420DB – Bridge A/C and Heat Installation

You could always have a fabricator spin one out - custom. But those guys are hard to find.........

Dale
 
LOL...that's great, Dale. I just didn't want to bug you with small stuff like that.

It's not like the SS adapter for WiFi antenna you did for me, which turned out very nice.:thumbsup:
 
Thanks Doug. This definitely looks much better, I'm just thinking that it's kind of setup the other way around as to what I have. I have 4" hose and 3" vent. This adapter looks like has a small lip for 4" (looks like it's meant to go on the 4" vent) and longer part 3" for the 3" hose. Perhaps I can make it work anyway. I think I'll have to use SS hose clamps and crew them down to make sure the 4" hose has a secured grip on the small lip

I just got this from Joe, looks like it should work just fine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111019898494

Thanks a lot for your help guys.
 
Thanks for asking, Doug. I had to shift my focus on more important items to get her ready for splashing. I would never think that the bottom job would take me so long, but since I've committed I have to keep going. Doing the whole deal of sanding, primer coat, and 3 coats of micron extra. I can't do anything else until I'm done with this.

I installed the thru-hull fitting for water discharge. Water pump and manifold are next on the list followed by the main vent and finally the port side (passenger) vent. I originally thought of getting her splashed first and then finish the projects, but I may have to juggle between the projects and go with the flow. BTW, I'm also waiting for the props to comeback from the propscan shop.
 
It's been a while since the project was completed I just didn't have chance to take all the pix and post the update. So, here's the quick summary and some pix of installed components:

Main vent
View attachment 30437

Port side vent (companion seat)
View attachment 30438

Port side vent #2
View attachment 30439

Those that have been following the thread might remember that I was puzzled with the vents. I can tell you that I'm glad that I took time drilling holes and making the permanent installation only after performing few tests. The main vent was no brainer as it is what it is and I don't have many choices there. The port vent #2 is the only 4" type they make, so I didn't want to go any smaller. The puzzle was mostly on the port vent #1. I was thinking originally replicate the same install John has (see below), but couple of things were bugging me with this approach in my application:
1. I wasn't comfortable taking the space on the port side dash.
2. I don't like the look of these 4" vents and this location makes the vent very noticeable.
3. I wasn't sure that 4" vent between the main 6" and the port vent #2 (4") was the right move. So, I've tested the air flow before making the final decision.

This was the original Idea that I change to installing in-dash 2" black vent by E120 MFD.
View attachment 30440

Testing the system with vents being loosely attached was very smart move, b/c I was able to see that when I attach 4" vent in the middle the port side vent #2 gets very low air pressure that's being used by main vent and port side vent #1. When I switched the port side #1 to small only 2" vent it allowed a lot more air going to the port side vent #2, which was very important as this was the main air delivery vent for the u-shape seating area on the port side of the bridge.

Here's the crappy thermostat that Ocean Breeze supplies with the system. As you can see it doesn't even show the 3rd digit. The temp is 110 degrees. It also doesn't allow me to control the fan speed (I'll review the manual, but the fan button has only on/off/auto options). So for now it's blowing only one speed, which I think is max.
AC_thermostat.jpg

Here's an interesting observation regarding the discharge. As you can see in the pic I routed bridge A/C discharge next to the salon A/C discharge and there's a huge difference in the force. The one that shoots out much further is the new line from the bridge. I'm not sure what is exact cause of such difference, but two things come to mind. 1-the older lines have some build up, but I thought the discharge looked strong enough. 2-the bridge line thru-hull is slightly different on the inside.
water_discharge.jpg

I forgot to take latest pix of the pump and the manifold installation, but I'll upload them later.

Finally the performance side of the system.
I still didn't have a chance to do intensive tests, but I'll share result of the two occasions.

One day it was 85-90* outside and the bridge had all panels closed, which raised the temp level to over 110*. I didn't open any panels to speed up the ventilation and just turned on the A/C. I wanted to experiment how long it would take for the temp to drop from 110* and by how much. About 3-3.5hrs later the temp dropped to 78*. I wasn't thrilled with the timing, but having expectation set from other folks I was hoping to get better results than 20-25* drop and I think my system delivers better results (at least that was my observation on that particular day).

Now a real scenario of being out with the crew for the weekend out on the hook in a local cove.
Another heat wave came through and we had 90-95* days. As you can imagine the bridge is simply like a sauna on days like that with temps creeping up to 115-120* when all panels closed up. These are the days when we would not be able to utilize the bridge to have breakfast and/or lunch due to the uncomfortable heat. So, that's when cockpit would be our primary spot for having a meal and chill. This time I get up in the late morning and knowing that my crew is getting ready for breakfast I open the two panels we always use and crank up the bridge A/C. With panels open the wind (even though it's warm wind) it helps to knock off the extreme temps from 115-120* to around 95-98*. This happens withing 20-30min. I closed the panels and allowed the A/C do the rest. Within about 45min to an hour the temps are now at about 88* (that's on the thermostat that sits high on the arch by the stbd side speaker with sun baking it). The real feel on the bridge is comfortable enough to have the breakfast.

I was hoping to have the A/C performing better, but I've also noticed few things. When the whole gang is moving up and down before getting settled it makes a huge difference compare to when the hatch is shut for a while. The affect of the A/C by the captain chair is very nice, but while the sun was hitting the area around the table seating the A/C could have done better job there. The minute we get a single cloud blocking the sun for a short time it's very noticeable as the "sauna" cools much more.

Another test of real time outing.
During the hot weekend it was very windy, but we still didn't want to miss the opportunity to go out. We started off with A/C off and the two side panels open (one stbd and one port side). While cruising on the river heading East the land was blocking good part of SW 20+kts wind, but when we got to the open bay with white caps it was blowing and sending some spray on the bridge panels. Admiral was getting uncomfortable so I closed all panels and cranked up the A/C. Now that turned out to a very comfortable cruising. This scenario was one of my primary reasons for the project. There's nothing like cruising in a climate controlled bridge. I will never forget the time when I was on a 6hrs ocean run with nasty 20-25kts SW winds ans seas 5-6' with very short frequency. I had to close all the panels to keep the bridge dry as tons of water was splashing it and at times blocking my view for about 30sec to a minute. I was in my bating suit sweating in that sauna while the sun was baking the bridge with perfectly clear skies. I couldn't run a portable fan as it was jumping like ball around the bridge and had to be secured flat on the floor. Lesson learned!!!

Thus, preliminary I'm very happy having climate controlled bridge as it makes it truly night and day difference. Based on preliminary couple of tests the performance of the system is good, but I want to test it more in the middle of hot summer days. I understand that I can't expect to have the same results as we see on larger sister-ships with 220VAC dual units up on the bridge, but I'll be making necessary adjustments to achieve the best performance from my little 22K BTU puppy.
 
Wait, you finished already? I thought there was going to be a vote on where to drill the holes...
 
You think I rushed it? :lol: ..oh well, phase 1 is over. There are always more holes to drill. If the unit wasn't so big and the plenums OB supplies were reasonable size I would have installed at least one more vent.
 
That's how rumors start. I thought I missed something.
Four Suns said:
I'm selling my boat?

My system, installed by Sea Ray and which can keep the bridge to a nice 75 degrees regardless of how hot it is outside, is a split system. The single compressor (big and noisy) is down in the lazarette area (under the cockpit floor) and it drives two (2) evaporators/air handlers up on the bridge. One is under the helm and another is up under the bar sink. I think the solid white hardtop probably helps a lot... I'm sure Alex has scoped out Lady Taz's AC though... Same as mine.
Click to expand...
 
JV,

I'm not sure I follow your post other than you're trying to imply that I should have done a split system. As was discussed in the beginning of the thread I followed pretty much what SR does as an option for 420/44DBs and I just mad some modification to their approach (larger unit, more vents, larger pump, more controlled raw water supply). Other than that becomes more complex and might not be worth the hassle. The biggest issue is the power management due to only 2x30amps at 110VAC. If this was 240VAC equipped vessel like 480DB and alike, then I would have much better options.
 
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Alex F said:
You think I rushed it? :lol: ..oh well, phase 1 is over. There are always more holes to drill. If the unit wasn't so big and the plenums OB supplies were reasonable size I would have installed at least one more vent.
Click to expand...

I'm bringing a drill to Atlantic City.
 
Looks good Alex. Your results sound similar to what others have mentioned with factory installations.

Doug
 
I know this is an old thread but wanted to get your feedback on this install Alex now that it’s been several seasons. Read through the thread which sort of went sideways but curious as to what your experience has been. Any issues with the choice in pumps or AC unit?Now are you managing the power loads? Don’t recall how you planned to do this but I imagine you are using the panel that covers the master stateroom so that you can still run the salon ac unit? I’m curious about a similar setup but more for heating rather than cooling. Wondering if I should look more at the diesel heaters instead?
 
Irie308 said:
I know this is an old thread but wanted to get your feedback on this install Alex now that it’s been several seasons. Read through the thread which sort of went sideways but curious as to what your experience has been. Any issues with the choice in pumps or AC unit?Now are you managing the power loads? Don’t recall how you planned to do this but I imagine you are using the panel that covers the master stateroom so that you can still run the salon ac unit? I’m curious about a similar setup but more for heating rather than cooling. Wondering if I should look more at the diesel heaters instead?
Click to expand...

Hey Dean,

Yes, by now we can say that the "test drive" is over and it either works or doesn't. Several years went by too quick and here's my feedback.

In short, if I didn't do this install and of there was no option to make my bridge climate controlled, I'd be in a different boat a while back. So, there's no question that installing AC/Heating unit made a huge difference in my application and the way we use the boat.

The pump - I'm sure I posted the details, which I don't have from the top of my head. It's a monster MARCH pump, which does a fantastic job servicing all 3 units, via manifold with shutoff valves. I'm very pleased with that.

I used the right side (line 2) of the salon control panel, there's a Cockpit Air Conditioner breaker. I'd say it's most practical placeholder, from power management point of view. The reason is that the salon AC and the pump are on the other line (line 1). This allows me to run both salon and bridge ACs. In additiona, if I really need to (say kids are still asleep on a hot summer day), I can run all 3 ACs by turning off the HWH. I'll be getting close to max on the line 2, but it's still within the 30amp threshold. This was ROI on my strategy on getting 22,000BTU (14amp draw) unit vs. 24,000 (which calls for around 17amps). I'm going from the memory here, but I think I'm close. Double check the specs before buying anything.

Power management in general, is not any different when you need to run the stove and microwave. You just need to watch the load and turn off what you don't need. In my installation, juggling the HWH usually does the trick.

The way we use the boat, AC is more important than the heat, but we definitely have used heat quite often. Note that OB units use electrical elements, not reversed cycle (like most AC units). My unit can take 2 elements. I ordered only one, for the sake of conserving the juice and be within 14amp. I'd say that 90% of the time it's fine, but of course I've been in situations when extra heat source was necessary. For those cases I have a simple solution, a portable marine electrical heater, which works very well. It's quite and spreads warm air at the floor level. I like it a lot. It saved the day on several occasions.

I have no experience with diesel heaters, so I can't provide recommendations on what would work better for you. One thing I know for sure is that installation of built in AC unit is not easy. It requires quite a good capital and lots of time invested.

I hope that helps.
 
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Alex F said:
Hey Dean,

Yes, by now we can say that the "test drive" is over and it either works or doesn't. Several years went by too quick and here's my feedback.

In short, if I didn't do this install and of there was no option to make my bridge climate controlled, I'd be in a different boat a while back. So, there's no question that installing AC/Heating unit made a huge difference in my application and the way we use the boat.

The pump - I'm sure I posted the details, which I don't have from the top of my head. It's a monster MARCH pump, which does a fantastic job servicing all 3 units, via manifold with shutoff valves. I'm very pleased with that.

I used the right side (line 2) of the salon control panel, there's a Cockpit Air Conditioner breaker. I'd say it's most practical placeholder, from power management point of view. The reason is that the salon AC and the pump are on the other line (line 1). This allows me to run both salon and bridge ACs. In additiona, if I really need to (say kids are still asleep on a hot summer day), I can run all 3 ACs by turning off the HWH. I'll be getting close to max on the line 2, but it's still within the 30amp threshold. This was ROI on my strategy on getting 22,000BTU (14amp draw) unit vs. 24,000 (which calls for around 17amps). I'm going from the memory here, but I think I'm close. Double check the specs before buying anything.

Power management in general, is not any different when you need to run the stove and microwave. You just need to watch the load and turn off what you don't need. In my installation, juggling the HWH usually does the trick.

The way we use the boat, AC is more important than the heat, but we definitely have used heat quite often. Note that OB units use electrical elements, not reversed cycle (like most AC units). My unit can take 2 elements. I ordered only one, for the sake of conserving the juice and be within 17amp. I'd say that 90% of the time it's fine, but of course I've been in situations when extra heat source was necessary. For those cases I have a simple solution, a portable marine electrical heater, which works very well. It's quite and spreads warm air at the floor level. I like it a lot. It saved the day on several occasions.

I have no experience with diesel heaters, so I can't provide recommendations on what would work better for you. One thing I know for sure is that installation of built in AC unit is not easy. It requires quite a good capital and lots of time invested.

I hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Thanks Alex, just the info I was looking for. I'm early in my research but we go late in the season and early in the spring so use of the bridge for relaxing would be nice. As soon as the sun sets the family doesn't want to have anything to do with the bridge due to the temperature drop. We've gotten by the last two season's without much need for air on the bridge but that's not to say it wouldn't be a welcomed addition. Will do some more digging as to the units that are on the markets now to see what fits the bill. Will drop you a message if i have any other questions.
 
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