Why are SR's so much higher priced than Bayliners?

aerobat77 said:
if you seriously crack the hull on a reef you - whatever brand of boat you run - have good chances to finally sink. the enclosed areas in a sea ray design might help to isolate the flooding and stay afloat until help arrives , but i think its pure theory you could stop the 'leak' on your 38 if you rip the hull midships on a reef - whatever access you have .

i think every searay ( and other brands ) bigger than a 20ft bowrider is basicly "sinkable" .
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Agreed, but if I had access to the hull I'd be giving it a fair old crack to stem the inflow of water with pillow, doona, cushion and back and prop that with some ply to initially buy some time to think, or at least get the inflatable launched. If you do a google you'll find testing has been done as to what generally works and what doesn't work - or at least have a fighting chance. Some even carry an axe on board to chop the out the floor to get to the hull. The hole doesn't have to be big either, a 5cm - 8cm hole would probably sink a 38 in about 15 - 20 mins, if that.

My brother was a commercial fisherman for 35 years and there's been a number of stories where boats have hit reefs when crayfishing and have been saved. The first thing they all did was attempt to stem the inflow so they could keep the motors running.

Henry Boyd said:
That's a pretty accurate statement. It all comes down to making water go out of the boat faster than it comes in. No recreational boat is equipped with pumps to deal with a major hull breech.

Henry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Or stemming the inflow of water.

Here's a boat I saw on a reef at Rottnest Island the day I arrived there back in February - remarkably there was no hull damage and the boat was pulled off the reef at high tide.

Anyway I've probably derailed the thread.
 

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So how do Carver prices compare to Bayliner prices? Do Carvers that are floating cost more than Bayliners when grounded like that? Where does Carver buy their cleats?
 
juggernaut1 said:
Anyway I've probably derailed the thread.
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no , you didnt , speculating about the outcome of cracking the hull is much more "interesting" than a bayliner vs searay fight.

i must say seeing my bilge filling with water faster than my pumps can deal with it is the worst case scenario i can imagine - together with a major fire on board.

that for sure would be a point to forget the boat and look for my girlfriend und my health and sort the rest out with the insurance.

i, m panick about flooding , on my last boat i blew a waterhose on the engine while underway and until i realized it the running engine filled the engine compartment in such amounts of water that i had pure horror in my eyes when i opened the engine hatch and saw the amounts of water inside there. luckily after shutting the engine the flooding stopped and i could pump out . but i can tell you first hand the bilge pump is unable to cope with the raw water pump of the running engine flooding the bilge via a blown hose. and while underway you might not realize immediately.
 
Well, you just confirmed my point..............

Our previous disagreements aside, (and I don't even remember what it was about now, only that I was right and you weren't.....!) perhaps you guys with moderator privileges should take a harder look at closing threads that sink to the level of name calling. Don't look at it as censorship because it isn't as long as the members involved can start a new thread. I think it is more like a forced time-out. If the children can't play well together then perhaps they will give the discussion a second thought if they have to go to the trouble to start a new thread to continue flogging the dead horse.
 
Maybe we could just stop feeding the trolls!

It was obvious El Capitan was asking a question that could not be answered. Post #10 was where he showed his true colors yet there were another 90+ posts which followed. Why bother? In post #94 PlayDate refrenced the psychology of the Internet troll. I'd like to know the psychology behind those who feel compelled to feed the troll.
 
Boater420 said:
Maybe we could just stop feeding the trolls!

It was obvious El Capitan was asking a question that could not be answered. Post #10 was where he showed his true colors yet there were another 90+ posts which followed. Why bother? In post #94 PlayDate refrenced the psychology of the Internet troll. I'd like to know the psychology behind those who feel compelled to feed the troll.
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The answer can be found in post #110.
 
Hello All, I came late to the party, cooked up some popcorn and digested this thread. I will leave my comments on the "bantering" alone. However, I think I can actually add to the rest of the difference question. The parts, engineering, hull thickness etc. do have cost and have been beat to death here. My company builds spline rolling machines that are in the $100,000 to $700,000 range and you know what, our biggest cost over all of the parts, etc., is the labor! It takes a lot of labor to get the fit, finish, etc. It takes labor to engineer a fine product. It takes more labor to put another layer of chop in the hull. It takes more labor to build a fine boat. I would bet that if you could talk to SR accounting you would find a much higher labor content on the SR vs. BL all tolled. More labor=more cost.

So when a boat gets older you can tell which one has had the widget just screwed in place vs being fit in place. The labor in a fine boat comes through as they get older and then shines with the resale value. So to the OP, I think that if you are looking for just one point to justify this cost difference it would be in the labor costs. Good luck with the Bayliner.

My 2 cents, carry on.
 
"I have to laugh at the Bayliner verses Sea Ray." I hear the Same conversation with Tiara owners. They would not own a low quality boat such as a Sea Ray. The Material build quality, fit, finish, resale, and even the ride. It's
not as good as the Tiara. Then the comments about Sea Ray verses Viking. I have heard Viking owners laugh and call Sea Rays, Sea Rots. So if one one really wants to stand out it looks like around 3 to 7 million to buy a Viking. A good friend just had his second 72 foot Viking built, the first one was only 3 years old and he sold it for more then it was built for.
I don't get into these arguments since there is always someone bigger and better.
 
DougLas said:
"I have to laugh at the Bayliner verses Sea Ray." I hear the Same conversation with Tiara owners. They would not own a low quality boat such as a Sea Ray. The Material build quality, fit, finish, resale, and even the ride. It's
not as good as the Tiara. Then the comments about Sea Ray verses Viking. I have heard Viking owners laugh and call Sea Rays, Sea Rots. So if one one really wants to stand out it looks like around 3 to 7 million to buy a Viking. A good friend just had his second 72 foot Viking built, the first one was only 3 years old and he sold it for more then it was built for.
I don't get into these arguments since there is always someone bigger and better.
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Oh oh, buzz kill.....:smt043
 
fwebster said:
You are wasting your time trying to find things Pascoe finds wrong with Sea Ray boats. His favorites are bluewater builders like Hattaras, Hinkley, Viking, etc. and feels Sea Ray is inferior…..and all but the L-class probably is inferior to the brands listed.

You were upset that we didn't give you specifics on your question, although I did tell you why twice, so now it is my turn: How many Sea Ray hulls have been reported because "something is breaking apart". If you haven't figured it out, Pascoe is known for huge generalizations with very little or no data to back them up. He is a surveyor paid to examine one boat, yet he generalizes about everything Sea Ray has built, is building or plans to build.
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One thing to add, A quick look around Pascoe's site reveals he likes selling books. How better to sell than to get free advertising in threads like this with incendiary opinions? Thus Pascoe is just employing the marketing strategy of create controversy to be thought of as relevant...

MM
 
El Capitan said:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/SeaRay27.htm

"...We've never cared much for the way Sea Ray builds their hulls because they basically box in their stringers - making a shelf between the outboard stringer and the chine - and generally close off the rest of the interior so that you can't see what's going on with the internal hull. Thus, if something is breaking apart, you're not likely to see it. In this instance, we found some light stress cracking on the port side bottom amidships along the..."
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Same website....

http://www.docksidereports.com/boat...ncer.htm?_ga=1.99279646.1227421787.1466529058

"There has been some improvement in the hull-to-deck joint where we did see a wooden backing behind the point where the deck is simply screwed to the hull. Unlike a Bayliner 2655, at least the deck is not riveted on with flower petal rivets!"

"The internal fit and finish of the cabin is the usual glued on fabrics in most places. It's not quite as flimsy as you'll find in a Bayliner, but things are still stapled together. You'll find niceties such as stainless steel port holes and a molded galley unit, whereas in the Bayliner it's a flimsy wooden structure that threatens to self-destruct. And usually does."

This is his review of a '95 sundancer. The guy clearly does not care for SeaRay boats, but very clearly uses Bayliner as the bottom rung for comparison.

My last boat was a Baja.... the bargain basement of go fast boats. It was certainly of a lower quality build than Formulas etc. In fact I had a stringer rot, sag and cause my engine coupler to go. And the cause was manufacturing where water drain holes run through the stringers raw wood. Just dumb. But I rebuilt that stringer and put it back together and continued running it. In fact I saw the guy who bought it from me a few weekends ago and its running great and he loves it. The best part about that boat was.... I could afford it. I had that boat 5 years and I loved it. I'd buy another one at the right price.

Anyway, it's ok to buy the cheap product as long as you understand that it is cheap and are aware of what that means. You don't have to be upset and troll the internet over it.
 
MonacoMike said:
One thing to add, A quick look around Pascoe's site reveals he likes selling books. How better to sell than to get free advertising in threads like this with incendiary opinions? Thus Pascoe is just employing the marketing strategy of create controversy to be thought of as relevant...

MM
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A very good point, Mike.

Actually, his printed material is all Pascoe has to sell these days. He retired from surveying about 5 years ago.

My problems with his criticism of Sea Ray boats is primarily that he has continued to criticize the entire brand thru about 2013 when his frame of reference is limited to conclusions drawn on boats he surveyed up to about 1996. The other issue with his criticism is that he looks at the brand in total when many of his surveys were for sport boats and sport cruisers built in different factories using different construction methods than were used in the sport yacht and yacht factories, yet he criticizes the entire product line.
 
Here is a decent comparison of the boats you hightlighted:

1995 Sea Ray 220 Bow Rider - OAL - 22' Beam - 8' 6" Weight - 3700 - 4000#
2005 Bayliner 225 Bow Rider - OAL - 22' Beam - 8' 6" Weight - 3368#

Doesn't seem like much but it's an increase of 10-19% in weight between the Bayliner and the Sea Ray. I'm positive the upgraded hardware alone doesn't account for the 332 - 632# difference.
 
Maybe its the heavy cleats :)

I was going to mention the whole Labour hours thing but Gary Hill beat me to it a few posts back. (Glad I read the whole thread first). Production / Design labour costs as well as extra material and therefore weight are where the major differences are in my opinion. I am in the UK where we need a boat that can cope with varying sea conditions (no large flat water lakes here...that we can go faster than 10 knots on at least) and our SR does seem to fit the bill well on that side of things. A friend of mine had a Binliner....about 28 feet I would say...and in the marina with his wife sat with a beer it was fine......they took me out on it once to the Isle of Wight....only a few miles across from the mainland.....terrible trip.....threw us around all over the place...I managed not to comment too much....back in the marina I was having a look round downstairs and someone walked past the boat on the pontoon...I didnt see them through the window...I could see the movement through the hull...
 
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