1980 Sea Ray 245 Sundancer

cmount1 said:
My '76 Amber Jack has a Ford Merc and it's black. It doesn't appear to have been re-painted, though my '79 EC Chrylser motors were originally blue.
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Mercruiser painted all their gear Phantom Black whether the engines are ford, GM or ???? FoMoCo engine colors in their cars were blue and Chevys were red. Crusader pained their engines blue regardless of the origin of the engine. The engine in that boat looks like it may have been a Crusader.

My point is, if it is original, as that seller says it is, why is it not black?

Rittles, what I am trying to say is be prepared for your boat to cost you a lot more than you paid for it and don't plan on using it much other than to work on. I really hope I'm wrong for your sake. Boating is a wonderful past time and I will be doing it until I am physically unable. But this is most likely not going to be a pleasurable experience for you. I don't want it to turn you off from boating.

I truly wish you the best of luck with this project and only ask that you do not cut corners to save a dollar here or there. Do not use automotive parts for your boat and consider safety first at all times. Remember that you are responsible for everyone that ever rides in your vessel and you would never be able to forgive yourself if someone was injured or worse because you cut a corner to save a couple of bucks.


Remember, there is never time, or money, to do it right but always time, and money, to do it over.
 
Might be a little late jumping in; I have an '81 245. Love this boat. Super clean, and solid upholstery. It handles great in the river, and is a decent performer. Mine's nice and solid. When I blew my engine last season (long story), the insurance company sent a surveyor out to take a look. While he was there he checked for moisture, etc., as a favor and said it was in excellent shape. (Engine is pretty much done and ready to go back in). While I just read all the posts pretty quickly, it sounds like you got a project on your hands. Everybody here is nothing but helpful... Just take your time and work through it.
 
No pictures yet and not much news. I was sick this past weekend and wasn't able to get anything done. I did order some parts though. Nothing exciting, just the thermostat and housing.

NorCal Boater - I only stated what the previous owner said, not that I believed him. I asked here because this is my first power boat. I do appreciate all the info as you and others have given. I fully expected this boat to cost me more than I paid. I just wanted a solid starting point, which I feel that this boat is.


It was mentioned that it could have an automotive block vs a marine block, is there any way to tell?
 
Rittles, do a search (even a google search will do) on Marine vs Car Engines. A marine engine will have brass or bronze freeze-plugs, a car engine will not. Cam, heads, etc., are different as well. Not knowing whether or not it's a Merc/Crusader/Ford/Whatever puts you at a disadvantage right off. In any event, you could always scrape the paint off the front freeze plugs, and see if a magnet will stick. If it does...
 
I actually did google it earlier today. What I found was that the block is basically the same, except for the freeze plugs, head gasket, and cam. That's it. The biggest difference is with the fuel system, electrical system, and the cooling system. I do know that the engine is a Chevy 350, it is just painted blue. Everything I've seen on the engine does look like it is made for marine use (alternator, carburetor, etc.) but I will definitely double check everything. I'm guessing it was probably repowered with a new block at some point and used the original accessories.

I will take some pictures soon so everyone can get a better look at everything. :)
 
Now that THAT is settled, let's do a compression check on the engine. This is the best place to start, before you go any further. Any idea how long that engine has sat idle? Pull all the plugs and put a breaker bar on the crank bolt (9/16" half inch drive deep socket) and gently try and turn the engine. Don't squirt any oil into the cylinders, or you'll get a false reading.

It should take very little effort. If all is ok, hook up a battery and crank her around. You ain't gonna hurt anything. If all is still ok, check the compression in each cylinder. Generally speaking, readings for each cylinder should be 10%-15% of each other. I think factory spec on a 350 Merc were 150 or 155. If the engine has that low of hours on it, they should be close to that. Mine were 140 and up. Don't forget to pull the coil wire and ground it to the block, or remove it completely. Seach the maintenance forum for exact procedure.

One other thing I just thought of: If the engine was painted, the decal on the valve cover showing the Merc Serial Number is undoubtedly gone, but there is another down by the starter. It's a small plate that's riveted to the side of the engine and is kind of difficult to see unless you stand on your head.
 
Rick K said:
Now that THAT is settled, let's do a compression check on the engine. This is the best place to start, before you go any further. Any idea how long that engine has sat idle? Pull all the plugs and put a breaker bar on the crank bolt (9/16" half inch drive deep socket) and gently try and turn the engine. Don't squirt any oil into the cylinders, or you'll get a false reading.

It should take very little effort. If all is ok, hook up a battery and crank her around. You ain't gonna hurt anything. If all is still ok, check the compression in each cylinder. Generally speaking, readings for each cylinder should be 10%-15% of each other. I think factory spec on a 350 Merc were 150 or 155. If the engine has that low of hours on it, they should be close to that. Mine were 140 and up. Don't forget to pull the coil wire and ground it to the block, or remove it completely. Seach the maintenance forum for exact procedure.

One other thing I just thought of: If the engine was painted, the decal on the valve cover showing the Merc Serial Number is undoubtedly gone, but there is another down by the starter. It's a small plate that's riveted to the side of the engine and is kind of difficult to see unless you stand on your head.
Click to expand...
don't remove it completely...ground it good or potential BOOM in the bilge
 
Rick K said:
Now that THAT is settled, let's do a compression check on the engine. This is the best place to start, before you go any further. Any idea how long that engine has sat idle? Pull all the plugs and put a breaker bar on the crank bolt (9/16" half inch drive deep socket) and gently try and turn the engine. Don't squirt any oil into the cylinders, or you'll get a false reading.

It should take very little effort. If all is ok, hook up a battery and crank her around. You ain't gonna hurt anything. If all is still ok, check the compression in each cylinder. Generally speaking, readings for each cylinder should be 10%-15% of each other. I think factory spec on a 350 Merc were 150 or 155. If the engine has that low of hours on it, they should be close to that. Mine were 140 and up. Don't forget to pull the coil wire and ground it to the block, or remove it completely. Seach the maintenance forum for exact procedure.

One other thing I just thought of: If the engine was painted, the decal on the valve cover showing the Merc Serial Number is undoubtedly gone, but there is another down by the starter. It's a small plate that's riveted to the side of the engine and is kind of difficult to see unless you stand on your head.
Click to expand...

The previous owner said it was sitting for about 2 years. Before I bought the boat, I made sure that the engine turned over. The battery was dead so we used jumper cables to my truck and it turned over pretty easy. Hopefully I will get some time this weekend to get started on my project. :)
 
Rittles,
Congrats and welcome to the club, CSR & The hole in the water, that is! Since you've already made your purchase I will spare you the story of our Seabird project boat that was too good to pass up. Suffice it to say that I also didn't know much about I/O engine set-ups and tried to nickle and dime repairs on a boat that was on blocks for years. After a year of work and countless times stalling out and either getting towed or beaching her, for one night she ran like a champ. Then we blew an exhaust hose. We brought her back to the slip and went out for the night on the Larson with the outboard. Got home as the sun came up and went to bed. Got the call a couple hours later that the Seabird sank in the slip.
Moral of the story- just because you got the boat cheap (or especially because) don't expect to nickle and dime it back to servicability. Take your time, and money, and do each thing right. Jason had good advice on the bellows replacement and let me add exhaust manifolds and risers. These seem to be the single most cause of catastrophic engine failure out there. I'm only sharing this info because you stated that you are lacking knowledge in this area, not as a slight against your mechanical abilities. I feel that by the time this project is complete, you may have more knowledge to share with others than you will have received. I wish you the best of luck! it truly is a labor of love!! Also continue to utilize this forum. There is alot of great knowledge here, and a couple of wisea$$es, but it will be a great help along the way.
 
Thanks again everyone for the welcome & advice. I have the bellow and gimbal bearing replacement on my list. I've also looked at the riser and manifold replacement and noticed that the "log style" are much more expensive than the "center style". I found that there are kits to convert to the "center style" which is supposed to giver better performance/efficiency. The conversion kits seem to be less money than just replacing the old style, so it seems like a no brainer, but are there any snags to this conversion? You can see the kit here: http://www.mooreperformance.info/MercruiserV8conversionkit.html

I plan on getting the engine running before I start doing any other work or replacement though. No point in replacing parts on a bad engine. :grin:
 
Rittles said:
Thanks again everyone for the welcome & advice. I have the bellow and gimbal bearing replacement on my list. I've also looked at the riser and manifold replacement and noticed that the "log style" are much more expensive than the "center style". I found that there are kits to convert to the "center style" which is supposed to giver better performance/efficiency. The conversion kits seem to be less money than just replacing the old style, so it seems like a no brainer, but are there any snags to this conversion? You can see the kit here: http://www.mooreperformance.info/MercruiserV8conversionkit.html

I plan on getting the engine running before I start doing any other work or replacement though. No point in replacing parts on a bad engine. :grin:
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Me likey! That's a nice setup. If I had to replace my manifolds, I would definately look into those.
 
tdschafer said:
Rittles, Jason had good advice on the bellows replacement and let me add exhaust manifolds and risers. These seem to be the single most cause of catastrophic engine failure out there.
Click to expand...

Which brings to mind a good question: How DO you know if your manifolds are bad, or going bad? I assume running warm/hot, etc. Mine were always around 125-140 degrees, according to my laser temp thermometer thing.
 
Rick K said:
Which brings to mind a good question: How DO you know if your manifolds are bad, or going bad? I assume running warm/hot, etc. Mine were always around 125-140 degrees, according to my laser temp thermometer thing.
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From my google research, running hot is one symptom. Another is looking for rust/water stains around where the gaskets are, which could mean gasket failure and water is leaking where it is not supposed to be.
 
Nah, didn't have one spec of rust anywhere on anything when I had my engine torn down. I just posed the question, beacuse it's good knowledge to have. And I ain't got THAT much knowledge!!!
 
Chevy engines were only red until about the mid 70s. Late 70s and into the 80s they were blue like the one in your boat. Later than that they were black. Having said that, if the engine was rebuilt it could have been painted any colour the builder wanted. The way I see it, it is one of two engines.

1. The original Mercruiser 228 or 260, rebuilt and painted Chevy blue.

or

2. A swapped in car motor from the late 70's or 80's.

Nik
 
niks325i said:
Chevy engines were only red until about the mid 70s. Late 70s and into the 80s they were blue like the one in your boat. Later than that they were black. Having said that, if the engine was rebuilt it could have been painted any colour the builder wanted. The way I see it, it is one of two engines.

1. The original Mercruiser 228 or 260, rebuilt and painted Chevy blue.

or

2. A swapped in car motor from the late 70's or 80's.

Nik
Click to expand...
never seen a blue chevy motor in my life
pontiac and olds (and olds was a greenish blue) but never a chevy
 
I was able to get some pictures this weekend. I haven't even gotten a chance to clean it up at all so it still looks a little rough. I was planning on getting it cleaned up this weekend and maybe run a compression check, but we found out my wife is pregnant with our second child so I didn't get much time for the boat.

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