420DB – Bridge A/C and Heat Installation

The way the weather turned I think the project will be on hold for some time until it gets a little warmer. I don't like working in the 36* days (that was the temp in the salon the last time I went to work on the boat) and don't think that applying sealant will work well in such cold temp. I think I'll just use Jan/Feb to get the rest of the parts (including all other projects) together, then roll up my sleeves and get to work as soon as we get some warmer weather.

:smt009Guess the last thing your thinking about is A /C with temps like that on the boat? :smt009
 
....:smt009Guess the last thing your thinking about is A /C with temps like that on the boat? :smt009

Joe, the first thing on my mind is, I wish I needed my bridge A/C right now. :grin:
 
You just have to love this. It's been over a month since I ordered the wedge (angled vent) and MM still don't have it. At least it's a re-assurance that I made the right call to start the project last fall knowing about potential delays.

Even though we have freezing temp now here, but on a sunny days it's not too bad under the shrinkwrap up on the bridge. Man, I just want to keep this project moving, but can't do much without this vent. :smt009
 
I'll stay positive, Doug. It's only the end of January. :smt001
 
Two months passed by and finally some good news...and some bad.

I'll start of with the vent:

After waiting for almost two months I finally got the missing part (the wedge). This is what it looks like:

AC_Grill_2.jpg

AC_Grill_5.jpg

Here's the caveat. The top part (the grill), which is made to go on top of the wedge doesn't fit at all. So, picture yourself paying just about $250 for each parts and after spending $500 and waiting for almost two months you're getting this:

AC_Grill_1.jpg

AC_Grill_3.jpg

AC_Grill_4.jpg

Obviously I'm frustrated, but cutting the wedge to fit the grill is not a big deal for me. However, I'll have to accept the fact that the grill will be slightly overlapping the wedge. I really don't think that ordering a new one and waiting another 2 months will guaranty me better results.

Here's the more positive news, the A/C pump manifold. For those who doesn't remember what is this about here's the pic of the manifold I finally got from OB.

AC_pump_with_manifold_2.jpg

Frank was nice enough to jump in and alert me that this gizmo will most likely break the plastic thread on the A/C pump and I'll have a huge problem. Thanks again, Frank.

At this point I got few tips here on making a remote manifold assembly and just run a hose from the pump to the manifold. This is where our MasterFab came to the rescue. Dale was nice enough to offer his help and I didn't want to pass this opportunity. So, after discussing the best approach and doing a quick brainstorming here's what my new and beautiful A/C pump manifold looks like:

AC_Manifold_0.jpg

AC_Manifold_2.jpg

AC_Manifold_1.jpg

As you can see in the last pic, the manifold has pencil zinc. During our discussion Dale suggested that the best way to protect the manifold was to add the zinc. I thought it was a great idea.

BTW, don't mind the plastic barbs, those are coming off and I have the highest quality brass barbs to go on instead.

Also, the reason why we added the extension for the first valve was due to the fact that one of my existing A/C hoses is too short and we wanted to make the job easier and make sure that it'll reach to the manifold. As I labeled in one of the pictures, the other extension I put on there just to show what the whole set looks like, but most likely I won't use it and will just run the hose up to the barb that will go on the the "T".

So, now I can't wait for the temps to clime up another 10 degrees so I can get back to my project.
 
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Good solutions right there.

Why is that last leg bent like that (I'm sure you knew that was coming)?

Doug
 
....Why is that last leg bent like that (I'm sure you knew that was coming)?

I didn't think it was that much noticeable. :lol:

I think that the tech at OB used to be a sniper (hopefully retired...LOL). He's the one (not Dale) who takes the credit for such "precise" welding of the fitting on the manifold. Honestly, I think this is not a big deal at all and when I place the barb on the T and attach the hose this imperfection won't be noticeable.
 
Alex, it looks like the brass nipple isn't screwed in, that's what I thought. It looks like its sitting there just for the pic.
That guy Dale is something else? He does nice work. Soon you'll be installing all the components!!!
are you using brass? Or bronze? Fittings, the reason I ask is when I installed my Groco flush fittings I was told to use Bronze nipples. That brass wouldn't last in salt water. Is that true??
 
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Wow. What a thread. How did I miss this? Must have been that whole "divorce" thing.

Anyway, good luck Alex! I'm sad to predict that you will likely be disappointed with the ability to cool your bridge with a 16k BTU unit. I ultimately came to realize that air conditioning a flybridge with a soft top is like trying to air condition an outdoor deck. I can say that in my case 18K was good to take the edge off as long as you could get it blowing in your face (or on your privates!). It was great at night though, and allowed us to use the bridge as a third stateroom in a pinch, so I"m still glad I did it.

That said, I do really like your manifold & pump solution, I had come up with a similar set up. And I love the wedge grilles. I never quite solved that one, but that's not really my problem anymore.

I will look forward to hearing how this turns out.

Tim (still not a "technical contributor", but that's OK!)
 
Alex, it looks like the brass nipple isn't screwed in, that's what I thought. It looks like its sitting there just for the pic.
That guy Dale is something else? He does nice work. Soon you'll be installing all the components!!!
are you using brass? Or bronze? Fittings, the reason I ask is when I installed my Groco flush fittings I was told to use Bronze nipples. That brass wouldn't last in salt water. Is that true??

Joe, the nipple was screwed in but not 100% tightened. So, it's clear that the end fitting was welded not perfectly straight.

We couldn't find bronze burbs 3/4" thread with 5/8" barb, but Dale was able to get highest grade brass. I'd love to install bronze barbs, but I just can't find them for now.

Wow. What a thread. How did I miss this? Must have been that whole "divorce" thing.

Anyway, good luck Alex! I'm sad to predict that you will likely be disappointed with the ability to cool your bridge with a 16k BTU unit. I ultimately came to realize that air conditioning a flybridge with a soft top is like trying to air condition an outdoor deck. I can say that in my case 18K was good to take the edge off as long as you could get it blowing in your face (or on your privates!). It was great at night though, and allowed us to use the bridge as a third stateroom in a pinch, so I"m still glad I did it.

That said, I do really like your manifold & pump solution, I had come up with a similar set up. And I love the wedge grilles. I never quite solved that one, but that's not really my problem anymore.

I will look forward to hearing how this turns out.

Tim (still not a "technical contributor", but that's OK!)

Thanks Tim.

I guess you skipped thru the pages and might have missed my post where one of the differences I was trying to make is go with the most powerful unit I could use, which is 22K BTU. I'm also trying to accomplish the affect of moving as much air as possible by installing 3 vents (originally planned for 5).

I can't wait to jump back in to building this thing. Is the spring here yet?
 
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Whoever did the silver soldering on Alex's manifold did not get the inlet fitting straight, hence the "askew" nipple. I don't like it either (anything out of square just rubs me the wrong way - it's a sickness, I know). But, as Alex mentioned, it will have no bearing on the functionality of the manifold, and isn't worth tampering with at this point. I made the plastic mount for the manifold, so it can be remotely mounted in a secure fashion. Here are a couple pics of it under construction:

PDR_2880.jpgPDR_2882.jpgPDR_2889.jpg

The caps can be removed to dismount the manifold, while leaving the bracket mounted to a bulkhead. The pencil zinc will protect the manifold from corrosion, since it will be located too far from the transom zinc for the bonding system to be effective at corrosion protection.

The middle picture shows the manifold when I disassembled it, and is a good lesson concerning teflon tape. Always try to apply it a thread or two back form the end of the nipple, or it can wind up in the flow path.

Dale
 
Thanks Tim.

I guess you skipped thru the pages and might have missed my post where one of the differences I was trying to make is go with the most powerful unit I could use, which is 22K BTU. I'm also trying to accomplish the affect of moving as much air as possible by installing 3 vents (originally planned for 5).

I can't wait to jump back in to building this thing. Is the spring here yet?
Guilty as charged...
I will read all 31 pages at some point... I promise!
 
Whoever did the silver soldering on Alex's manifold did not get the inlet fitting straight, hence the "askew" nipple. I don't like it either (anything out of square just rubs me the wrong way - it's a sickness, I know). But, as Alex mentioned, it will have no bearing on the functionality of the manifold, and isn't worth tampering with at this point. I made the plastic mount for the manifold, so it can be remotely mounted in a secure fashion. Here are a couple pics of it under construction:

View attachment 29189View attachment 29190View attachment 29191


The caps can be removed to dismount the manifold, while leaving the bracket mounted to a bulkhead. The pencil zinc will protect the manifold from corrosion, since it will be located too far from the transom zinc for the bonding system to be effective at corrosion protection.

The middle picture shows the manifold when I disassembled it, and is a good lesson concerning teflon tape. Always try to apply it a thread or two back form the end of the nipple, or it can wind up in the flow path.

Dale

Dale-is that your home shop? What a great milling machine!
 
Don't you just love the guys who sit out here and offer suggestions after you are done................?

Don't be mad, but here are a couple of thoughts. My concern about your design all along has been the flow from a single pump......if you will change the inlet connection from the leg on the T to the location where the zinc anode is, you avoid inducing the line loss of a 90 degree direction change in the flow. I also think you will have to bond the brass manifold to the boats bonding system for the zinc to do any good and I didn't see one. It would be easy to solder a lug on the manifold to accept a bonding wire.
 
Carter - yes, that is my home shop milling machine.

Frank - Yes, I do love guys that do that! (I'm one of them...). But, I only made the mounting bracket, not the manifold. Alex could easily place the pencil zinc on the "bottom" of the tee, and have the water flow directly into the manifold, as you suggest, and reduce the inlet flow loss. However, he will have to chime in and tell us if he has room for that - I don't know if he does.

As to the bonding system, for the boats transom anode to be effective, any protected metal has to fulfill these two requirements (among others):

1 - The protected metal must be electrically connected to the transom anode (or other underwater anode, wherever located). This is the job of the bonding system. And yes, Alex could add a lug to create a bonding point attachment.

2 - The protected metal, and the anode, must be located in the same body of water. This manifold (separated as it is by a considerable length of hose, the pump, and another length of hose from the body of water that the transom anode occupies) does not fulfill that requirement. So, the protection offered by the transom anode will be minimal, at best. On the other hand, adding it has no downside, so it certainly wouldn't hurt. This is the reason I provided Alex with a pencil zinc. Also, it cannot be seen in these pics, but I slightly shortened and angled the tip of the pencil zinc, so it would not intrude into the water flow path, and restrict flow.

Dale
 
Does anyone know where I can get 4" to 3" adapter? My duct under the helm is 4" and I'm thinking to install 3" vent instead of 4" one.
 
Thanks Doug. The one in the link is metal, you don't think it'll rust in the marine environment? I was thinking plastic or PVC would be a better fit for the job.
 

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