Why are SR's so much higher priced than Bayliners?

[roger2015]

sounds like you have made up your mind and we will not change it.....spend some time on both boats....if that doesn't convince you that SR is superior then go get yourself a Bayliner and have fun.....

look at boats that are 10 - 20 years old....you'll find many older SR's still in good shape but I bet not so many BL's in comparable condition...

cliff

cliff I would have to agree here, last year I started looking for a boat after many months I found her....my Searay, as in 28 yr old Searay that is in immaculate condition I may add, a few mechanical things to fix but that's it and in far better shape than boats 10-15 yrs newer....... and I have always said you get what you pay for

 

[El Capitan]

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/SeaRay27.htm

"...We've never cared much for the way Sea Ray builds their hulls because they basically box in their stringers - making a shelf between the outboard stringer and the chine - and generally close off the rest of the interior so that you can't see what's going on with the internal hull. Thus, if something is breaking apart, you're not likely to see it. In this instance, we found some light stress cracking on the port side bottom amidships along the..."

 

[RichardS]

El Cap, I wonder when you'll tire of this attention-seeking behaviour? I want to tell you, before you get offended, (or maybe you already are, which seems to be your preferred state of mind), I started out (forgive me guys but I call it like I see it, just like you do), actually kind of "on your side" as far as seeing your point about some remarks that could be construed as less than courteous replies to your question.

BUT......after a few more posts from you where it became obvious you were fanning the flames and enjoying it immensely, you lost me.

I am big on courtesy, and in fact started a thread recently about just that subject.

The problem is, you weren't satisfied, it seems, until you incited some anger. The very definition of "trolling".

I'm not going to review this thread and point out the examples that support what I am saying. You know what I am talking about and so does everybody else.

But it is time to call this thread "done", IMHO. If this were MY forum I would lock the thread at this point, because all you're doing now is , as I said, fanning the flames so you can say you were mistreated. NOTHING productive is going to come out of this thread that is relative to your original question.

It's NOT my forum, and I have no say about what gets locked, or who posts what. But I am DONE reading this thread, and I see ZERO reason to contribute to it again. I have better things to do than entertain an obviously very bored individual.

 

[fwebster]

You are wasting your time trying to find things Pascoe finds wrong with Sea Ray boats. His favorites are bluewater builders like Hattaras, Hinkley, Viking, etc. and feels Sea Ray is inferior…..and all but the L-class probably is inferior to the brands listed.

You were upset that we didn't give you specifics on your question, although I did tell you why twice, so now it is my turn: How many Sea Ray hulls have been reported because "something is breaking apart". If you haven't figured it out, Pascoe is known for huge generalizations with very little or no data to back them up. He is a surveyor paid to examine one boat, yet he generalizes about everything Sea Ray has built, is building or plans to build.

 

[Henry Boyd]

You are wasting your time trying to find things Pascoe finds wrong with Sea Ray boats. His favorites are bluewater builders like Hattaras, Hinkley, Viking, etc. and feels Sea Ray is inferior…..and all but the L-class probably is inferior to the brands listed.

You were upset that we didn't give you specifics on your question, although I did tell you why twice, so now it is my turn: How many Sea Ray hulls have been reported because "something is breaking apart". If you haven't figured it out, Pascoe is known for huge generalizations with very little or no data to back them up. He is a surveyor paid to examine one boat, yet he generalizes about everything Sea Ray has built, is building or plans to build.

Well said Frank. I've worked with a lot marine surveyors on ships and port cargo handling equipment over the years and the extrapolation of a defect to a whole production run without statistical support seems to be a common trait.

Henry

Ps thanks for the lock lubricant link.


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[juggernaut1]

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/SeaRay27.htm

"...We've never cared much for the way Sea Ray builds their hulls because they basically box in their stringers - making a shelf between the outboard stringer and the chine - and generally close off the rest of the interior so that you can't see what's going on with the internal hull. Thus, if something is breaking apart, you're not likely to see it. In this instance, we found some light stress cracking on the port side bottom amidships along the..."

We'd hope SeaRay's practices, process and materials have improved over the last 30 odd years.

Although you quote an interesting point - I've always wondered what happens if you punctured the hull in say the galley area - how does one stop the leak - does it run to the bilge area? Are other cruiser style boats built similarly?

I've been around commercial boats where you can access the entire hull under the floor.

 

[fwebster]

Sea Ray boats are constructed with multiple bilge sumps that are placed in the hull at various points to collect bilge water where it is then pumped overboard. Hull damage in the galley isn't difficult because you can remove the interior and get to what you need to. Molded assemblies like the head units are built outside the boat then set in place when complete. they block access to the hull and the hull blocks access to the head unit. Such molded assemblies are usually placed above the water line, but if a hull is breeched below the waterline and a head unit is located there, the water runs down the inside of the hull and collects under the floor of the boat. Those areas are accessible but not easily. Honestly, if a head unit is involved in a hull breech, the owner has a lot bigger problem to deal with than water under his floor because the hull has to be repaired from the exterior and the head unit from the inside of the boat. Typically a hull breech is repaired structurally from the inside and cosmetically from the exterior. Doing it all from the outside of the molded piece is a lot bigger challenge.

 

[juggernaut1]

Thanks Frank,

I was mainly concerned about the situation at the time of striking, say a reef under the galley floor, which penetrated the hull. But the first part of your answer answered my question. I also have a small aluminium runabout which has foam under the floor as such boats must have basic floatation or level floatation (depending when built) to comply with Aus standards. I'm not sure of the situation with our Aus built Riveria's and Maritimo's though. Perhaps they have sealed compartments so that if one is breached only that compartment is flooded and the boat continues to stay afloat :huh:.

 

[PlayDate]

I can't speak for all Sea Ray builds but the "shelf" between the stringers in the galley area does appear to add significant support. It also makes inspecting the inner hull in the Galley area very difficult. The space between the hull and the shelf is filled with sprayed in foam and there is no place for the water to drain. Last year, I ran into a situation where a porthole window leak over a period of months managed to put enough water into that space so that water was magically appearing and flooding the floor storage locker (where the shower sump is located). Similar leaks could be caused by a burst water pipe or a disconnected AC condensate line. I posted about it.

I repaired the porthole leak and wanted to get the water out the void.

I ended up carefully (pucker time since the boat was in the water) drilling two 4" holes in the shelf (there is a divider that supports the shelf which means you need a port and starboard hole). I removed as much foam as I could from each hole by hand and wired in two small self actuating bilge pumps to evacuate the water. In the end, it was just an inconvenience but it did make me wonder how water would ever find its way out of the galley area. The only factory bilge pumps I have are in the Engine Room and there is no weep hole between the ER and Galley/Salon part of the hull. I can appreciate why given that you don't want to create an air path between the Engine Room and a living space but without a weep hole or bilge pump below the Galley floor ....the water would have to flood/rise to the point where it found its way to the shower drain. On my boat the shower drain is 14" higher than the bottom of the void. Only then would the shower sump start to remove the water and pump it out. That's a lot of water in the boat.

Perhaps this has changed on newer/other models but the fix was relatively easy and it gave me two 4" access ports so that I could inspect the area.

 

[Tonka Boater]

If you go back and read El Capitan's posts you'll see he's been "searching" for a boat for over 2 years now. Nothing wrong with that but there's a pattern to his posts -- nothing is ever good enough. He's searching for mid-80's boats and apparently has come close to pulling the trigger but has changed his mind every time for various reasons. He even owned a Sea Ray that he says he regrets selling!?!?

The other pattern is that he's looking for others to validate his thought process.

Here's the thing -- buy a dang boat or don't! We don't care! Make up your mind and don't blame those who are trying to help you when you reach out for help. You started looking for mid-80's under $8k and now you want a 90's under $10k -- you won't find a pristine boat that checks all of your boxes with those parameters. Stop being so nervous and picky and just get something you like. When you do, we'll be here to support you and answer your questions. In the meantime, our patience is running thin. You ask, we answer, you complain or defend yourself.

Sh!t or get off the pot and stop blaming us.

 

[El Capitan]

If you go back and read El Capitan's posts you'll see he's been "searching" for a boat for over 2 years now. Nothing wrong with that but there's a pattern to his posts -- nothing is ever good enough. He's searching for mid-80's boats and apparently has come close to pulling the trigger but has changed his mind every time for various reasons. He even owned a Sea Ray that he says he regrets selling!?!?

The other pattern is that he's looking for others to validate his thought process.

Here's the thing -- buy a dang boat or don't! We don't care! Make up your mind and don't blame those who are trying to help you when you reach out for help. You started looking for mid-80's under $8k and now you want a 90's under $10k -- you won't find a pristine boat that checks all of your boxes with those parameters. Stop being so nervous and picky and just get something you like. When you do, we'll be here to support you and answer your questions. In the meantime, our patience is running thin. You ask, we answer, you complain or defend yourself.

Sh!t or get off the pot and stop blaming us.

typical ignorance displayed by your post. I just sold my 230cc. Looking for bowrider now.
Perfect example of what I've been saying about some responses.

Opinions are like... you know, Everyone has one. It's perfectly fine that there is little data ( although several provided some good info) about where, if anywhere, is the price premium found in the higher cost of a SR compared to BL given same parent, especially today given convergence of manufacturing processes with standardization practices and bulk volume purchasing of OEM parts and materials by Brunswick.

Pascoe is now criticized by SR owners for his findings. Interesting responses about a licensed surveyor. He has nothing personal against SR. He opined critical of other manufactures if you read his other surveys.

Once again, this sn't about which boat is "better" or "rides better" , those are subjective opinions.

Im fine with what I've learned regarding my original post. I'm more intrigued by how some "nice" people here are really rude and of limited intellectual capacity which they reveal in their responses.

Im never insulted by such btw.

 

[PlayDate]

Internet Troll

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

Further:

Why do trolls troll?

Anyone who has spent time on the Web has probably wondered in exasperation what motivates people to spew venom and wreak havoc in seemingly every forum and comment section. Science has begun to provide a few answers.

A 2014 University of Manitoba study was the first to attempt to create a personality profile of trolls. Researchers surveyed hundreds of Internet users and gave them personality tests.

Most respondents said they liked to do benign things online, such as chatting and debating issues, but 5.6 percent reported that they enjoyed trolling. The personality tests for this group were striking.

People who enjoyed trolling had much higher rates of dark traits such as sadism, narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism — so much so that “it might be said that online trolls are prototypical everyday sadists,” the authors concluded.


So, El Capitan......give it some thought. If you got what you wanted out of this......just say goodbye. More poking and taunting will only result in you getting banned from the site. If that is what you want....one or two more posts ought to do it.

 

[Lazy Daze]

It's perfectly fine that there is little data ( although several provided some good info) about where, if anywhere, is the price premium found in the higher cost of a SR compared to BL given same parent, especially today given convergence of manufacturing processes with standardization practices and bulk volume purchasing of OEM parts and materials by Brunswick.

Just as a point of clarification here, the assumption that Sea Ray and Bayliner share parts, or buy them "together" is wrong. As noted by a few responses above, the SR and BL factories are run COMPLETELY different. While Brunswick is, indeed, the parent company of both, Brunswick does not make the boats nor does Brunswick do the buying of parts. They're simply a holding company. Instead, Sea Ray does their own buying and US Marine (the company that makes Bayliner) does their buying. The materials used, construction process, engineering, research and design, testing, etc, etc, is completely left up to the two individual companies. You might find the occasional item where both companies, by chance, buy the same thing - but for the most part, they don't share anything. Even things like the vinyl and quality/density of the seat foam is different between the two boats. Heck, even the trailers used in the boat/motor/trailer packages are of different qualities.

Yes, I have a preference to Sea Ray. But I could work at a local Bayliner dealer if I wanted to. But I don't - it's my choice to work where I do. Given my signature I don't want to get too far into this discussion since some may think I may be prejudiced. You'll just have to believe me when I say I'm not. Let me put it this way... I see these boats (inside and out, all brands and types) to a much greater extent than most on here. Bayliner is a fine boat for what it is. There's nothing wrong with that - it has it's place in the market. But to explain my point, take a look at the boats in my signature - those are NOT there because I work at a Sea Ray dealership. They are boats I've owned because they are MY choice of what boat I feel best suits me and my family's needs. The only ones not there are some little boats, a sailboat or two and boats that most would never have heard of (Seaway, for example).

 

[Steve195]

Opinions are like... you know, Everyone has one. .

That's the most accurate thing you've said in ANY of your posts. And YOUR opinion is no better or worse, more true or false, nor does it carry more or less weight than any other opinion that's been offered in response to your posts.

Your original post asked for data, some of which (obviously based on the responses) is hard to come by, so you got a some data, and a lot of opinions, all of which are valid.

Why you are critical of others who have, in good faith, posted answers to your original question, is beyond me and clearly uncalled for.

Please don't waste time responding to this post, because it's my opinion and it's just as valid as anything you've got to say!

The vast majority of us on this forum are here to offer positive help, knowledge and information and we also use it to learn. I hope you'll do the same.

 

[FootballFan]

Are worthless topics ever locked?

 

[Tonka Boater]

typical ignorance displayed by your post. I just sold my 230cc. Looking for bowrider now.
Perfect example of what I've been saying about some responses.

Opinions are like... you know, Everyone has one.....blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Well... there's one in everyone forum. Congrats! You're the new W!ngless.

 

[aerobat77]

Thanks Frank,

I was mainly concerned about the situation at the time of striking, say a reef under the galley floor, which penetrated the hull.

if you seriously crack the hull on a reef you - whatever brand of boat you run - have good chances to finally sink. the enclosed areas in a sea ray design might help to isolate the flooding and stay afloat until help arrives , but i think its pure theory you could stop the 'leak' on your 38 if you rip the hull midships on a reef - whatever access you have .

i think every searay ( and other brands ) bigger than a 20ft bowrider is basicly "sinkable" .

 

[Henry Boyd]

if you seriously crack the hull on a reef you - whatever brand of boat you run - have good chances to finally sink. the enclosed areas in a sea ray design might help to isolate the flooding and stay afloat until help arrives , but i think its pure theory you could stop the 'leak' on your 38 if you rip the hull midships on a reef - whatever access you have .

i think every searay ( and other brands ) bigger than a 20ft bowrider is basicly "sinkable" .

That's a pretty accurate statement. It all comes down to making water go out of the boat faster than it comes in. No recreational boat is equipped with pumps to deal with a major hull breech.

Henry


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[War Eagle]

Get a ride on a five year old Bayliner in heavy weather .... then a similar SR .... you will have your answer!

 

[Bridog]

Topics are usually only locked when Scooter Wayne gets his drink on.