410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

[Stee6043]

Hello 400's. New guy here...just moved up from a 340 over this past weekend. Brought the boat back from Sturgeon Bay, WI on Sunday. Ran like a champ.

I'm looking for some insight, potentially from folks that have moved up to the 400 from smaller rigs. I found the 97 400 that I bought to be a bit "sloppy" with slow (6-7kts) steering. I was having flash backs of driving a single I/O - a fair amount of steering wheel input required to keep her straight at no-wake in the channel.

Does this seem normal? Is it the additional size compared to a relatively small rudder that I'm experiencing? My 340 tracked pretty darn well when slow cruising. I just want to make sure this is expected or if it's something I should look into. She runs/drives/steers perfectly fine at cruise, FWIW.

Thank you!

 

[TIDALWAVE]

has anyone replaced the small original tv in the main salon on a 97 400 Sundancer? This is the one above the refrigerator just as to the left as you come down the stairs. Marina neighbor wants to replace and the only way I can see is to remove the refrigerator first. There is a little fabric ledge around the top that is just high enough to prevent the tv from sliding out. Plus, the tv appears to be screwed down to a plate holding it in place.

Piece of cake! Every once in a while go your way! Take something flat like a putty knife and insert under that black trim piece and gently pry up. That piece is fastened by these plastic little x-mas tree clips. Remove two screws in front holding the mounting plywood and the unit should slide right out.

 

[yobub]

OK, full on newbie question here: Where is the through hull transducer on a '98 400 Sundancer?

I'm getting flaky water temps and periodic signal loss, and want to check to see if the wiring is tight. Already replace the Raymarine DSM300, no change in response.

 

[yobub]

Hello 400's. New guy here...just moved up from a 340 over this past weekend. Brought the boat back from Sturgeon Bay, WI on Sunday. Ran like a champ.

I'm looking for some insight, potentially from folks that have moved up to the 400 from smaller rigs. I found the 97 400 that I bought to be a bit "sloppy" with slow (6-7kts) steering. I was having flash backs of driving a single I/O - a fair amount of steering wheel input required to keep her straight at no-wake in the channel.

Does this seem normal? Is it the additional size compared to a relatively small rudder that I'm experiencing? My 340 tracked pretty darn well when slow cruising. I just want to make sure this is expected or if it's something I should look into. She runs/drives/steers perfectly fine at cruise, FWIW.

Thank you!

I just bought a '98 400 Sundancer. In the channel, I don't use the wheel at all - just in and out of gear with port and starboard engines as needed to adjust, but don't need much. Wheel is set to 0 degree rudder, throttles at idle. I have three turns to port, one to starboard, and I run it all without barely touching the wheel. Not sure if that answers your question, but that's what I experience on mine. One thing that I have clearly found is that the faster I'm going in the harbor, the harder it is to turn. If I'm slow (bumping in and out of gear periodically) the boat is really responsive. When I have momentum (both engines full idle) it takes alot to turn.

 

[Stee6043]

I just bought a '98 400 Sundancer. In the channel, I don't use the wheel at all - just in and out of gear with port and starboard engines as needed to adjust, but don't need much. Wheel is set to 0 degree rudder, throttles at idle. I have three turns to port, one to starboard, and I run it all without barely touching the wheel. Not sure if that answers your question, but that's what I experience on mine. One thing that I have clearly found is that the faster I'm going in the harbor, the harder it is to turn. If I'm slow (bumping in and out of gear periodically) the boat is really responsive. When I have momentum (both engines full idle) it takes alot to turn.

Thanks for the response. I'm assuming this is going to be the new normal. I topped off the fluid this week and she seemed a bit more response. I believe I have a slight leak at the helm.

Unfortunately with gassers it's not realistic to steer with only the trans when in a crowded harbor. I crawl at a leisurely 3 knots at idle. Unlike you diesel guys

 

[Cocktail Time]

OK, full on newbie question here: Where is the through hull transducer on a '98 400 Sundancer?

I'm getting flaky water temps and periodic signal loss, and want to check to see if the wiring is tight. Already replace the Raymarine DSM300, no change in response.

My transducer is just in front of the step in the engine room facing the front of the boat.

 

[Stee6043]

Have any of you guys had the helm switch for your windlass stop working while the rest of the system works fine (on/off, foot switches)? I'm told the prior owner of my boat replaced the rocker switch with no success. I'd like to start trouble shooting. I did not find the solenoid in the engine room so I'm assuming it's in the anchor locker (haven't checked yet).

I'm hoping there is a rogue fuse somewhere I can find, blown. But my luck may not be the strong...

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[Cocktail Time]

Solenoid is in anchor locker. Could just be corroded terminal for the helm switch on the solenoid. It was on mine. Also, there are two switches at my helm, one turns the solenoid on and the one on the right is forward and reverse for the windlass. At least that is the way it is supposed to work. My switch on the left does nothing. Make sure you are getting power to the solenoid then check the switch wiring, they both have to be on so you don't accidentally engage the windlass.

 

[mtnandy]

Actually the solenoid is close to the sink in the cockpit if you look at your fuse panel in that area you will notice that there is a 50 amp breaker for The Windlass. Remove that panel and you will find on the backside the solenoid. The control box is in the anchor Locker and it can at times need to be cleaned and the contacts cleaned. Your problem may just be the helm switch that energizes the system , not the up , down switch.
Stee6043 --- you should have bought my boat. No steering issues with the diesel and everything works --- everything.

 

[ttmott]

Actually the solenoid is close to the sink in the cockpit if you look at your fuse panel in that area you will notice that there is a 50 amp breaker for The Windlass. Remove that panel and you will find on the backside the solenoid. The control box is in the anchor Locker and it can at times need to be cleaned and the contacts cleaned. Your problem may just be the helm switch that energizes the system , not the up , down switch.
Stee6043 --- you should have bought my boat. No steering issues with the diesel and everything works --- everything.

Yes and No - that solenoid is the latching solenoid to get power up to the anchor locker which is operated by the windlass Main switch on the helm. In the black box are two other solenoids that actually operate the windless motor. Rarely are there problems with latching solenoids however most have corrosion issues in that aft breaker panel.

 

[mtnandy]

The box in the anchor locker is refered to as the control box. Not solenoid. The picture you are showing is as you stated the locking solenoid. When you press the left windless switch on the dash it powers the solenoid and also turn the power off. If it is working right you will hear the solenoid engage when you power it up. The right switch is up , down -- along with the fwd deck foot switches. I just repaired mine. The left helm windless switch light was off and I could not turn the power to the solenoid off. It was energized all the time. The problem was the left switch. Cheap fix.

 

[mtnandy]

Yes and No - that solenoid is the latching solenoid to get power up to the anchor locker which is operated by the windlass Main switch on the helm. In the black box are two other solenoids that actually operate the windless motor. Rarely are there problems with latching solenoids however most have corrosion

issues in that aft breaker panel.
View attachment 57628

these electrical components on my 1997 400 da are enclosed in a sealed box with Plexiglas clear cover.

 

[ttmott]

The box in the anchor locker is refered to as the control box. Not solenoid. The picture you are showing is as you stated the locking solenoid. When you press the left windless switch on the dash it powers the solenoid and also turn the power off. If it is working right you will hear the solenoid engage when you power it up. The right switch is up , down -- along with the fwd deck foot switches. I just repaired mine. The left helm windless switch light was off and I could not turn the power to the solenoid off. It was energized all the time. The problem was the left switch. Cheap fix.

Within that "control box" in the rode locker are two small high current solenoids in which the anchor up and down switch on the helm interfaces. One of the solenoids turns the windlass motor one direction and the other turns the motor the other direction. They simply reverse the current polarity to the motor. Schematic attached.

 

[mtnandy]

Within that "control box" in the rode locker are two small high current solenoids in which the anchor up and down switch on the helm interfaces. One of the solenoids turns the windlass motor one direction and the other turns the motor the other direction. They simply reverse the current polarity to the motor.
Schematic attached.View attachment 57640
View attachment 57640

I like the schematic , good job ! These are the contacts I referee to that have to be cleaned up on occasion.

 

[mtnandy]

Within that "control box" in the rode locker are two small high current solenoids in which the anchor up and down switch on the helm interfaces. One of the solenoids turns the windlass motor one direction and the other turns the motor the other direction. They simply reverse the current polarity to the motor. Schematic attached.View attachment 57640

here are actual pictures of the control box and the actual solenoids

which are in one unit. I removed and cleaned mine a few weeks ago.

 

[Woody]

Hello 400's. New guy here...just moved up from a 340 over this past weekend. Brought the boat back from Sturgeon Bay, WI on Sunday. Ran like a champ.

I'm looking for some insight, potentially from folks that have moved up to the 400 from smaller rigs. I found the 97 400 that I bought to be a bit "sloppy" with slow (6-7kts) steering. I was having flash backs of driving a single I/O - a fair amount of steering wheel input required to keep her straight at no-wake in the channel.

Does this seem normal? Is it the additional size compared to a relatively small rudder that I'm experiencing? My 340 tracked pretty darn well when slow cruising. I just want to make sure this is expected or if it's something I should look into. She runs/drives/steers perfectly fine at cruise, FWIW.

Thank you!

Your post reminds me of me when I first got my 420DA. I turned the wheel like I was driving the 280DA, it didn't respond like I expected and I thought something was wrong. What I found with the wheel is a response takes time to happen and to keep it straight at slow speeds really only requires very small wheel movement but you have to wait for it to happen. If you don't you're over steering and the effect is like driving a single I/O, and you go zig-zagging down the canal.

My friend has a 40+ aft cabin with 454's. He has trouble with slow speed handling in the marinas and docking. He continues to drive it like a car, steering wheel only. I've been telling him set the wheel straight and use the shifters, maybe occasionally some extra throttle. Last fall he asked me to show him and was very happy when he saw he could get a much faster response, and a response that requires less room by using shift levers at slow speed critical times.

 

[Stee6043]

This forum is the absolute best. Thank you for the windlass help!!! I'm going to start with the control box since the foot switches work. It's also interesting to hear about the main switches not working since my left switch does not illuminate though, as said, the foot switches work. Perhaps mine is also "always on". I assumed the lamp was simply burned out.

You guys are the best.

 

[Stee6043]

Your post reminds me of me when I first got my 420DA. I turned the wheel like I was driving the 280DA, it didn't respond like I expected and I thought something was wrong. What I found with the wheel is a response takes time to happen and to keep it straight at slow speeds really only requires very small wheel movement but you have to wait for it to happen. If you don't you're over steering and the effect is like driving a single I/O, and you go zig-zagging down the canal.

My friend has a 40+ aft cabin with 454's. He has trouble with slow speed handling in the marinas and docking. He continues to drive it like a car, steering wheel only. I've been telling him set the wheel straight and use the shifters, maybe occasionally some extra throttle. Last fall he asked me to show him and was very happy when he saw he could get a much faster response, and a response that requires less room by using shift levers at slow speed critical times.

This is great feedback. Thank you for sharing. I seemed to do a bit better this past weekend with the boat. I think some of it was indeed that I was overdriving the boat. I think part of it may also have been a slight lack of hydraulic fluid. Or perhaps it's 92% in my head.

I do regularly drive with shifters only. Generally only in the fairway of my marina. I only hesitate to do this in the busy channels due to lack of speed. It would be a lot of back and forth between throttles and shifters to keep her going 5 knots +/-. Good suggestion though.

 

[Stee6043]

Stee6043 --- you should have bought my boat. No steering issues with the diesel and everything works --- everything.

Well played, MT....well played

Truth be told I was originally dead set on diesels. Shoulda/coulda/woulda. The cost to get your boat inspected and up to me was turning into 5X the cost to drive one across Lake Michigan. For a guy on my budget this turned out to be a pretty big factor. That and the fear of potentially replacing one of those beasts down the road.

Thank you for your feedback though! I suspect your boat would be been an absolute gem...

 

[Woody]

This is great feedback. Thank you for sharing. I seemed to do a bit better this past weekend with the boat. I think some of it was indeed that I was overdriving the boat. I think part of it may also have been a slight lack of hydraulic fluid. Or perhaps it's 92% in my head.

I do regularly drive with shifters only. Generally only in the fairway of my marina. I only hesitate to do this in the busy channels due to lack of speed. It would be a lot of back and forth between throttles and shifters to keep her going 5 knots +/-. Good suggestion though.

I've been forced to run the waterway out to the lake off plane. I've been playing it safe because I was getting blamed for every big wake on the waterway, even during a 3 week period after I hit rocks and my boat was down folks were claiming I was out there throwing big wakes. I'm innocent I'm telling you.

This puts me in the same situation, going to fast to be steering with shifters without working the throttles also. What I do often is still not touch the wheel....I just steer with the throttles.