210 Select BR thread - Questions and Answers

Discussion in 'Sport Boats' started by VTSeaRay, Jun 25, 2008.

  1. matthewmiller01

    matthewmiller01 New Member

    May 14, 2008
    Knoxville, TN
    2008 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.0 MPIs (DTS) w/ Bravo III Drives
    Kohler 5 ECD
    Well, it is with a little bit of sadness :smt089 that I must leave all of my sport boat fellows. The admiral and I traded up to a 2008 290 Sundancer :thumbsup:. I appreciate all of the information that you all have shared withme and I will continue to watch the thread and offer any advice I may have on this boat. It was a great boat and we have had no regrets with it. We just wanted to move up and be able to stay out overnight on the water.

    See you all on the water!!!
     
  2. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Question:

    I have put down deposit on 2009 SR 210 Select with 5L MPI/Bravo 3.

    It has twin 24P propellers on it - and on our test drive today i noticed:

    1. RPM goes all the way to 5050+ without hesitation. I could trim to about 50MPH (and maybe a bit more when I get the to know it) but it that normal?? - 5050RMP on 24P - with no problems (2 people + 60% full tanks)

    2. Slight problem : At certain trim settings - SmartCraft display/sensor says trim switch is defective. Moving the trim a little shows correct trim again. I would think it was a broken cable but what do you say?

    Boat Details: 210/B3/MPI5L - 2009 with 115 hours. Model Year 2009 - Build Year 2009. Still about 1 month of warranty left. Comes with fore/aft covers/bimini top. Loaded on original galv. trailer.

    Previous owner scratched it a lot ... (first boat) but I think I can polish most of it away. But got it for a fair price I think.

    I'm in Abu Dhabi - United Arab Emirates :) where we have a 9 month boating season....

    Previous boat: Omega 42 sailing yacht. Last fuel guzzler - Bayliner 2455 Ciera Sunbridge with OMC "joykiller" engine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  3. matthewmiller01

    matthewmiller01 New Member

    May 14, 2008
    Knoxville, TN
    2008 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.0 MPIs (DTS) w/ Bravo III Drives
    Kohler 5 ECD
    1. I don't think I ever saw my RPMs that high. It sounds suspicious. What is the position of the drive when the RPM is reaching this value? Up? Down? In the middle?

    2. This sounds like it could be a loose/broken cable or a bad sender. I'd get it in before the warranty runs out. Make them find and fix it.
     
  4. avguy

    avguy New Member

    715
    Dec 19, 2006
    East TN
    '05 240 Sundeck
    350 Mag
    Matt......congrats! If you decide to drag that thing to Norris we"ll be at point 19!
     
  5. matthewmiller01

    matthewmiller01 New Member

    May 14, 2008
    Knoxville, TN
    2008 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.0 MPIs (DTS) w/ Bravo III Drives
    Kohler 5 ECD

    We are deciding where to keep it right now. It is between Stardust Marina and Concord Marina (in Knoxville). I can't drag it anywhere... I don't have anything that could pull it, even if I did have a trailer. We would always be around Loyston Point when we brought the old boat up there. We'll see! :huh:
     
  6. orvel

    orvel New Member

    15
    Nov 24, 2007
    Allentown, PA
    2007 210 Select
    5.0L 260 HP Mercruiser w/Alpha I Gen II Drive
    Matthew great to hear that you moved up to a cruiser. You know I have the same 210 select you had (even the same color!) and I'm contemplating trading up to a small cruiser, (maybe a 240-250 Sundancer). I only have 60 hrs on my boat and it's in mint condition. Any idea of how much I can expect to get on trade in?
     
  7. matthewmiller01

    matthewmiller01 New Member

    May 14, 2008
    Knoxville, TN
    2008 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.0 MPIs (DTS) w/ Bravo III Drives
    Kohler 5 ECD

    PM sent.
     
  8. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Trim sender parts ordered.

    Regarding RPM - Drive position between 4-6 deg. But no warnings from SmartCraft. Temperatures within range. I have not got a tow hook - so waiting for that plus security approval before it can go in the water again (you need police security approval to go boating in the UAE :) - but hopefully within a week or so should I be able to take it out.
     
  9. matthewmiller01

    matthewmiller01 New Member

    May 14, 2008
    Knoxville, TN
    2008 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.0 MPIs (DTS) w/ Bravo III Drives
    Kohler 5 ECD

    If you are talking about the Smartcraft position, if I remember correctly, the drive goes up to 10. Above that (I think to 25) is getting into trailer position. If that is true, that means your drive is about 1/2 way up. To me, it sounds like your prop is cavitating. You may or may not get Smartcraft alarms when this occurs due to over-revving. Do you start out with your drive all the way down? This is how I was taught to start out. After you are on plane, you should raise your drive in increments to get the best drive angle (quietest ride and highest speed). I would usually end up (when on plane and drive trimmed properly) at a very little bit above 1/2 way-but again, I always came out of the hole with the drive fully lowered. When you get out on the water again, start out with the drive full down and see what kind of indications you get and let us know if it happens again. (As a reference, from a dead stop with drive fully lowered, I could immediately go full-throttle and I would NOT cavitate. I would only cavitate when I trimmed up too much.)

    Let us know more information and we'll try to figure it all out. :thumbsup:

    Edit: I just looked at your information. I had an Alpha I drive, not a Bravo III. The basics of my post still apply, but certain things may be different. I don't know (yet). ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  10. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    I checked a few of the engine test briefs on Merc website - and a few of them had 5050 as max RPM. There is not one done on Sea Ray 210 with Bravo III though. (Look at the dual engine with 5L 260hp B3) - the singles usually flattened out at 4850-4950 as max rpm.

    So boat is now mine - and just waiting for "damn" security check before I can go on the water. Temporary land based berth secured until the "private" berth opens up - which is about 10 feet from my balcony :)

    Now off to polish off all the scratches the local kid put on it before getting tired of it.

    But I do think I got a good deal - 2009 / built 2009 - with about 1 1/2 month of warranty left - for $31.000,- which is very cheap for UAE where boats usually are 30-50% more expensive than the US due to transport cost. The above included the galvanized trailer. Transport cost from US is between $5000-$7500 pr. boat.

    So i'll keep you posten on how "Sea Ray 210 Select 2009 - now called 'Agnes'" will perform once it is back in the right element.

    /Kasper
     
  11. scallicutt

    scallicutt New Member

    2
    Mar 30, 2011
    knoxville
    220 Select
    350 MAG MPI Alpha drive
    Have a 220 Select 350 Mag Alpha and am looking for some advice on a 4 blade prop. Currently have a Vengance 3 blade 19P with a somewhat disappointing holeshot. Prop selector suggests Vensura 19P or Rev 4 17P. Any suggestions?:smt100
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  12. VTSeaRay

    VTSeaRay Active Member

    Feb 19, 2008
    Northern Vermont / SW FL
    2007 210 Select w/5.0L 260HP MPI Mercruiser Alpha 1
    8 cyl 5.0 Merc mpi, w/alpha 1 with 19" prop, with the speedo hole on the leading edge just above it
    With the price of gas close to $4/gal these days, I was wondering if anyone had performed any kind of fuel usage analysis (or know where there's one online to read - I haven't found one yet) for Optimum Fuel use with the various motors for the 210 Select? (I found the Boattest mag for the 210 Fission with the 350 Bravo 3, but I have a 5L MPI with the Alpha One, so I would assume they would be different. (for the 350 B3 combo, they recommend 3,000 RPMs for Optimum fuel usage based on their tests for the best range (122 miles on a 40 gal tank))

    I usually like to cruise around 3800 RPMs, but I was using 11.8 gph this weekend at that RPM @35mph.

    -VtSeaRay
     
  13. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Most of the engines have their sweet spot between 2800-3500 rpm in "range pr. gallon"

    If you have SmartCraft instruments - get the MercMonitor with EcoScreen. That is about $500,- and can help you optimize your fuel consumption. (Merc claims 10-20%). If it is 10% it is 4 gallon pr. tank - so $16 saved pr. full tank.

    Trimtabs can save quite a bit of fuel as well - and so does a clean hull.

    My normal cruise speed is about 20kts (23 mph) @ 2500 RPM @23 lph (6 gph) on a 5L 260HP MPI / Bravo III.

    That means I get around 6.3 hours and 145 miles from 145L usable tank.
    If you have 145 liters - then you get about 3.2 hours with your settings so about 110 miles. (I do not yet have trim tabs - still trying to decide between Bennett or SmartTabs)

    The problem is once you pass the sweet spot - the engine starts drinking fuel very quick. I think if you throttle back to 3300 you will do about 30mph but you would save a lot in fuel.

    /Kasper
     
  14. VTSeaRay

    VTSeaRay Active Member

    Feb 19, 2008
    Northern Vermont / SW FL
    2007 210 Select w/5.0L 260HP MPI Mercruiser Alpha 1
    8 cyl 5.0 Merc mpi, w/alpha 1 with 19" prop, with the speedo hole on the leading edge just above it
    I'm going to have to play with it and find that sweet spot for when I cruise. I think I can find it if I use the fuel usage Smartcraft info, I just need to go thru the different rpm's and do some calc's. I was just wondering if someone else had already done it with this combo.

    My hull's clean, I trailer it, and it sits in my garage when not in use. I was under it a few weeks ago waxing the entire bottom(and topside too). I don't have trim tabs, and I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense to get the Mercmonitor, since I do pull wakeboarders/skiers/tubers behind this, so when I'm doing that, this all gets thrown out the window.

    -VtSeaRay
     
  15. kaz911

    kaz911 Active Member

    Jan 24, 2011
    In Transit -> London
    Boatless
    Boatless
    if you do a lot of Wakeboarding - I think Bennett trim tabs would be the way to go - since you can adjust wake a lot with tabs. Plus you can get plane speed down to about 14-16 miles i would estimate - some skiers like slower speed... And for pure cruising you would get better fuel economy.

    But yes - play around with the SmartCraft fuel flow/RPM and Engine Trim.

    Question: Did you bottom wax give any WOT speed/RPM difference?

    /Kasper
     
  16. VTSeaRay

    VTSeaRay Active Member

    Feb 19, 2008
    Northern Vermont / SW FL
    2007 210 Select w/5.0L 260HP MPI Mercruiser Alpha 1
    8 cyl 5.0 Merc mpi, w/alpha 1 with 19" prop, with the speedo hole on the leading edge just above it
    re: Did you bottom wax give any WOT speed/RPM difference? - Hard to say, since I wax it at the beginning of every season. (and it's not really wax, I use Zaino which is a polymer that keeps the gelcoat in brand new condition.)

    -VtSeaRay
     
  17. FatPants

    FatPants New Member

    17
    Sep 12, 2009
    none
    none
    none
    Chaps

    I have 2007 with 5L MPI and 2.2 gear ratio B3. I have the factory tower (wind resistance). Standard prop is 24P which was good and gave about 3.7 MPG optimum cruise. I wanted lower end so just put on a new 22.5P prop set with 4 blade front and 3 blade rear. Love it! 0-45 MPH the boat is like a rocket ship. With 1/2 gas and 1 PAX it goes 0-30 MPH in like 5 seconds (see below).

    In case you are wondering - with the 22.5P I get max rpm (5000) before WOT. I estimate WOT would see 5300 (5000 being max). The 24P was the right prop for overall performance (actually 23.8 according to my calcs) but I love the 22.5.

    Another nice No. to know is min slip (which properly pitched and trimmed is pretty much dependent on hull design). I got approx 7% with the 3/3 blade 24P and same 7% with 22.5P 4/3 blade.
    I believe the 4/3 blade gives me more lift so I hold plane at lower speed. I do have to get used to the fact that with lower pitch I have to really nail it get on plane. With the 24P half throttle would see the boat plane in a reasonable time (say 3-4 seconds). With the 22.5 i need more RPMs to get me out of the hole = more throttle, but the with lower gearing the boat generates the RPM much faster in response to throttle action. Previously throttle up slowly and back slowly as reach plane. Now must throttle up faster and back faster...of course one question/answer here is simply that I maybe I now need more RPMs for the same speed (an extra 300ish rpm) and the extra lift from the 4 blade front prop has not lowered my on plane speed by a corresponding amount (it has lowered plane holding speed by a couple of MPH)

    So to fuel economy...obviously with new prop my cruise RPMs are up (or MPH down depending on whether your an optimist or pessimist) so have been looking at fuel economy. With the 24P i get 3.7 MPG at cruise. With the 22.5P i get 3.57 MPG pretty anywhere between 3000-3500 RPM when properly trimmed. I lost on average 3 MPH for equivalent 24P RPM.

    BUT.. cruise MPG is not too indicative as it is a fraction of my boating.......over the last three days boating with the 22.5P prop I did 126 miles on 40gal of gas = approx 3.15 MPG.

    Last point..I once read a boattest.com comparison of the 5L and 350 MPIs. They tested 30 (if i recall correctly) similar boats with 5L and 350s. They found that for their tests the drive (alpha or bravo) did not make a notable difference. The notable "comparisons" were that both engines had the same best fuel economy (3.7ish MPG) at 3000 rpm...and on average the 5L propelled its boats from 0-30 MPH in 8.8 second as opposed to 6.8 and had a top speed of 49 MPH as opposed to 51 MPH...so there you go

    M
     
  18. VTSeaRay

    VTSeaRay Active Member

    Feb 19, 2008
    Northern Vermont / SW FL
    2007 210 Select w/5.0L 260HP MPI Mercruiser Alpha 1
    8 cyl 5.0 Merc mpi, w/alpha 1 with 19" prop, with the speedo hole on the leading edge just above it
    Thanks, I looked for a test like that on boattest, but couldn't find it. Great info! I've actually hit 51 MPH (GPS) with my boat @WOT, but either way, I wouldn't go like that for very long @WOT, and at that rate, the gas consumption is very high for only a little bit more speed.

    -VtSeaRay
     
  19. FatPants

    FatPants New Member

    17
    Sep 12, 2009
    none
    none
    none
    From what I have read all things being equal on boats our size an alpha with give you a few more MPH than a B3. It takes less HP I guess and our boats don't need or cannot use the extra thrust of the B3. But the B3 gives better handling around the dock....although if you need the handling of a B3 on a 20 foot boat you should stick to a row-boat!
     
  20. winterquist

    winterquist New Member

    1
    Feb 22, 2010
    Ohio
    210 Select, 2009
    5.0 Mercruiser w Alpha
    Greatings Fellow 210 Select owners! I have a 2009 210 Select, 5.0 mp1, Alpha drive, 1.47 ratio with a 19P Vengeance prop. this is my second summer with the boat, prior to that i owned a fourwinns Horizion 200 for 10 years. First off, I LOVE the new ride, and i'm very pleased with the change. My only issue is that I've been disappointed with the hole shot ( for skiing) and the lack of throttle response when pulling tubers. This boat is much heavier than my Fourwinns, which i'm sure is a contributer. WOT with the 19p is 4600 at 46-48mph. i was able to test a 17P Vengeance and the hole shots was much much improved, however i gave up a lot of top end. WOT was now 5000rpm at 40mph. I would really love to find something in the middle. I know i'm going to give up top end speed, which doesn't bother me, but i am assuming that also will me a 'thirstier' boat for crusing. Things I've considered, 1) having multiple props (ie. swapping the 17 and 19 back and forth depending on the need), 2) Smart tabs: I know they would improve hole shot, but what about low speed 'bite' for tubing?, 3) High Five's and 4 blade props indicate that they will help low end, but with so may opinions it's hard to know what the right call is. Anyway, Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
     

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