Your Boat's True Value - Observations from FLIBS

[Blueone]

So, here is the insurance story in Fl to add to the boat purchase calculus.
Boat over 50 feet, older than 10 years, any claims within five years, year around location in Florida.
There is no insurance available, period.
If you have insurance be ready for cancellation.
My insurance (SafeWaters) is completely pulling out of the market. They notified me in June of non-renewal.
My broker (based in Fl) has been looking for a market to insure my boat since June.
They finally landed on a high risk specialty carrier called Concept.
I've owned and been running these boats for over 20 years and check the boxes in the USCG safety courses. I don't have a six-pack or other licenses. I did have an insurance claim due to a lightning strike in Aug 2019 (more than 3 years ago).
The premium has come back at just under $13,000 per year.
This does not include a Bahamas rider which is an additional premium cost for each trip.
I must have a person over the age of 21 on the boat with me whenever it is in motion (figure that one out).
All survey recommendations (not only the mandatory fixes which there were none) must be listed and a date when addressed.

So, that's the story and my broker fully expects things to get more challenging going forward.

A friend of mine has an older hatteras 55-60’ in ft Myer’s. He was telling me he takes the insured value down well below half and assumes he is self insuring for the rest.

 

[Jeremygavin]

We looked at all three of them and they are nice, really nice. Two docks East were the Riviera's; did you take a look at those also? Well built boats and good looking; everything the Maritimo's are.
I was again smitten by the Vicem's, which I thought one of the finest boat at the show. We were on the Vicem 55 Flybridge which the owner took delivery two weeks prior and talked to him for at least an hour. We got the nuts and bolts tour of his boat in which he spent a lot of time at the built in Turkey. After that personal tour I'm even more impressed. http://vicemyachts.com/classic-series/vicem-classic-55-flybridge/
Probably the biggest disappointment at the show for me was the Aquila power cats. We were on the 54 Power Cat - the finishes and materials were poor, very poor and wasted space everywhere; just a bad combination.
The Sea Ray lineup was very good - this was the first year in many they had their full product line on display. I see the traditional SR quality coming back across the models. Plus, it was awesome to see familiar faces.

We did go on the riviera’s. They are really nice boats, but for now their boats in the 50ft range are all pods and I would prefer to stick with shaft drive boats. They are coming out with a 58 sport motor yacht that will be offered in both shaft drive and pods so that could be an option down the line.
I agree that Vicems are beautiful boats but I don’t feel like they use the space as well as some of the others. Also, they are even more money because of their more custom build nature. My wife doesn’t like the layout on a lot of them because the ones we have been on are all galley down boats. We like the Maritimo and Riviera layout of having the galley just inside the cockpit.

 

[ttmott]

A friend of mine has an older hatteras 55-60’ in ft Myer’s. He was telling me he takes the insured value down well below half and assumes he is self insuring for the rest.

Even so, insurance isn't available - the market no longer exists. I feel for your friend when he/they renew or worse get cancelled. No doubt they will be paying through the nose even with the highest deductibles and lowest comprehensive. I was willing to completely self-insure and only obtain liability, but no one is selling just liability policies that we can find. I also tried to extend my umbrella policy over an uninsured boat - no bueno. It's bad and getting worse in Fl.

 

[keokie]

Lot's of great comments here. I think the reality is simply that the market has changed... a lot.

I remember going to big boat shows in the 80's and 90's. Miami, Dallas, Detroit, San Diego, LA, even Phoenix.

There was a seemingly endless supply of cruiser type boats in the 25' to 40' range. And Sea Ray was outstanding in this market.

For the way and where we boat, my favorites were always the largest Sundancer I could realistically tow.

17 years ago, I landed on my current boat in great shape on the used market. It has served our family wonderfully. I would upgrade it, but to what? A five to a dozen year newer Sundancer, maybe. But the very vast majority are in lousy condition, present with about a thousand unknowns, and really don't offer anything I don't already have. The newer stuff on the used market just doesn't appeal to me. Too sophisticated electronically for me to keep after, and with 'luxuries' I have no desire for.

There is the current absolutely absurdly expensive new stuff. But actually darn little of it. Only a handful of cruisers from anyone anymore. And honestly, the transformer looking styling is gawd-awful in my opinion.

Everything else is CC's, wakeboard boats, or pontoons. I have no interest in any of those. Like has been mentioned, I want AC, Fridge, real head, Microwave, shade, a real bed, etc. In a planing boat, those features are all but gone.

And insurance is becoming a problem, too. And marinas in the west are being bought out and sold for waterfront condos. My primary boating country is Lake Powell which is running out of water.

But to any who think I may be on my way out... No way. I love it too much. Just this summer had one of our best Lake Powell vacations ever. Still plenty of water regardless of what they say.

So, I will keep my boat, and continue to make the best of it. I have all but given up on the idea of a newer bigger boat. But mine stays in my garage, so it is not deteriorating and aside from time issues, I have the capability to do all my own maintenance and projects, which is part of the experience.

So, even though I am disappointed with the trends and pricing of the industry, I am still immensely enjoying my experience of being a boater, and hope all of you are as well.

 

[Gofirstclass]

All of this negativity about the high costs and availability of new models and knowing the interest rates have jumped sky high make me glad we were able to sell Beachcomber last summer when prices were still way up.

Mostly due to timing (we bought her in 2010 and sold her in 2021), we used and enjoyed her for 10 years and were able to sell her for more than we paid for her. That doesn't happen often.

 

[sbw1]

A while back 10-15 of us were sitting on a new 42 foot Tiara Open that Leon Slikker had brought to a Tiara gathering in Charevoix, MI. Most of us owned late model Tiaras. Slikker, as you may know is the founder and owner of S2 Yachts, Tiara’s parent company. He asked the group, how many of us intended to buy a new Tiara Open or Sovran in the next 5 years? Almost no one had plans to do so. His response was, “You see, that is my problem. The market for these models is going away.” Shortly after that exchange, Tiara began building boats that held little appeal to me. The company could care less since I was not going to buy another Open. The boats they make today are bow riders with outboards and models called coupes. In my view they are pretty ugly. But the next generation of boaters love them. No more Opens are being built. Times change.

 

[ttmott]

We did go on the riviera’s. They are really nice boats, but for now their boats in the 50ft range are all pods and I would prefer to stick with shaft drive boats. They are coming out with a 58 sport motor yacht that will be offered in both shaft drive and pods so that could be an option down the line.
I agree that Vicems are beautiful boats but I don’t feel like they use the space as well as some of the others. Also, they are even more money because of their more custom build nature. My wife doesn’t like the layout on a lot of them because the ones we have been on are all galley down boats. We like the Maritimo and Riviera layout of having the galley just inside the cockpit.

I just got the price list from the Vicem sales rep- not out of line comparatively. I don't know when the one I was on was ordered but the owner said with all of his options he had $1.1M into it -

 

[Tim Fila]

I'm sorry, but that is just fugly....

 

[my3sons]

On that Vicem, what do they do to it that changes the hull to a CE category A, and for only 16K? Seems as though in a boat like that they would just do it for that money. Must be some advantage to being a “B”? I was unaware that a boat could be optioned into a higher sea category. Obviously must be more than hull design and loading capacities.

 

[ttmott]

On that Vicem, what do they do to it that changes the hull to a CE category A, and for only 16K? Seems as though in a boat like that they would just do it for that money. Must be some advantage to being a “B”? I was unaware that a boat could be optioned into a higher sea category. Obviously must be more than hull design and loading capacities.

They were all epoxy vacuum infused mahogany wood hulls up until 2022 when they offered a more traditional polyester glass hulls and the wood an option for the 55; a $160k+ cost offset for a potential buyer. The interesting thing is every one is unique (like buying a Nordhavn) and the owner is a part of the design effort. One could, for example option for an enclosed fly bridge and delete the lower station allowing the galley on the solon level with two or three staterooms. These are not showroom boats and they are 18 months out on the build.

 

[copb8tx]

A while back 10-15 of us were sitting on a new 42 foot Tiara Open that Leon Slikker had brought to a Tiara gathering in Charevoix, MI. Most of us owned late model Tiaras. Slikker, as you may know is the founder and owner of S2 Yachts, Tiara’s parent company. He asked the group, how many of us intended to buy a new Tiara Open or Sovran in the next 5 years? Almost no one had plans to do so. His response was, “You see, that is my problem. The market for these models is going away.” Shortly after that exchange, Tiara began building boats that held little appeal to me. The company could care less since I was not going to buy another Open. The boats they make today are bow riders with outboards and models called coupes. In my view they are pretty ugly. But the next generation of boaters love them. No more Opens are being built. Times change.

I'm definitely not 'next generation' but I really love the Tiara LS line of cross-over day boat/light weekenders.

After reading Jeremy's experience with insurance I'm going to have to totally reevaluate my current boating goals in FL. Maybe our move from a cabin boat to a condo and CC was accidently brilliant after all. It seems upgrading them both to a certain degree may be the best move for the future.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

I tried to talk the CFO into looking at a canal home a couple of years ago. I should have been looking at them when we relocated but didn't. I would gladly have gotten a canal home and kept the Cobia on a lift. As it is, I'm 8 miles from the marina and can get there in about 15-20 minutes. I probably could have bought our well and had a lift installed and been almost as happy and have some extra cash left in the bank. Maybe when my MIL is in a memory care home, I'll appreciate the 390DA more as we'll be able to use it as it is intended to be used. I hope so anyway...

 

[Timeflys]

“I'm going to have to totally reevaluate my current boating goals in FL.”

We are south of you in St.Pete Beach area….it’s not for everybody, but we joined a boat club…(yes, there are a few to choose from….Sovreign, Gulfstream,Freedom) ours is about 20 mins from our condo. We have access to a 26’ centre console with twin Yamahas….no worries about dockage, storage, depreciation, Mtc etc. Flexible membership plans.
Works for us.

 

[Skybolt]

With regard to what @Maybe A Dancer first talked about, I can not believe what center console boats are being sold for. It is beyond my realm of comprehension to see 1-2m being spent on a center console when a boat like the 450DA isn't even being made any longer. What really makes me shake my head is that a boat like that isn't even in demand (Except for the used market). I guess people now a days are so engrossed in their kids lives that they have no time for a boat like that.

I could not comprehend spending a million on a boat unless I had so many more it didn't matter. And to think that has become the norm for the industry and to cater to that mindset is truly baffling to me.

Someone in this thread mentioned that they are driving the middle class out of marina's and like wise boating in general is just crazy. The middle class is what created this venue. As a line from a song by Arron Lewis goes "Hell, I'll be damned, I think I'm turnin' into my old man" ...

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Here's the Contender at FLIBS:

$1,411,715

 

[Blueone]

Even so, insurance isn't available - the market no longer exists. I feel for your friend when he/they renew or worse get cancelled. No doubt they will be paying through the nose even with the highest deductibles and lowest comprehensive. I was willing to completely self-insure and only obtain liability, but no one is selling just liability policies that we can find. I also tried to extend my umbrella policy over an uninsured boat - no bueno. It's bad and getting worse in Fl.

I talked to him today…. He uses CHUB….for what it’s worth…. he has about $15k in repairs and won’t put it thru insurance

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

From SEA MAGAZINE, 1996

"The backbone of Sea Ray’s growth, the Sundancers are now the most popular line of boats over 24 feet in the U.S. For more than 20 years, they have helped to sell the merits of express cruisers, as well as make Sea Ray the world’s second largest boat builder."

My, how things have changed - entire article attached here:

 

[BEH]

“I'm going to have to totally reevaluate my current boating goals in FL.”

We are south of you in St.Pete Beach area….it’s not for everybody, but we joined a boat club…(yes, there are a few to choose from….Sovreign, Gulfstream,Freedom) ours is about 20 mins from our condo. We have access to a 26’ centre console with twin Yamahas….no worries about dockage, storage, depreciation, Mtc etc. Flexible membership plans.
Works for us.

Like you, we are also in St Pete for the winter, Nov to end of April, and have looked at the Freedom boat club.
Sounds like you belong to the Sovereign Club.
About how often do you use the boat?
Off shore fishing, restaurant cruising etc?
Last winter I kept track of the days that we would use it.
Not many, mainly due to wind and cold January.
Thanks

 

[mrsrobinson]

With what's happening in FLA I predict slip availability and rent will go up for us other east coasters. Those boats gotta goes someheres

To the waiting 2.5 years to have a more modern boat built, never. In 2.5 years it's no longer modern and who knows where pricing will be then. I am 100% happy and satisfied with my boat purchase this year. Though I do tend to think about what @douglee25 said from time to time, especially with winterization quickly approaching. Yes, I can comfortably afford it, but...

 

[MonacoMike]

“I'm going to have to totally reevaluate my current boating goals in FL.”

We are south of you in St.Pete Beach area….it’s not for everybody, but we joined a boat club…(yes, there are a few to choose from….Sovreign, Gulfstream,Freedom) ours is about 20 mins from our condo. We have access to a 26’ centre console with twin Yamahas….no worries about dockage, storage, depreciation, Mtc etc. Flexible membership plans.
Works for us.

Looks like we are on the way to the life the WEF believes in…

1. All products will have become services. “I don't own anything. I don't own a car. I don't own a house. I don't own any appliances or any clothes,” writes Danish MP Ida Auken. Shopping is a distant memory in the city of 2030, whose inhabitants have cracked clean energy and borrow what they need on demand. It sounds utopian, until she mentions that her every move is tracked and outside the city live swathes of discontents, the ultimate depiction of a society split in two.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/8-predictions-for-the-world-in-2030/