2nd Admendment Sanctuary?

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by dwna1a, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. dwna1a

    dwna1a Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 23, 2012
    James River
    88 Weekender 300 "Seahorse"
    Twins 350
    So one of our county board members wants us to be a 2nd Admendment Sanctuary, just what is a 2nd Admendment Sanctuary and why do we suddenly need this? Do other areas of the country have these?

    I did see a bill in the VA Senate that will turn me into a Class 6 Felon for owning a AR. Can they really do this? How?
     
  2. Chris-380

    Chris-380 Active Member

    377
    Jan 20, 2019
    Pontoon Beach IL
    380 Sundancer 2000
    454 Horizon w/V drives
    My county voted to be a sanctuary city, I am on my county board.....

    Imo, the sanctuary city means they will not enforce (prosecute) some laws (state?) that they feel violate the 2nd amendment
     
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  3. Jaybeaux

    Jaybeaux Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    681
    Jan 3, 2016
    Upper Potomac River
    420 Sundancer 2004
    Naught On Call
    Cummins 6CTA-8.3's with V-Drives
    9KW Onan Genset
    With the election last month, the Dems now control both the House of Delegates and the Senate. Not to mention the Governor's Mansion, both US Senators and 7 out of 11 US House of Representative seats. In the words of Obama, "elections have consequences". They will attempt to strike while the iron is hot.

    If the roles were reversed, the cries of fascism and totalitarianism would be deafening.

    Jaybeaux
     
  4. spikedaddy99

    spikedaddy99 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 11, 2008
    Prentice, Wi
    2005 500 DB
    QSM-11
    Glad I left Virginia...
     
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  5. b_arrington

    b_arrington Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 21, 2007
    Setauket, NY
    2018 Back Cove 34
    Cummins QSB 6.7 480
    Saw something about this on 60 Minutes a couple weeks ago.

    Some places are enacting "red flag" gun laws. These are laws that allow for the a temporary removal of guns from the possession of people that have been documented by a court have high risk of perpetrating gun violence. Risks include metal illness, domestic violence, etc.

    There is a full court hearing with evidence and legal due process. Usually it is law enforcement that starts the red flag process by filing with a court for a red flag gun seizure warrant. The goal is to get guns away from an potentially unstable person to diffuse a situation and get them help. The gun removal is temporary and the guns must be returned by a set date (often no later than 1 year).

    "2nd amendment sanctuary cities" are places that, in part, disagree with red flag laws both in concept and practice. One of the ways this is manifested is that law enforcement refuses to file a red flag warrant with the courts, or otherwise participate in any red flag based gun seizure activity.

    Personally, the red flag laws seem like a reasonable step. Have a full legal process with a hearing a rules of evidence and transparency, get guns out of a volatile situation, get them to a place where they are safe, have a process by which they will be returned (they are not permanently seized), and get help for the person that needs it.
     
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  6. wyrman

    wyrman Well-Known Member

    Jul 12, 2012
    Tri-Cities, Wa
    2007 310 Sundancer
    Twin 350's, V drives
    1994 18' Bluewater bowrider
    Washington State has a red flag law.
    It can be anyone that decides to turn you in to get your guns taken away, like an ex, or soon to be ex for instance.
    From what I understand, they take your guns away and you have to fight to get them back.
    It is not a good law, it's just a step in the direction of taking them away from everyone.
     
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  7. Boat Guy

    Boat Guy Well-Known Member

    What it really means is this country is getting more divisive and polarized....

    I'm certain I'm biased, but I see it as Democrats removing the fundamental principles of our country and some municipalities pushing back where they can.

    My hope is that SCOTUS will set things straight when the dust settles. The problem is, the liberals try to get the cases removed before SCOTUS decides if they'll hear it. This happens often where they pass some illegal law and then win challenges to liberal judges, only to relent years later when it seems SCOTUS might hear the case and set precedent.

    What's troubling to me is that liberals claim the moral high ground and social awareness yet preach policies that are socialist and weaken our freedom and nation.

    It's funny that the narrative is that Trump is Russia's puppet, when in fact the liberal agenda is far more aligned with giving China and Russia what they want.

    The entire marginalization of POTUS this cycle has played into China and Russia's hand. BRICS and hypersonic missiles didn't happen over night....This is the long strategy of both nations...They play a role in influencing the easily influenced, without them even knowing they are being influenced. Putin has to be enjoying the liberals doing the work for him.

    Lose the ability to defend yourself and it's another chink in the armor of this nations freedom and strength...

    To answer your question, 2A Sanctuary is push back on a liberal agenda to remove the ability to defend yourself.

    They both hate the police dept and simultaneously what to remove your weapons.

    (ok, I might have gotten a bit long winded in my answer...)
     
  8. OllieC

    OllieC Active Member

    777
    Mar 11, 2013
    MinniSoCold
    Sara Belle
    2005 Weekender 215
    Mercruiser 5.0 mpi, Bravo III
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

    Let me ask a question, this is in regards to establishing 'LAWS'; Is it easier for Government to pass new laws & regulations or is it easier to remove them? It's rhetorical.

    It never stops, especially where the Left is concerned. Red Flag Laws may seem like a 'feel good' thing to do today, but tomorrow you'll be fighting for, not only your 2nd Amendment Bill of Rights, but also your 4th....and so much for the presumption of innocence. The Bill of Rights order wasn't drawn out of a top hat. There's a reason it's the 2nd.
     
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  9. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    I'd think when a red flag complaint is made, then time is of the essence. It would defeat the purpose if it wasn't. What you'll have is police showing up quickly to confiscate the guns. It'll be after the fact that you'll get your chance to contest, in other words...guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
     
  10. hottoddie

    hottoddie Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2012
    Boston/Cape Cod
    1986 Sea Ray 390 EC
    Garmin 4212 Chartplotter
    Garmin 24 HD Radar
    Garmin 546s Plotter
    454 Crusaders
    Of course. It will be used just like restraining orders are used to get a spouse out of the house (almost always the male). Had my ex put in an affidavit that I owned a stun gun. It was a Crossman pellet pistol I bought at Walmart. Of course her BS got the desired result only to be thrown out by a judge at the follow up hearing. Only cost me 2k to prove my innocence and the order reversed. Had to turn in CCL to the police dept as well.
     
  11. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    691
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    Red flag laws can work only if there is a punishment for their abuse.
     
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  12. ttmott

    ttmott PhD in OCD GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Like a FISA Court??
    There's not a judge in America that will turn down a request regardless of the data; they would not want the risk and exposure should a denial result in an event.....
     
  13. b_arrington

    b_arrington Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 21, 2007
    Setauket, NY
    2018 Back Cove 34
    Cummins QSB 6.7 480
    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

    The “well regulated” part could also mean don’t let psychos and violent people have unfettered access to guns. It seems like there’s no regulation.
     
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  14. OllieC

    OllieC Active Member

    777
    Mar 11, 2013
    MinniSoCold
    Sara Belle
    2005 Weekender 215
    Mercruiser 5.0 mpi, Bravo III
    Maybe so, however the problem with your argument is there are 'commas' in the sentence of the Amendment.
    Seems psycho's who "had" unfettered access to guns until the last couple of decades weren't an issue like today. What changed?
     
  15. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Sounds like VA is going the way of NY.
    In NY, heavily populated NYC and it’s suburbs basically control the statewide vote and impose their progressive liberal will on the rest of the state.
    I suspect that a similar situation has happened in Virginia where by shear numbers the heavily populated DC suburbs are calling all the shots.
    Get out if you can. It will only get worse.
    I’d be out of NY in a heartbeat if I could convince my wife to leave.
    I’d stay out of a Florida and North Carolina too if you can. Most of the people fleeing NY are heading to those two states and it’s only a matter of time before they destroy them too.
    Southeast Florida is already filled up with relocated NY liberals.
     
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  16. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Yes abuse, just point a finger, make your accusation. There plenty of people that will abuse it. Backwards we'll go...
    GettyImages-514890422.jpg
     
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  17. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    I would be in favor of a punishment for an improper use of a red flag law. An example, a soon to be ex-wife who is pi$$ed off at her hubby and wants a way to get back at him calls her local police and tells them (untruthfully) that he has threatened to shoot her and has a houseful of guns to do it.

    The cops come, take his guns and he'll have to spend a lot to go through the judicial game playing to get them back.

    That is just not fair and the penalties for that should be the same as for mis-reporting any crime.
     
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  18. DWABoat

    DWABoat Member

    98
    Aug 13, 2019
    S Louisiana
    2001 280 Sundancer
    1989 220CC Cuddy Cabin
    Twin 4.3 w/Alpha Ones
    5.7 Mercruiser Alpha One
    I don’t chime in on politics. I keep my politics to myself. This discussion is not political. I am a registered Independent. No bias here. I have to jump in on this one.

    To get an arrest warrant to take someone’s liberty, even temporarily, the government must produce evidence, in the amount of probable cause, that someone has committed, or actually tried to commit, a crime. There must be some action to point at to convince the judge to sign the warrant. So, if criminal nutcase wanted to commit some violent crime, but had done nothing at all towards that crime - no discussion with a witness, no obtaining the means, no written plans, etc, then it would be virtually impossible to document intent that the person intended to commit a crime. If nutcase talked about doing something bad, had plans, etc, we can already address that situation with attempt or conspiracy laws.

    I am dumbfounded that these laws allow the government to take someone’s property when there are only the opinions and concerns of others that they may do something bad in the future. This is a very scary path.

    Supposedly, the goal is to prevent a violent crime and, thus death and injury.
    If the concerns are the person will commit an act of violence in the future, then the recent stabbings in Europe dictate that we must take all edged weapons as well. Later, we see the person could drive into a crowd. Take the car. Later we learn the person could mix household chemicals in a pressure cooker. Take the bleach and the cooking instruments. How do we solve the problem of neutering a threat? Taking the guns will not do this. The govt will have to take all threatening instrumentalities.

    When the Red Flag laws are unsuccessful in stopping violence, as they will fail, the govt will have to expand the scope to what is being taken and who is subject to being neutered.

    When a govt can take your liberty, take your property, and take your speech, because of something you may do, we as a country have crossed to the side of totalitarianism. Period. No argument can change the fundamental concept.

    I write this as a 26-year law enforcement officer. Red Flag Laws are a bad power to give me or anyone. Period.
     
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  19. Golfman25

    Golfman25 Well-Known Member

    691
    Sep 12, 2009
    IL
    281
    V8
    I wouldn't even apply "red flag" laws to that situation. We are talking about the guy who for several days or weeks before an event makes statements, acts out, posts on social media, that something is going down and has weapons. There needs to be a trail of evidence, circumstantial though it may be. Have to make the standard more than "he's scary."
     
  20. DWABoat

    DWABoat Member

    98
    Aug 13, 2019
    S Louisiana
    2001 280 Sundancer
    1989 220CC Cuddy Cabin
    Twin 4.3 w/Alpha Ones
    5.7 Mercruiser Alpha One
    I agree. “Weapons” can be many things. If the issue is really prevention of violence, and not simply a means to have gun control, then the only way to prevent the violence in your example is to secure/restrain the person before they commit the feared act of violence.

    This is why I fear Red Flag laws. All Americans should fear them- conservative, liberal, libertarians, ....
     

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