced my swim platform wired controller with General Hydraulic Solutions' KT-ELQHRC 1002 hard-wire remote retrofit kit. They'll tell you how to wire the new one as it is a bit different than the old one. General Hydraulic Solutions Swim Platform Lift phone: (727) 571-1065

Take your existing sink drain and tailpiece to a plumbing supply store. Better inventory and customer service there.

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

Need Help With QSM-11
I have an issue where my starboard engine (QSM-11) is not spooling up past 1300 rpm under load. I have yet to try this in idle, so I will go over to the boat tomorrow and try this without a load. I had a bad turbo switch (sensor?) on that motor which was replaced by my factory trained & rated mechanic and that did not fix the issue.

The engine has approximately 700 hours on it and I just had the aftercoolers serviced. The problem existed prior to this service. Over the past two months, I would have trouble with auto-sync, the starboard lagging and taking 5-7 seconds to catch up (once on plane, all OK). Towards the end, it just wouldn't power up past 1300. Owned the boat for 1 year, received very little service records, none pertaining to turbo work. Checked all three fuel filters, and only the first of the two pair of Racors were dirty so they were changed out. I also changed out the fuel filter at the front of the engine.

Some questions I have.

• At what RPM do the turbos kick in?
• What is the normal lifespan, generally speaking of a turbo assembly on a QSM-11?
  (What are the service intervals?)
• Does running my boat at 1000 rpm for 4 hours hurt the engine in any way?
  (I need to run my boat to St. Pete for 4 days for the new years holiday)

Any help is greatly appreciated. I know many have went the facebook route. I don't do facebook so I may post on Hull Truth or if no answers, ultimately post on facebook

Thanks,
Vince

 

[ttmott]

Need Help With QSM-11
I have an issue where my starboard engine (QSM-11) is not spooling up past 1300 rpm under load. I have yet to try this in idle, so I will go over to the boat tomorrow and try this without a load. I had a bad turbo switch (sensor?) on that motor which was replaced by my factory trained & rated mechanic and that did not fix the issue.

The engine has approximately 700 hours on it and I just had the aftercoolers serviced. The problem existed prior to this service. Over the past two months, I would have trouble with auto-sync, the starboard lagging and taking 5-7 seconds to catch up (once on plane, all OK). Towards the end, it just wouldn't power up past 1300. Owned the boat for 1 year, received very little service records, none pertaining to turbo work. Checked all three fuel filters, and only the first of the two pair of Racors were dirty so they were changed out. I also changed out the fuel filter at the front of the engine.

Some questions I have.

• At what RPM do the turbos kick in?
• What is the normal lifespan, generally speaking of a turbo assembly on a QSM-11?
  (What are the service intervals?)
• Does running my boat at 1000 rpm for 4 hours hurt the engine in any way?
  (I need to run my boat to St. Pete for 4 days for the new years holiday)

Any help is greatly appreciated. I know many have went the facebook route. I don't do facebook so I may post on Hull Truth or if no answers, ultimately post on facebook

Thanks,
Vince

The turbos do not operate based upon RPM - it is load (more specifically fuel load) that spins them up.
You should be able to easily achieve 3000 hours minimum on a turbocharger.
Modern electronic controlled engines don't care what RPM they operate at; however, the maximum load needs to be put on them so all of the components get exercised once and a while.

What engine monitor system is installed? Dieselview?
Are you getting any faults displayed?
There is a manifold pressure sender that is threaded into the intake manifold - if that sender has failed the engine will not fuel based upon manifold pressure and it would never achieve desired load or RPM.
But, regardless, the issue could be a plethora of things going on.... Idle verification switch stuck, fuel system plugged, overtemp alarm, fuel governor issue, etc, etc...

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

The turbos do not operate based upon RPM - it is load (more specifically fuel load) that spins them up.
You should be able to easily achieve 3000 hours minimum on a turbocharger.
Modern electronic controlled engines don't care what RPM they operate at; however, the maximum load needs to be put on them so all of the components get exercised once and a while.

What engine monitor system is installed? Dieselview?
Are you getting any faults displayed?
There is a manifold pressure sender that is threaded into the intake manifold - if that sender has failed the engine will not fuel based upon manifold pressure and it would never achieve desired load or RPM.
But, regardless, the issue could be a plethora of things going on.... Idle verification switch stuck, fuel system plugged, overtemp alarm, fuel governor issue, etc, etc...

Wow, that is a lot of help! Thank you very much.

First off, me just trying to spool up the engine in neutral past 1300 probably won't be a good test, so you saved me a lot of time there, TY. I have a 3rd party (Teleflex?) Cummins Engine Display set for monitors. I can post a pic that I had from a while ago from a random alarm I get that may or may not be related to the issue. The alarm used to come while we were on plane, but as you will see in the picture, it is @950 revs which was a first time. I have had this alarm way before I had any RPM issues just as a point of reference and they never coincided with the RPM issue.

I do not get any faults displayed when I try to spool up the engine under load.

So you are thinking that the blades and associated turbo hardware might be in good shape @700 hours by your comment of 3000 hours? The boat was in fresh water for over 500 hours. I did clean out my twin Racor filters on the bulkhead, the first in line had a fair amount of sediment in it, the second was clean. I also change the fuel filter at the front of the engine as well and it was more or less clean. We ran the boat afterwards and no change.

One strange issue I had many months ago was that I could not get the engine to go past what I recall was 1100/1200 revs or so. I called my mechanic and he asked, did I have the key turned all the way? I did not. Could it be that I have a faulty key switch? I was thinking of swapping them and seeing if the problem swaps sides, unless you don't think that is a good idea.

I truly value your time that you put into this message and will take the information forward with my troubleshooting. You are a Gem on this site and its sad to see folks go to facebook. I guess I am getting old and resist change.

Best regards,
Vince Caruso

 

[ttmott]

If the engine is running then it's not an issue with the keyswitch.
A simple check of the turbocharger is to remove the air filter and spin the turbo compressor wheel with your finger - it should spin effortlessly. Also look at the housing inducer where the compressor blades are closest to see if the blades are touching the housing or if any of the blades are chipped or damaged. The turbine (hot) side is harder to get to but if you see damage on the compressor side then on to the turbine side and most likely a turbo rebuild is in order. Regardless, in neutral the engine should rev to redline (called high idle) without function of the turbocharger - under load is another story however. High idle is controlled by three things the engine's ECM, the fuel injection pump, or C-Cruise (C-Cruise is part of the ECM function).
If the engine is smooth and not hunting at idle and not rough running at whatever maximum RPM you can get then I'd assume there is no air getting into the fuel system. Does it start easily?
Inside the fuel injection pump there is a mechanical RPM limiter which is spinning weights held by springs; as the weights are forced out against the springs by centrifugal force a spool valve is moved cutting fuel - very rare but if a spring was broken it would cut fuel to the injectors at much lower RPM. You could move the pump from the other engine over and test that out easily.
Then onto the air system - is the air filter clean?
Then on the throttle stick subassemblies - each has a micro switch and a potentiometer - the micro switch is for idle verification and potentiometer is for throttle position (read as 22% in your picture). Port and starboard assemblies are identical and each have only two electrical connectors. You could move the problem engine electrical connectors to the other throttle assembly and test to see if the switch is a problem.

 

[ttmott]

One last item is the C-Cruise - if for some reason the C-Cruise is activated on that engine it will limit the RPM to whatever the C-Cruise is set. Usually, however, the C-Cruise function occurs for both engines simultaneously unless there are issues with wiring.

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

If the engine is running then it's not an issue with the keyswitch.
A simple check of the turbocharger is to remove the air filter and spin the turbo compressor wheel with your finger - it should spin effortlessly. Also look at the housing inducer where the compressor blades are closest to see if the blades are touching the housing or if any of the blades are chipped or damaged. The turbine (hot) side is harder to get to but if you see damage on the compressor side then on to the turbine side and most likely a turbo rebuild is in order. Regardless, in neutral the engine should rev to redline (called high idle) without function of the turbocharger - under load is another story however. High idle is controlled by three things the engine's ECM, the fuel injection pump, or C-Cruise (C-Cruise is part of the ECM function).
If the engine is smooth and not hunting at idle and not rough running at whatever maximum RPM you can get then I'd assume there is no air getting into the fuel system. Does it start easily?
Inside the fuel injection pump there is a mechanical RPM limiter which is spinning weights held by springs; as the weights are forced out against the springs by centrifugal force a spool valve is moved cutting fuel - very rare but if a spring was broken it would cut fuel to the injectors at much lower RPM. You could move the pump from the other engine over and test that out easily.
Then onto the air system - is the air filter clean?
Then on the throttle stick subassemblies - each has a micro switch and a potentiometer - the micro switch is for idle verification and potentiometer is for throttle position (read as 22% in your picture). Port and starboard assemblies are identical and each have only two electrical connectors. You could move the problem engine electrical connectors to the other throttle assembly and test to see if the switch is a problem.

A quick follow up to your earlier question about auto-sync: I did run the engines without the engine sync feature and spooling up the engines separately made no difference sorry to say. I was just trying to illustrate that the SB engine would lag behind when powering up. Even if I pushed the throttle to full on the SB engine, it still lagged.

On the keyswitch, it did make a difference when the keyswitch was not fully turned all the way. It allowed the engine to start, but not rev past a lower RPM range. Very strange, but my mechanic said he had heard of this before and said it was a long-shot, but seem to fix my problem. Or just resetting the key fixed something else possibly.

I can pull the air filter today and take a look-see how the blades turn and dive deeper for closer inspection. I have an extended mirror I can shine a light on for inspection. Wish I had one of those USB bore-scope lights that I couple place down in there.

The engine did not run rough at high idle which leads me to believe it was/is not a fuel problem, but that is only a 50/50 chance I suppose. This engine take about a second longer than the port to start and seems to take a little more battery power evident in lights dimming and electronics beeping on rare occasions.

Would my mechanic have looked at the filter when he was doing the aftercooler service? Is that standard procedure for a well trained mechanic? I can easily look and swap if necessary for diag purposes. Great idea. In regards to the potentiometer, would that stop it from revving in neutral (for a test) or just under load (meaning opening up more fuel or governing RPMS)?

Once again, TY for your time as it is valued so much. All helpful to me so much, and hopefully one day to others. Long live Club Sea Ray and folks like yourself!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you and your families.
Vince Caruso

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

One last item is the C-Cruise - if for some reason the C-Cruise is activated on that engine it will limit the RPM to whatever the C-Cruise is set. Usually, however, the C-Cruise function occurs for both engines simultaneously unless there are issues with wiring.

Good point. I usually check those switches before warming up the engines. That is not to say that the switch is shorted in a position that the logic has it switched on in a particular mode that would cause something like this.

I suppose one thing I could try is to use the + and - rpm switch to see if that will get it to go past 1300 instead of using the sticks. I have tried troubleshooting with and without engine sync with no success. I have to remind myself just how computerized these engines are from time to time.

Thanks for offering a different point of view.

Vince

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

Took the air filter assembly off yesterday to inspect the turbo blades from the outside. All blades from the outside appeared to be smooth, no cracks and the shaft spun freely spinning a couple seconds after a good push. Some carbon buildup and a little bit of oil.

I spoke to a guy in W. Palm, Turbo Dave @ DMS who was very kind to me not being a client of his. He said looking at the picture I sent him and the info I shared with him, his gut feel was the turbo was not the issue. He is in the biz of selling rebuilt turbos and associated hardware so if there was a chance it was faulty, he would have been glad to sell me one. But earned a lot of respect helping me out... much thanks to David. I will attach the picture of the outside of the turbo.

Thanks again,
Vince

 

[ttmott]

Took the air filter assembly off yesterday to inspect the turbo blades from the outside. All blades from the outside appeared to be smooth, no cracks and the shaft spun freely spinning a couple seconds after a good push. Some carbon buildup and a little bit of oil.

I spoke to a guy in W. Palm, Turbo Dave @ DMS who was very kind to me not being a client of his. He said looking at the picture I sent him and the info I shared with him, his gut feel was the turbo was not the issue. He is in the biz of selling rebuilt turbos and associated hardware so if there was a chance it was faulty, he would have been glad to sell me one. But earned a lot of respect helping me out... much thanks to David. I will attach the picture of the outside of the turbo.

Thanks again,
Vince

He has rebuilt several of my turbochargers - recommend.
Your's looks pretty nominal. The oil / coke buildup is from the engine's crankcase vent. You might want to take a look at the crankcase filter/oil separator and get it all cleaned up. Also look closely at the boot between the turbo and aftercooler - in this picture. If it has torn, ruptured, or come loose you'll lose boost and RPM/power.

 

[douglee25]

Have you checked the waste gate? Is it working? Is it sealing?

 

[ttmott]

Have you checked the waste gate? Is it working? Is it sealing?

Waste gate?? Not on the QSM11...

 

[douglee25]

Waste gate?? Not on the QSM11...

How does a turbo regulate boost without a waste gate?

Edit - some of the other qsm applications have internal waste gates. I assumed they did as well on marine....maybe not.

 

[ttmott]

How does a turbo regulate boost without a waste gate?

Edit - some of the other qsm applications have internal waste gates. I assumed they did as well on marine....maybe not.

There is no need to regulate boost on the QSM11 engine. QSM is marine. The M11 and ISM engines (same basic engine as the QSM) for non-marine applications may. First the turbocharger is sized for the engine and second the ECM fuels the engine for power and power setting which intrinsically controls manifold pressure.

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

One last item is the C-Cruise - if for some reason the C-Cruise is activated on that engine it will limit the RPM to whatever the C-Cruise is set. Usually, however, the C-Cruise function occurs for both engines simultaneously unless there are issues with wiring.

Good call there, I did check that early on.

I can now share an update to those who took time to help me out to work on this issue. My mechanic found the source. He said the bolts holding the assembly that mounts the turbo assembly to the intake manifold (?) were loose. He said he could hear a whistling sound there. He tightened them up and the engine performed exactly as the other one did.

I was relived that I did not have to replace a turbo assembly. I am still trying to get a better understanding of exactly where/which bolts were loose. I wish he would have taken a picture for my future reference. He is thorough in the work he does, but for some reason, he did not go into more detail. Maybe it will have more information on the invoice. He did tell me he had to make a special tool to tighten the bolts as I guess access to them was limited.

Engines ran great running 2.5 hours down to St. Pete and 4.5 coming back in the fog. Amazing how many boaters we came across without radar including jet-skis. Most of our ride up the Gulf, we had 50' vis. I picked up a target headed right for us moving fast, turns at the last min before hitting our bow . Some goofball on a jetskii. Regardless, I am happy that is behind me now and I did not have to $hell out money for turbo work.

Thanks again for everyone's input and time. It's what makes this place great.

Vince

 

[cod]

Good call there, I did check that early on.

I can now share an update to those who took time to help me out to work on this issue. My mechanic found the source. He said the bolts holding the assembly that mounts the turbo assembly to the intake manifold (?) were loose. He said he could hear a whistling sound there. He tightened them up and the engine performed exactly as the other one did.

I was relived that I did not have to replace a turbo assembly. I am still trying to get a better understanding of exactly where/which bolts were loose. I wish he would have taken a picture for my future reference. He is thorough in the work he does, but for some reason, he did not go into more detail. Maybe it will have more information on the invoice. He did tell me he had to make a special tool to tighten the bolts as I guess access to them was limited.

Engines ran great running 2.5 hours down to St. Pete and 4.5 coming back in the fog. Amazing how many boaters we came across without radar including jet-skis. Most of our ride up the Gulf, we had 50' vis. I picked up a target headed right for us moving fast, turns at the last min before hitting our bow . Some goofball on a jetskii. Regardless, I am happy that is behind me now and I did not have to $hell out money for turbo work.

Thanks again for everyone's input and time. It's what makes this place great.

Vince

Below shows a picture of the 4 studs that mount the turbo to the “Exhaust” manifold. If I remember correctly, I could only get the torque wrench on 2 of them upon reassembly. The other 2 were difficult and needed to be tightened with a wrench.
There are also 3 other bolts on the “intake” side of the turbo at the end of the round hose (partially shown in the upper right) which mount a crossover tube to the aftercooler. Those 3 bolts are also very difficult to get to.

 

[cod]

Good call there, I did check that early on.

I can now share an update to those who took time to help me out to work on this issue. My mechanic found the source. He said the bolts holding the assembly that mounts the turbo assembly to the intake manifold (?) were loose. He said he could hear a whistling sound there. He tightened them up and the engine performed exactly as the other one did.

I was relived that I did not have to replace a turbo assembly. I am still trying to get a better understanding of exactly where/which bolts were loose. I wish he would have taken a picture for my future reference. He is thorough in the work he does, but for some reason, he did not go into more detail. Maybe it will have more information on the invoice. He did tell me he had to make a special tool to tighten the bolts as I guess access to them was limited.

Engines ran great running 2.5 hours down to St. Pete and 4.5 coming back in the fog. Amazing how many boaters we came across without radar including jet-skis. Most of our ride up the Gulf, we had 50' vis. I picked up a target headed right for us moving fast, turns at the last min before hitting our bow . Some goofball on a jetskii. Regardless, I am happy that is behind me now and I did not have to $hell out money for turbo work.

Thanks again for everyone's input and time. It's what makes this place great.

Vince

Below is a picture of the aftercooler which shows the 3 bolt holes for mounting the intake tube. Not easy to get to when the aftercooler is mounted on the engine

 

[MXXS]

Hello fellow Sea Ray owners, 2004 Sedan Bridge 480

I'm having problems with my Throttle Control. I'm stuck in Neutral, red light on throttle control, and I've already tried the "Turn everything off, reset" option with no luck.

I had a tech figure out on the Port throttle control has fault number 23 in the Rexroth Mecman controller. We need the manual to identify what this code means.

anyone know where to find such a manual or where to look. I've already gone to Rexroth and was now told to go to Emerson but no one is answer there.. See images below on parts I'm working on...

Any suggestions?

Imagine has controller Rexroth Mecman part number as 323-699-452-0

 

[steve4566]

Has anyone added underwater lights without drilling underwater transom penetrations? If so, how did you do it? Thanks!

 

[LattitudeAdjustment]

Has anyone added underwater lights without drilling underwater transom penetrations? If so, how did you do it? Thanks!

Are you referring to while the boat is out of the water? How would you get power to the lights? Are you planning on drilling into the transom well above the water line?

V