40 sedan bridge forum

[ZZ13]

Public Information Notice:
So in correcting my fresh water leak from my failed master head shower fittings, this is what I found out...the water that leaked from the master head shower fittings located behind the galley fridge ( and I would suspect it might be the same from a possible leak in the galley sink fittings ) does not immediately find its way to the forward sump/bilge area, as you would expect. Nor can it flow back to the aft bilge area in the ER due to the engine room bulkhead. Instead, it flows into a hidden, non accessible space just aft of the galley floor hold where it steps up next to the rear AC unit. My water collected in there until the level came up high enough (at least 6-8") before spilling over into the rear of the fwd sump/bilge area next to the bilge pump, through a small access hole cut to accommodate the galley sink water lines after they tee off from the main lines in the fwd bilge area. Not an optimal design in my opinion. I sucked and siphoned about 3-4 gallons of water through that small access hole which would have sat and sloshed around in there until it evaporated, which who knows how long that would of taken. Has anyone accessed that area by cutting an access hole they might want to share?


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Can you post pictures of exactly the area you are referencing.


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[NaughtyDog]

I will when I return to the boat hopefully tmrw


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[Islandbound]

Can you post pictures of exactly the area you are referencing.


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Is this the same area as the compartment below the galley floor? I previously did an A/C flush and popped a line off the main A/C unit which resulted soaked floor where I keep my extra oversized galley items.


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[ZZ13]

So yesterday I replaced a port Cummins seawater pump on a fellow 400DB owners boat. I managed to do it without removing the after cooler but it was still a lengthy event. I removed the air pipe between the after cooler and the engine, disconnected the water hose at the top of the after cooler and moved it out of the way, disconnected the short hose between the pump and the fuel cooler, and unbolted the coolant tank and moved it out of the way as much as I could. Moving the coolant tank allowed me to get my shoulder in far enough for my hand to reach down to the two mounting bolts. I left the intake hose attached to the bottom of the pump and pulled the pump up to the space created by removing the after cooler air pipe and water hose. There is plenty of slack in the long intake hose to make that bend. At that spot I unbolted the metal hose elbows to pull off the old pump and then rebolted them to attache the new pump. Special attention should be made to make sure the lower pipe was turned to the optimum angle to prevent the intake hose from pulling the pump outward, making it hard to push the pump back into the gear housing (I didn't pay attention and had to pull it back up and changed the angle after I couldn't push it in flush). I used grease to stick the new gasket to the pump mounting face so it wouldn't fall off. Still took me a good 4 hours, but I did take breaks to count all the red spots on my chest and arms from laying on metal and reaching down into the outside of the engine.

Posted in case this helps or discourages you all.

 

[NaughtyDog]

Is this the same area as the compartment below the galley floor? I previously did an A/C flush and popped a line off the main A/C unit which resulted soaked floor where I keep my extra oversized galley items.


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Just aft of the hold under the galley floor where it steps up to a ledge the same level that the AC unit sits on. The area I am referring to is under that ledge in the aft section of the hold in the galley floor.


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[NaughtyDog]

So yesterday I replaced a port Cummins seawater pump on a fellow 400DB owners boat. I managed to do it without removing the after cooler but it was still a lengthy event. I removed the air pipe between the after cooler and the engine, disconnected the water hose at the top of the after cooler and moved it out of the way, disconnected the short hose between the pump and the fuel cooler, and unbolted the coolant tank and moved it out of the way as much as I could. Moving the coolant tank allowed me to get my shoulder in far enough for my hand to reach down to the two mounting bolts. I left the intake hose attached to the bottom of the pump and pulled the pump up to the space created by removing the after cooler air pipe and water hose. There is plenty of slack in the long intake hose to make that bend. At that spot I unbolted the metal hose elbows to pull off the old pump and then rebolted them to attache the new pump. Special attention should be made to make sure the lower pipe was turned to the optimum angle to prevent the intake hose from pulling the pump outward, making it hard to push the pump back into the gear housing (I didn't pay attention and had to pull it back up and changed the angle after I couldn't push it in flush). I used grease to stick the new gasket to the pump mounting face so it wouldn't fall off. Still took me a good 4 hours, but I did take breaks to count all the red spots on my chest and arms from laying on metal and reaching down into the outside of the engine.

Posted in case this helps or discourages you all.

I sure hope said "fellow 400DB owner" was very thankful for your time and efforts!


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[Nepenthe]

In my boat the area below the air [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]conditioner is accessible from a hatch beneath the starboard bunk in the stateroom. This bilge has its own pump aft of the va[/FONT]cuflush units[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

Just aft of the hold under the galley floor where it steps up to a ledge the same level that the AC unit sits on. The area I am referring to is under that ledge in the aft section of the hold in the galley floor.


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[NaughtyDog]

In my boat the area below the air [FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]conditioner is accessible from a hatch beneath the starboard bunk in the stateroom. This bilge has its own pump aft of the va[/FONT]cuflush units[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]. [/FONT]

Just starboard of the area you are referencing


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[Zephyr]

Due to he baffles built into the tank design, ultrasonic senders tend to be unreliable in a Sea Ray with Florida Marine tanks. At one time, Florida Marine sold a floating puck sender that is much better and more reliable than the swinging arm type. I've had them for 10+ years.......

Thanks for you feedback Frank, when I next get to the boat I will check the details an order new floating puck senders.

Z

 

[Zephyr]

A heads up for 400DB owners with 6CTA’s
I recently purchased a 400DB and sold our much loved 340DA. During the sea trial the mechanic noted the amount of smoke the boat was blowing and reluctance to go over 2500rpm and suggested it may be the air cleaner or that she was over propped. He also noted that the turbos had both been replaced recently (within 14months) however they had not coated them and surface rust had appeared (see pic) – his recommendation was to remove and clean up.

I accepted the boat knowing there is always a few items that need addressing and went to work cleaning coolers, flushing systems and finally got around to addressing the turbos. When I unbolted the exhaust connection the issue was clear – the mixers had failed some time ago and allowed seawater mist/vapour to interact with the turbine exhaust (see pic) and corrode the turbo housing.

All parts bar the turbos are original, the root cause is that Sea Ray failed to earth/ground the mixers to the hull earth/ground and over the last 16 years’ sea water has turned the mixer internals to Swiss cheese (pics to come) I now have new mixers and turbos on order and will throw an earth strap on to the mixer elbow the day I install them, especially as there is a tab to do so on the underside of the elbow.

So, if you’re down on power, have increased smoke, soot appearing on the stern or see signs of corrosion around the turbine flange you may be in the same boat…pardon the pun.

 

[Zephyr]

With the pics....

 

[Zephyr]

I keep getting an IO error on the up load of the pics.

I will try again later.

 

[ZZ13]

A heads up for 400DB owners with 6CTA’s
I recently purchased a 400DB and sold our much loved 340DA. During the sea trial the mechanic noted the amount of smoke the boat was blowing and reluctance to go over 2500rpm and suggested it may be the air cleaner or that she was over propped. He also noted that the turbos had both been replaced recently (within 14months) however they had not coated them and surface rust had appeared (see pic) – his recommendation was to remove and clean up.

I accepted the boat knowing there is always a few items that need addressing and went to work cleaning coolers, flushing systems and finally got around to addressing the turbos. When I unbolted the exhaust connection the issue was clear – the mixers had failed some time ago and allowed seawater mist/vapour to interact with the turbine exhaust (see pic) and corrode the turbo housing.

All parts bar the turbos are original, the root cause is that Sea Ray failed to earth/ground the mixers to the hull earth/ground and over the last 16 years’ sea water has turned the mixer internals to Swiss cheese (pics to come) I now have new mixers and turbos on order and will throw an earth strap on to the mixer elbow the day I install them, especially as there is a tab to do so on the underside of the elbow.

So, if you’re down on power, have increased smoke, soot appearing on the stern or see signs of corrosion around the turbine flange you may be in the same boat…pardon the pun.

How did you come to the conclusion that the lack of a bonding wire caused the problem? The mixing elbows drain completely when the engine is off (at least mine do - I have had my exhaust hose connected to the elbow off several times and there has never been standing water in the elbow). There shouldn't be any water sitting in the outer sleeve of the elbow. Did you find any shower holes plugged?

Also, why are you replacing the turbo? Why can't that just be cleaned off or just replace that housing of the turbo?

 

[Arickosmo]

Anyone got a moderately decent measurement on the stern locker? My wife wants to get going on the name for the boat and I have never measured the door to the stern locker. Our boat is 3 hours away still, and...well...still not ours. We're close.

 

[Zephyr]

How did you come to the conclusion that the lack of a bonding wire caused the problem? The mixing elbows drain completely when the engine is off (at least mine do - I have had my exhaust hose connected to the elbow off several times and there has never been standing water in the elbow). There shouldn't be any water sitting in the outer sleeve of the elbow. Did you find any shower holes plugged?

Also, why are you replacing the turbo? Why can't that just be cleaned off or just replace that housing of the turbo?

It's not the standing sea water that is the issue, apparently it is the time running at low revs - such as warming up the engine prior to departing or allowing the engine to idle for longer periods on cool down. The combination of heat cycles and moist sea air is the perfect environment for corrosion. Even 316 stainless will be chewed up in this environment if there is no electrical connection to the sacrificial anode - that is why Cummins have an bonding tab welded on to the mixer.

I initially did clean the turbo up, hoping I could get a year or 2 out of it. I cleaned the outside and coated to prevent further deterioration and also removed the scale from inside the turbine housing - that was the final nail for them. The clearance between the blade tip and the housing is way too large (see in the pic), that clearance is where my power loss and smoke issues stem from - the turbine wheel has too much exhaust gas slipping past which in turn is not driving the compressor hard enough.

Brace yourself for some Southern Hemisphere figures. The current turbo's are re manufactured from a local shop. A new housing is $1600, and a whole new (not reman) turbo is $2600. The choice is to repair an unknown re manufactured turbo or spend another $1k and have brand new OEM parts, I will take the $ hit - knowing it will be trouble free for our time with the boat.

I'll have a go at posting the pics again.

 

[ZZ13]

Z, I took off my port mixing elbow a few months ago and it and the turbo looked fine. I'll be doing the starboard side in a few weeks to replace that first exhaust hose. I will post what I find. The engines have 1400 hours.


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[Arickosmo]

Signed papers today! With any SERIOUS luck, we'll be proud owners by the weekend. I'm not holding my breath but hey, a guy can hope. Besides, the weather doesn't look too good up on Lake Michigan this weekend for a maiden voyage. Fingers crossed!

 

[PMC]

With the pics....

Did the mechanic give you a measurement on the fin clearence? It does look wide, but pictures and shadowing can be misleading. What did the risers look like inside?
What you are describing sounds like what i found inside my mixers, and all the research says this is "normal" as the mixers do have a shelf life in a salt environment. I'm not a believer that bonding would have made any difference. The engine is grounded, so is the turbo, and the mixer is just the same. I'm not a metallurgy type guy, but suspect the right mix of salt spray, and diesel exhaust cause this to happen in stainless.......

Although my turbos did not look as bad, i do believe they were experiencing salt spray from a leaking mixer.....much like what you are describing. I skipped the stock design, and redesigned with adding a 9" dry rise hump. FWIW I believe this is a common problem with Cummins and 40 sedan bridge boats. In the next few years I suspect you will hear of more problems related.....some catastrophic, unfortunately.

 

[PMC]

Also, why are you replacing the turbo? Why can't that just be cleaned off or just replace that housing of the turbo?

I searched high and low trying to find a Holset water cooled jacket housing. Nobody is selling them, and if they are it's junk.......if anybody has a different experience, I would be very interested in talking with you.

 

[PMC]

Anyone got a moderately decent measurement on the stern locker? My wife wants to get going on the name for the boat and I have never measured the door to the stern locker. Our boat is 3 hours away still, and...well...still not ours. We're close.

I want to say it's 3 feet or so.....but would not commit to a name on that info. Good luck with the purchase!