420/44 DB Owners Club

[ttmott]

I've used a portable charger when the boat is on the hard and there is no shore power around. Worked well.

ttmott, I have travelled with other boats with 240V/50A inlets that have successfully used an adapter to plug into a 30A shore power pedestal at a marina, so I was surprised Flix2's adapter didn't work. Are there different isolation transformers that would support this? One boat I am thinking of, if I remember correctly, was a 2000 or 2001 Sea Ray 460 Sundancer.

Can the same transformer windings not work regardless if they are wired L1-L2 or L-N? This is at the limit of my electrical engineering knowledge!

Unfortunately everything on the boat operates from the secondary windings of the isolation transformer. There is no "bypass" so to speak around the transformer consequently the boat must have the transformer operating and this is where on the primary windings the 240 volt is required.
This is called a 1 to 1 transformer where there are the same amount of windings on the secondary (output) side as on the primary (Input). The difference is on the secondary side there is a center tap which serves as a derived neutral / ground. So from the center tap (neutral) to either of the secondary (output) legs L1 or L2 you will get the 120 volt power and across the secondary L1 and L2 you get 240 volts. As an isolation transformer is considered a power source the center tap is tied to the boat's grounding/bonding system. There is no and can't be any wiring between the boat and shore power other than the Inputs L1, L2 and transformer internal ground. The primary reason for the isolation transformer is to prevent any direct copper path between the boat's systems and the marina which eliminates any chance of galvanic corrosion and helps prevent shore power surges, sags, and spikes running through the boat. If you have one of these transformers you definitely want to keep it.

 

[ttmott]

Unfortunately everything on the boat operates from the secondary windings of the isolation transformer. There is no "bypass" so to speak around the transformer consequently the boat must have the transformer operating and this is where on the primary windings the 240 volt is required.
This is called a 1 to 1 transformer where there are the same amount of windings on the secondary (output) side as on the primary (Input). The difference is on the secondary side there is a center tap which serves as a derived neutral / ground. So from the center tap (neutral) to either of the secondary (output) legs L1 or L2 you will get the 120 volt power and across the secondary L1 and L2 you get 240 volts. As an isolation transformer is considered a power generator the center tap is tied to the boat's grounding/bonding system. There is no and can't be any wiring between the boat and shore power other than the Inputs L1, L2 and transformer internal ground. The primary reason for the isolation transformer is to prevent any direct copper path between the boat's systems and the marina which eliminates any chance of galvanic corrosion and helps prevent shore power surges, sags, and spikes running through the boat. If you have one of these transformers you definitely want to keep it.

To add - should you apply 120 volts across the transformer primary windings instead of the 240 you will consequently get 60 volts on the secondary between the center tap neutral and either L1 or L2 and 120 volts across L1 and L2. Nothing on the boat will operate. In fact most likely any of the inductive loads (air conditioners and refers) could be damaged or will throw error codes.

 

[bajturner]

I installed a new generator last week, the generator output is 120 volt with a 70 amp single pole breaker. Are you saying shore power is 240 vac while the gen is 120 vac ?

Assuming you have 2 x 30A shore power inlets, then no. My understanding is you have essentially two separate 120V 30A circuits. The generator feeds them both.

 

[bajturner]

To add - should you apply 120 volts across the transformer primary windings instead of the 240 you will consequently get 60 volts on the secondary between the center tap neutral and either L1 or L2 and 120 volts across L1 and L2. Nothing on the boat will operate. In fact most likely any of the inductive loads (air conditioners and refers) could be damaged or will throw error codes.

I was just about to ask if what you get is 60V on each side of the center tap! I guess we are straying off topic, but thank you.

Still wondering how I have seen these adapters work...maybe I am remembering incorrectly.

 

[ttmott]

I was just about to ask if what you get is 60V on each side of the center tap! I guess we are straying off topic, but thank you.

Still wondering how I have seen these adapters work...maybe I am remembering incorrectly.

I have seen marina adapters which have two 30 amp 120 volt plugs that adapt to the boat's 50 amp 240 volt shorepower cable. The caution here is the marina must have two 30 amp receptacles that are out of phase and thus provide 240 volt to the boat. If the marina's receptacles are not out of phase then the net voltage to the transformer/boat is 0 volts and nothing will work.

 

[techmitch]

Unfortunately everything on the boat operates from the secondary windings of the isolation transformer. There is no "bypass" so to speak around the transformer consequently the boat must have the transformer operating and this is where on the primary windings the 240 volt is required.
This is called a 1 to 1 transformer where there are the same amount of windings on the secondary (output) side as on the primary (Input). The difference is on the secondary side there is a center tap which serves as a derived neutral / ground. So from the center tap (neutral) to either of the secondary (output) legs L1 or L2 you will get the 120 volt power and across the secondary L1 and L2 you get 240 volts. As an isolation transformer is considered a power generator the center tap is tied to the boat's grounding/bonding system. There is no and can't be any wiring between the boat and shore power other than the Inputs L1, L2 and transformer internal ground. The primary reason for the isolation transformer is to prevent any direct copper path between the boat's systems and the marina which eliminates any chance of galvanic corrosion and helps prevent shore power surges, sags, and spikes running through the boat. If you have one of these transformers you definitely want to keep it.

Thanks "Rocket Man", when I read the front of the isolating transformer that was posted, I figured as much. I also new that you would chime in and set us all straight!

 

[LG111]

Reread this and I think I got it. Clip the break line on the dinks's bow ring and drive it on to the platform. This sets the dink in the chosen spot. Thank you!

Clip the break line to the swimstep D ring and run under the dingy to the dingy stern D ring.

Say the dingy bow is pointing starboard. Use the starboard Dring on the platform. If you have D rings in each corner use the forward D ring near transom. Your starboard lower cleat works too. Run that to the dingy stern port D ring.
Easiest to pull the dink on the swimstep stern first. Break line already clipped to Platform D ring. Continue pulling dink back as it rides over the first chalk. At the Port chalk, stop and clip the line to the dink. Now pull another few inches until the line stops the dink where you want it. Now crank the dink stern staps down snug. Cross them. Break line is now tight! Fasten bow down.

Hope that's more clear.
Cheers.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

I installed a new generator last week, the generator output is 120 volt with a 70 amp single pole breaker. Are you saying shore power is 240 vac while the gen is 120 vac ?

Mark, If you have a single 50 amp shore power cord it would likely need a 240 shore power but you have the two 30 amp 125 v shore power set up most likely.

 

[Flix2]

Thank you everybody for chiming in. I now understand what the isolation transformer is for and why it would not accept a single 30 amp. My best bet is to update my dock power ASAP.

Unfortunately everything on the boat operates from the secondary windings of the isolation transformer. There is no "bypass" so to speak around the transformer consequently the boat must have the transformer operating and this is where on the primary windings the 240 volt is required.
This is called a 1 to 1 transformer where there are the same amount of windings on the secondary (output) side as on the primary (Input). The difference is on the secondary side there is a center tap which serves as a derived neutral / ground. So from the center tap (neutral) to either of the secondary (output) legs L1 or L2 you will get the 120 volt power and across the secondary L1 and L2 you get 240 volts. As an isolation transformer is considered a power source the center tap is tied to the boat's grounding/bonding system. There is no and can't be any wiring between the boat and shore power other than the Inputs L1, L2 and transformer internal ground. The primary reason for the isolation transformer is to prevent any direct copper path between the boat's systems and the marina which eliminates any chance of galvanic corrosion and helps prevent shore power surges, sags, and spikes running through the boat. If you have one of these transformers you definitely want to keep it.

I am in awe! Thank you for the explanation. So glad I asked before making some major mistakes.

 

[Flix2]

Clip the break line to the swimstep D ring and run under the dingy to the dingy stern D ring.

Say the dingy bow is pointing starboard. Use the starboard Dring on the platform. If you have D rings in each corner use the forward D ring near transom. Your starboard lower cleat works too. Run that to the dingy stern port D ring.
Easiest to pull the dink on the swimstep stern first. Break line already clipped to Platform D ring. Continue pulling dink back as it rides over the first chalk. At the Port chalk, stop and clip the line to the dink. Now pull another few inches until the line stops the dink where you want it. Now crank the dink stern staps down snug. Cross them. Break line is now tight! Fasten bow down.

Hope that's more clear.
Cheers.

Great job for the clarification. It does make loading much simpler.

Flix

 

[Flix2]

The hand rails are made by a company called Easy Up and yes, must be removed (best thing I ever bought).

My bow turnbuckle and clip is preset at a fixed length so I pull my dinghy up (similar to winching it up on a trailer) attach the fixed bow turnbuckle (that centers it on the platform) and then I tension it with the stern ratchets. I drop my platform but never submerse it. 2 minute job.

Thank you for the tips. The rails look sweet. They are probably good for keeping people from falling overboard while fishing.

Flix

 

[AEO]

Thank you for the tips. The rails look sweet. They are probably good for keeping people from falling overboard while fishing.

Flix

actually the rails are exceptionally good for reboarding after falling overboard ...

 

[RBB]

Thanks

The lights in the showers are side pin g4. Just found out

 

[bajturner]

The lights in the showers are side pin g4. Just found out

I had to use back-pin in mine, like this one.

Different fixture, maybe.

 

[RBB]

I had to use back-pin in mine, like this one.

View attachment 103728
Different fixture, maybe.

must be a difference in model year or what ever Sea Ray had on the self.

 

[Bruce Davenport]

I have a 2007 44db. I am considering removing the radar arch in order to navigate under a few bridges on the Erie Canal. Does anybody know the approximate weight of the radar arch?

 

[bbwhitejr]

I have a 2007 44db. I am considering removing the radar arch in order to navigate under a few bridges on the Erie Canal. Does anybody know the approximate weight of the radar arch?

It is pretty heavy. When mine was broken down for transport and reinstalled on delivery, a crane was used to handle it. Given the weight and the bulk, not sure it could be done by hand. Just my $0.02...

Bennett

 

[bajturner]

I have a 2007 44db. I am considering removing the radar arch in order to navigate under a few bridges on the Erie Canal. Does anybody know the approximate weight of the radar arch?

I don't know the answer to your question, unfortunately. I would say it seems like a major undertaking in the middle of a trip.

Are there destinations along the Western Erie Canal you are interested in, or is it solely part of a transit? If just a transit, you can always hop out to Lake Ontario in Oswego then take the Welland Canal. You are clear on the Eastern leg to the Hudson.

 

[AEO]

I have a 2007 44db. I am considering removing the radar arch in order to navigate under a few bridges on the Erie Canal. Does anybody know the approximate weight of the radar arch?

Mine is off at the moment while I have the transom module repositioned aft. I’ll talk to the shipwrights and get an estimate. She’s an 08’ model so it has the forward roof overhang.

 

[bajturner]

Mine is off at the moment while I have the transom module repositioned aft. I’ll talk to the shipwrights and get an estimate. She’s an 08’ model so it has the forward roof overhang.

I'm still amazed you have having this done. Pretty cool...I don't know if I'd have the balls to do it!!