220 Sundeck Thread - Questions and Answers

Discussion in 'Sport Boats' started by STIHLBOLTS, Oct 3, 2006.

  1. ravill

    ravill New Member

    25
    Sep 26, 2014
    Pacifica
    220 Sundeck OB
    200 hp Mercury
    I wanted to share the camper/eisenglass enclosure I got for my 220 OB. It was fantastic! I went out on SF bay on a windy/choppy day and didn't get a drop on me.

    Coupled with the bow cover, I kept the salt water pretty much completely out of the boat!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. BuoyCall

    BuoyCall New Member

    1
    May 17, 2015
    N Florida
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Currently looking at a 2003 SD 220 with the 260hp 5.0 and Alpha 1. Is this going to be enough power to play with if I have a full boat of people and to pull the kids on a tube or wakeboard? Im concerned it might be underpowered. Any users with this combo who can provide insight?
     
  3. thegotoguyr

    thegotoguyr New Member

    201
    Mar 6, 2014
    Kelowna B.C.
    2003 220SD
    5.0 mpi Alpha 1
    It is not an obviously under powered set up but it can be a bit slow to get up on plane pulling a tube and likes to slow on hard turns. I usually have pretty full fuel tank and water tank with 5 or 6 on board. Also I dont have a tower Sso I am pulling from the stern hook. Ive always thought a tower would make all the difference it needed. It does get up and go plenty enough after 10 seconds or so. A good tube makes a difference as well, I pulled the rope loop off the cheap one, but not until its second season. Got a good one that works much better.
    The trade off is that when cruising around not towing it is a very comfortable boat with plenty of room for our family.
    When Im not pulling a tube she pops up and pushes 50mph no problem.

    If you are looking for a towboat for more than 50% of the time I would consider more power or a bravo or add a tower. I just cant stand the looks of after market towers and like to be able to put mine in the garage so no tower for me.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  4. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    Re: 220 Sundeck Thread - What Is Your Tow Vehicle?

    I'm looking for a new tow rig for my 220 Sundeck. I'm considering the Ford F-150. What do you use to tow yours?

    My 2005 220, loaded with fuel, water, gear and trailer calculates to about 6,000 lbs., which exceeds the weight carrying capacity of most factory installed hitch systems on half ton trucks and SUVs (which are typically class III systems). Even the new Ford F-150, with its 11,000-12,000 lb. max towing capacity, still limits weight carrying configurations to 5,0000 lbs. trailer and 500 lbs. tongue weight. And though I have read about people who use weight distributing hitch systems with boat trailers with surge brakes, I have never personally seen one in use, and my trailer manufacturer, Road King, says it will degrade brake performance.

    So, what's your tow rig and hitch configuration, and how do you like it?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  5. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    Re: 220 Sundeck Thread - What Is Your Tow Vehicle?

    Most new trucks with tow packages have class IV hitches, my old '13 Ram 1500 and new '15 Silverado 1500 have class IV hitches stock. I would be really surprised if the new F150 with a trailering package had only a class III. When I was researching the Ford towing that says '500/5000lbs' is the bumper hitch if I remember.

    The hitch on the new silverado is rated at 1200lbs weight carrying, of course the TRUCK cant do that without WD and stay within max rear axle weight, manual recommends 800lbs without weight distribution. The Ram was similar but anything over 600lbs tongue weight w/o weight distribution and the rear would sag pretty bad, even though the hitch was rated at 1200lbs weight carrying.

    Dual axle boat trailers are set up to have 5-10% tongue weight, my old 260DA and trailer was right at 10,000lbs and had 700lbs on the tongue, my old E6 Crownline (28' deck boat) was 8200lbs total and had 550lbs on the tongue. Weigh yours to be sure.

    My old '13 ram 1500 towed the Crownline with no problem, I did move the 260DA with it a few miles and I wouldnt try it for any distance since it was pretty much on the rear stops. The new '15 220SD I just bought its 4350lbs dry and the trailer is 1400lbs and tows just fine. I havent checked the tongue or total weight yet but the truck only drops maybe an inch in the rear so its not over 450lbs on the tongue I bet.

    Either way you should have no problems with any of the new 1/2 tons w/towing package with 6000lbs total, even if there is 10% on the tongue. Just have to watch you max cargo capacity, some high optioned 4x4 1/2 ton trucks with 10K tow ratings only have 1200lb cargo capacity. Put 600lbs on the tongue and you only have 600lbs for driver, passengers and gear - not enough if you have a family.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  6. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    Re: 220 Sundeck Thread - What Is Your Tow Vehicle?

    Thanks for the detailed response. I have not weighed my boat or tongue, which I agree I should do to be sure of what I am dealing with. However, it handles fine with my '01 1500 Suburban, and I expect an F-150 would handle fine as well, but the specs are what bothers me. Ford specifically lists a Class IV hitch receiver with their new trucks, at least the ones with the Max Trailer Tow Package - it's right on the window sticker. However, the towing literature, and the capacity sticker on the hitch receiver itself, specify a maximum of 5,000 lbs. trailer weight with a maximum of 500 lbs. tongue weight (the 5,000 lbs. "bumper only" limitation also exists, but it is a separate limitation). Chevy has the same 5,000/500 limitation on their hitch receivers (I checked the limitation stickers on several trucks at the dealer, both Ford and Chevy). The weight distributing limitations are higher, but the weight carrying limitations are in Class III territory, not Class IV. I can find nothing to indicate that the weight carrying capacity is any more than 5,000 lbs. for any Ford or Chevy 1/2 ton truck. If you get a chance, check the hitch receiver sticker on your '15 Silverado. I'll bet the weight carrying limitation is 5,000/500.

    Since I never see weight distributing hitches on boats (I know some people have them, but I have not personally seen one), it would seem that everyone pulling a 220 Sundeck or larger with a weight carrying hitch on a 1/2 ton truck is exceeding the weight limitations of the hitch system. I'm hoping someone can prove me wrong because I'd rather not install weight distributing hitch or have to buy a 3/4 ton truck, but that is what my research is suggesting.

    Mike
     
  7. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    A class IV hitch is rated at a minimum 1200lb weight carrying, 12,000lb load regardless of what truck its bolted on. If its not it can't be called a class IV.

    Of course the trucks have a limitation, but its not the hitch if it has a class IV. The owners manual for this '15 Silverado says plain as day not to exceed 800lbs of tongue weight. That is simply because anything over will put too much weight on the rear wheels, the function of a weight distributing hitch is moving part of the tongue weight to the front axle and thats how you get to the max 1200lbs of tongue weight the hitch is rated for. Properly set up WD hitch and ~600lbs will go the front and 600lbs will go to the rear.

    The sticker on my hitch says 1200lbs tongue max and 12,000 trailer weight max, plain as day on the bottom of the tube. I have the factory trailering package but not the 'max' tow, its rated for 9400lbs and has 1750lb cargo capacity. The Rams are not marked on the hitch, at least the three I had werent, but if the window sticker says class IV hitch thats what it has. Its welded together as opposed to the bolted together add-on class III. The Ram towing guide also says 'anything over 5000lbs a WD hitch is recommended.' But like I said thats under the assumption that you have a minimum of 10% tongue weight on the trailer - which most tandem boat trailers do not.

    You dont see WD setups on 'trailer boat' setups with surge brakes, but you do with larger boat trailers with electric over hydraulic brake systems. Surge brake tongues do not function well and are not the best choice with a lot of tongue weight, some WD hitches like the Equal-i-zer will let the surge brakes work but since the front 'V' is more like a 'Y' on surge brake boat trailers they usually dont fit. I towed my 260DA with my old duramax 3/4 ton with a class IV hitch with no WD setup all over and had no problems, that was a 10,000lb setup, but the truck rear axle weight was nowhere near maxed out with the 700lbs of the tongue weight, 1000lbs it would have been. My enclosed car trailer loaded was 9000lbs and had 1100lbs on the tongue, for that I used a WD hitch setup of course. The class IV on the 2500 was marked 1400/12000lb max, but the towing guide said 750/7500 without WD.

    Find or rig up a tongue weight scale and see where you are at. Also hit up RV.net or a site with big trailer boats like continuouswave.com ot THT and read around. I understand the concern, especially if you bring your family along, and that is a great thing. Of course you can eliminate all worry by going 3/4 ton+ pickup but that would be overkill for a 6,000lb setup unless you are towing that weight long distances every day. I will warn you that the real answer lies between the internet guys that claim they tow 10K lbs daily with their stock 1/2 ton or the 'weight police' that will scare you into thinking you need a 1 ton dually to be 'safe' with your 6000lb boat. Like anything else, common sense and knowing why the ratings are what they are is your best tools.

    Good luck, and whatever you do buy a 2" ball and ball mount that are as HD as you can get (10K lb), dont know how many times I've seen people towing a 7000lb setup with a 6,000 lb rated ball and 5,000lb wal mart ball mount - thats unsafe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  8. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    I could not find a definition for the Class IV spec that includes weight carrying numbers. Do you have a reference for that?

    I'm assuming that is WD, not WC, right?

    I talked with a Ford salesman that seemed pretty knowledgeable about trailering, and his comments were along the same lines. He believes the 5,000 lb. limit that Ford has put on the F-150 is based on the rear suspension of the vehicle, not the hitch receiver hardware, even though the sticker is on the receiver.

    Good points. I agree, I do need to weigh the tongue.

    I currently use a Curt drawbar and ball rated at 7,500 lbs. and 750 lb. tongue weight. It's the first thing I bought after buying the boat.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  9. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    Its hard to find the exact spec, you will see class IV hitches rated for more but seldom less. I have seen some OE class IV rated at 1000lbs/10,000 but most are 1200/12000. WD system does not make the hitch able to carry more weight, it allows the hitch to distribute the weight to the front. Matter of fact they add 75lbs or so of tongue weight..


    Doesnt specify, all it says its 1200lb tongue weight max and 12,000lb GTW MAX. Its under the hitch on the tube plain as day.

    Here is what it says in the 2015 GM trailering guide:

    TRAILER TONGUE WEIGHT NOTES Trailer tongue weight
    should be 10% to 15% of total loaded trailer weight up to
    1,200 lbs. The addition of trailer tongue weight must not
    cause vehicle to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating
    (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR).

    Unlike other OE towing guides they dont recommend to use a WD hitch at 500/5000, but they do say not to exceed the rear RGAWR. So if you exceed the rear axle weight with 500lbs (or 600, or 700lbs) of tongue weight then you would need a WD setup not to exceed 1200lbs.

    This is from the owners manual:

    Vehicle Series Hitch Type Maximum Tongue Weight
    1500 Weight-Carrying 363 kg (800 lb)
    1500 Weight-Distributing 544 kg (1,200 lb)

    So draw you own conclusions, you can bet that Ford or Chrysler will not say that their trucks cant tow what a 1500 Chevy/GMC will :)

    The sticker is on an OE receiver put there by Ford. It usually says WD 'recomended' over 500/5000 in the manual, if the hitch is rated to pull 12,000 lbs then IMO as long as the axle weights and combined weight is not exceeded it can tow 12,000lbs.

    Like I said look at the max cargo on the sticker and make sure the truck has a towing package. I looked through the 2015 ford manual and they have a medium, heavy duty and max tow plus max payload packages which gets a little confusing. They dont mention the 500/5000 thing in the manual or 2015 trailering guide, not sure why it would say it on the hitch only.
     
  10. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    It's on page 4 of the F-150 Trailering Guide, bottom of the page - http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/15RV&TT_Ford_F150_r1_Jan12.pdf

    and page 28 of the RV and Trailering Towing Guide, table at the bottom of the page - http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/Ford_Linc_15RVTTgde_Sep30.pdf

    I don't know the exact differences in the tow packages, but the Max Package is only slightly more cost than the other, so I would get that to get maximum available.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  11. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    Sure does say that, I didnt look at page 4 :) I didnt see it in the 2015 Ford owners manual though, granted I just glanced through it.

    If thats what Ford says then I dont know what to tell you except dont buy a Ford. I had a new loaded '13 ecoboost F150 with max tow and I hated it, only kept it three months and bought another Ram. My biggest beef with the Ram was the low cargo capacity, 1200lbs on a loaded 4x4 crew cab laramie, Ram does not have a 'max' trailer package that increases the payload. Thats why I went GM this time around, 500lbs more cargo capacity - plus I was just looking for a change and they are discounting the '15 GM;s big time right now.

    Honestly I still think the Ram is a better all around truck than the GM unless you are hauling heavy, I wont buy another ecoboost. I just dropped the Silverado at the dealer today, two months and 2000 miles and the A/C died, guess its a known issue with a hose leaking and/or some kind of programming thing for the auto A/C. So nothing is perfect..

    My guess the 500/5000 thing on the ford is more lawyer driven than hitch capacity driven. The '13 F150 I had the hitch was actually the rear bumper, its kind of an odd setup, maybe the way its mounted limits the dead weight but a WD hitch doesnt make the hitch stronger - matter of fact it puts a lot of torsional stress on it. Nor does the WD setup make the hitch be able to pull more weight. Ram towing guide just says "Weight Distributing Hitch is recommended for trailers over 5,000 lb" and max tongue weight on their class IV is 1100lbs. The Ram owners manual says this:

    Trailer sway control and a weight distributing (load
    equalizing) hitch are recommended for heavier Tongue
    Weights (TW) and may be required depending on vehicle
    and trailer configuration/loading to comply with Gross
    Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) requirements. Weight Distribution
    hitched are recommended for loads in excess of
    5,000 lbs (2,268 kg).

    Like I said, I have towed an 8000lb total boat and trailer with my old '14 RAM and it was stable and nowhere near unsafe with 550lbs on the tongue. My open car trailer and car (6000lbs) also towed fine with no WD but I had 600 on the tongue and the Ram was starting to squat pretty bad. I didnt feel like transferring the WD setup off the enclosed so I just used it and never had an issue.

    Honestly these days if the sticker says 500/5000 max weight carrying and I was towing 6000lbs on a regular basis I would be a little nervous if something happened. But if you really like the Ford that wouldnt stop me from towing a 6000lb boat/trailer with it without WD. Rams dont have a sticker on the hitch but its the stoutest 'looking' hitch of the three, at least the three I had with class IV hitches didnt. Maybe they are on the '15s now with the new towing SAE spec.
     
  12. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    Why did you hate the F-150?

    Mike
     
  13. harrydnyc

    harrydnyc New Member

    3
    Aug 9, 2015
    United States
    2008 220 Sundeck
    260-hp MerCruiser 5.0L MPI Bravo III MCM
    Hello everyone,

    I have a 2008 Sundeck 220, and I have a question that I can't find the answer to anywhere (including the manuals that came with the boat). I purchased the boat this year, and I am a bit confused on the operation of the Sanipotte that came with the boat. Specifically, I don't know how or where I should fill it up with fresh water.

    The Sanipotte is installed in a small compartment on the port side of the boat, and is hooked up to a pump out opening. We have only used it once in an emergency, and I pumped it out this weekend with no issues. The problem is that when I read the instructions on how to fill the toilet up with water and waste treatment, it says I should flip the toilet on it's front, and then remove the cap to fill it up with water. However, the toilet is bolted down, so there is really no way that I can get a hose to the opening.

    Can someone please let me know if they have the same set up, how you replenish the fresh water in the system. Do I add the water through the pump out? How do you know how much water to put in it? My apologies for the dump questions, I am just completely confused. Thanks!
     
  14. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    Interior was cheap, doors rattled over bumps, infotainment was terrible and most of all the ecoboost. Not only only did it get bad mileage, but it tried to kill me and my family a few times. If you do some research there was an issue with the earlier 3.5 ecoboosts that would just die in the rain when you tried to accelerate. They blamed it on intercooler getting water in it bit IMO that was BS. I think it was a spark blowout issue myself, but two times pulling out in traffic and one time making a left turn into three lanes of oncoming 55+ mph traffic in the rain it just shut off, lots of fun..

    I can tolerate radio problems, paint issues, squeaks, rattles, poor fuel mileage etc but ANY brand new 50K truck should run in the rain. I was lucky and the Ford dealer also owned a Chrysler dealer and traded me out of the F150 and back into another Ram and I didnt lose a lot on the deal. I owned the F150 for less than three months and whatever I lost on it was well worth not to ever drive that thing again.

    By now they may have it all figured out, and the new F150 is pretty good looking inside and out, but they lost me with the ecoboost. The big seller for me on the ecoboost was the fuel mileage claims, but in reality if you drove the ecoboost like a normal person fuel mileage was no better than anything else in the class. If you drove like you had an egg between the gas pedal and your foot it got decent mileage but you had to really try, if you drive like that around here all you get is a lot of one-finger salutes :)

    I dont want to turn this into an ecboost bash, many people love them, you may as well. All trucks/cars have their common issues, the forums are loaded with them. After a little research you can figure out what the more common problems are and all you can do is pick something that with common issues you can live with.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  15. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc


    Water fill should be on top RH side, one side has the bellows you pump, the other has the fill for fresh water. You can either fill it (freshwater) with a hose in the boat or separate the top and bottom and fill the tank wherever you wish. Do not put deodorant into the top tank.

    The deodorant along with a little water goes into the lower tank, I know it says to pour it in with the toilet on its side and not in the bowl but with a pump out hose you cant do that. I just pour the deodorant into the bowl with the flush handle pulled and add a little water. You can add the deodorant through the pumpout and add a tiny bit of water too I guess. It all ends up in the same place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  16. harrydnyc

    harrydnyc New Member

    3
    Aug 9, 2015
    United States
    2008 220 Sundeck
    260-hp MerCruiser 5.0L MPI Bravo III MCM
    Thanks KP49. Thanks makes sense. A couple of follow-up questions just to be sure I got it right.

    1) When you fill up the freshwater tank though the top RH side, are you filling the bottom or the top?
    2) If you are filling the top, are you saying to fill the bottom by just sliding open the the flush handle, and putting the deodorant in there? You mentioned putting a "a little bit of water." I guess I thought you were putting a couple of gallons of water in there. Am I incorrect? The reason I thought that is because most of the water treatment bottles I have seen say to add X amount of treatment per X gallons.

    Thanks again for all your help!


     
  17. KP49

    KP49 New Member

    257
    Jul 8, 2012
    East Tennessee
    2015 220 Sundeck
    5.0 Merc
    The fresh water goes in the top half, the waste goes in the bottom where the pumpout hose attaches. the only connection between the top and bottom tank is when you open the flush handle and pump the water from the top to rinse it into the bottom tank.

    Your waste tank (bottom half) is only 2.5 gallons most likely, some are 5 gallon but most small boat porta potties are 2.5. The tank treatment/deodorant is usually used in much larger holding tanks, thats why they use 4oz for 15 gallons or whatever. That is the capacity of the tank you are using it in, not how much water to add. Chemical rands vary, but I think I put like one oz of chemical in the bottom tank with the quart or so (couple flushes) of water, whatever it divides down to for 2.5-5gallons of capacity.

    When you pump out just pump the tank out, put a couple gallons of water down the pumpout fitting to rinse (dont overfill) and pump it dry again and them add your flushwater to the op and you chemical to the bottom. Thats it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhELPhb--Lg

    Pretty much sums it up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  18. harrydnyc

    harrydnyc New Member

    3
    Aug 9, 2015
    United States
    2008 220 Sundeck
    260-hp MerCruiser 5.0L MPI Bravo III MCM
    Thanks for the help!

     
  19. mikedj

    mikedj Member

    62
    Jul 26, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    2005 220 Sundeck,
    Road King Aluminum Trailer
    5.0L MPI, Alpha One Generation II
    I very much appreciate your opinion. I, too, do not want to turn this thread into a truck thread, but I feel there have been some good comments that relate to pulling the 220 Sundeck. We had ours out on the lake again yesterday and we still love it!!

    For those interested, I was able to measure the tongue weight today and it came in about 310-315 lbs., which translates to about the 5% of trailer weight of 6,000 lbs. This was with about 3/4 tank of fuel and 3/4 tank of water. The fuel tank is pretty much right over the axles, so I'm thinking it shouldn't change the tongue weight appreciably whether full or empty.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  20. thegotoguyr

    thegotoguyr New Member

    201
    Mar 6, 2014
    Kelowna B.C.
    2003 220SD
    5.0 mpi Alpha 1
    I've been adding candure to the top tank because it says to add 15ml to x gallons of water. Someone said not to do that. Why? Am I destroying something?
    Edit:
    I read later: KP49 answered that.
    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015

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