Your Boat's True Value - Observations from FLIBS

[Maybe A Dancer]

Facts and opinions

Fact: Sea Ray's base MSRP price as advertised in December 1995 for my 1996 450 Sundancer was $369,000 with the base engines.

This number does not include any optional equipment, canvas, electronics, etc.

A 2023 Grady White Freedom 37' with triple Yamaha 425's is $1,087,978.00

I can't imagine what the NEW REPLACEMENT cost would be for the 1996 450 Dancer, which is truly no longer available in any brand/shape/or form. Seems everything here is outboards, outboards, outboards.

With my low tech CATS and VEE Drives I have proven reliability

No pod drives, no HDPI/electronics boards/connections in a saltwater environment, no fly by wire, no joysticks/chips/computers/ etc. (see attachment)

Maybe I'm an old fossil as well as it seems the market has moved toward go fast/get there/come home with loud music and the center console crowd leading the way.

I like having shade

I like having the icemaker and 2 fridges

I like having a place to prepare a meal, relax, take a hot shower, sit on a real toilet......

I like having the genny running and providing that HVAC

I like that over night ability, and independence

I like having that nice, hot coffee brewing in the morning

The cocktail sunset, the breakfast sunrise....

I suppose a boat like this would be well in excess of 1 Million today, but apparently there's no market for these, except to gray headed old guys (age 65) like me.

Otherwise, they would be here at the show.

I don't get it, can someone please explain?

Meanwhile I'll continue my love affair with this 26 year old relic, sleeping in that full sized master and sittin' on dhat toilet.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Golfman25]

The boat market is quickly moving away from the common folks.

 

[Blueone]

I have at least a dozen boats around me at the marina that have a smaller 25’-30’ center console to run around in. Their bigger boat never leaves the dock.
So not unlike what your describing …. You like your base ….not unlike a waterfront home where you hop on the cc to joy ride or go to dinner etc. I can see that side too.

 

[LMBoat]

I could not agree more! I live in FLL and I'm not going to the show. Not much there for me anymore. And I have a lot of boating left in me......I know my boat new in '99 was $580K (I'm the second owner, but have paperwork showing this). When Searay was selling new 45 footers they were $1 mil +. I'll happily keep my old boat and put the $800K in my pocket.

 

[Shoyrtt]

Facts and opinions

Fact: Sea Ray's base MSRP price as advertised in December 1995 for my 1996 450 Sundancer was $369,000 with the base engines.

This number does not include any optional equipment, canvas, electronics, etc.

A 2023 Grady White Freedom 37' with triple Yamaha 425's is $1,087,978.00

I can't imagine what the NEW REPLACEMENT cost would be for the 1996 450 Dancer, which is truly no longer available in any brand/shape/or form. Seems everything here is outboards, outboards, outboards.

With my low tech CATS and VEE Drives I have proven reliability

No pod drives, no HDPI/electronics boards/connections in a saltwater environment, no fly by wire, no joysticks/chips/computers/ etc. (see attachment)

Maybe I'm an old fossil as well as it seems the market has moved toward go fast/get there/come home with loud music and the center console crowd leading the way.

I like having shade

I like having the icemaker and 2 fridges

I like having a place to prepare a meal, relax, take a hot shower, sit on a real toilet......

I like having the genny running and providing that HVAC

I like that over night ability, and independence

I like having that nice, hot coffee brewing in the morning

The cocktail sunset, the breakfast sunrise....

I suppose a boat like this would be well in excess of 1 Million today, but apparently there's no market for these, except to gray headed old guys (age 65) like me.

Otherwise, they would be here at the show.

I don't get it, can someone please explain?

Meanwhile I'll continue my love affair with this 26 year old relic, sleeping in that full sized master and sittin' on dhat toilet.

BEST !

RWS

The two boats out here on the left coast that seem to have filled the void left by Sea Ray's departure are Tiara and Riviera. You can't get either one without a joystick or pods, but they are really nicely built.

As far as a sedan bridge, I believe you can still order a Mikelson out of San Diego with a direct or v-drive. The Mikelson won't win any beauty contests, but you get a great functioning boat with a nice wide beam. I like all three brands and the new models all sell for well above the million mark. They also click all the boxes, but you are right, they also have issues with the new electronics as the end of the line big Sea Rays did in 2017/18.

 

[Gofirstclass]

I'm another who feels left behind. I had a 550DB and looking at what's out there in that style/size, not only could I not afford it, but I don't like what's on the market.

 

[Strecker25]

Facts and opinions

Fact: Sea Ray's base MSRP price as advertised in December 1995 for my 1996 450 Sundancer was $369,000 with the base engines.

This number does not include any optional equipment, canvas, electronics, etc.

A 2023 Grady White Freedom 37' with triple Yamaha 425's is $1,087,978.00

I can't imagine what the NEW REPLACEMENT cost would be for the 1996 450 Dancer, which is truly no longer available in any brand/shape/or form. Seems everything here is outboards, outboards, outboards.

With my low tech CATS and VEE Drives I have proven reliability

No pod drives, no HDPI/electronics boards/connections in a saltwater environment, no fly by wire, no joysticks/chips/computers/ etc. (see attachment)

Maybe I'm an old fossil as well as it seems the market has moved toward go fast/get there/come home with loud music and the center console crowd leading the way.

I like having shade

I like having the icemaker and 2 fridges

I like having a place to prepare a meal, relax, take a hot shower, sit on a real toilet......

I like having the genny running and providing that HVAC

I like that over night ability, and independence

I like having that nice, hot coffee brewing in the morning

The cocktail sunset, the breakfast sunrise....

I suppose a boat like this would be well in excess of 1 Million today, but apparently there's no market for these, except to gray headed old guys (age 65) like me.

Otherwise, they would be here at the show.

I don't get it, can someone please explain?

Meanwhile I'll continue my love affair with this 26 year old relic, sleeping in that full sized master and sittin' on dhat toilet.

BEST !

RWS

65 year old gray hairs, or 35 year olds with young families

in the Great Lakes especially, where the weather sucks 50% of the season, we have to use all the things you mentioned - especially the heat and canvas.

i can’t afford $1M for the new boats that fit our use, so we’ll make due with our old relic as well

 

[MonacoMike]

We have several of our dock friends that have sold their 320-460 boats and now have a condo and a center console. The admiral brings it up from time to time. Busy work year made travel difficult so we had lots of nights sleeping on the Crusier and about 60 hours on the day boat. I get it.

I also see the ridiculousness in new boats that is part of pricing out the middle class. (Not sure if intended or unintended, but the outcome is the same.)

Example of what I’m describing; my forward berth privacy curtain is a nice accordion blind secured by two nylon straps that are screwed on one end and have a snap on the other to hold it in place when not in use.

This cost very little and is neat and tidy. But a new boat has a several hundred dollar custom latching system at the least and likely a sliding panel system, made entirely of proprietary parts, that not only are very expensive but likely not even obtainable when it breaks on the 10 year old vessel.

It is, as I said, ridiculous…

 

[dwna1a]

I’d love to move up in size, but not in years. I’ve found a few 40’s out there. Most have been ridden hard and look like hell. The used market is still way to far out of line. I loved GFC’s boat and one of our admin just sold his. Both were worth every penny. Both still had great lines. I know I saw the original price of my 88’s selling price. It was north of $85.

The Sable still looks great to me, it has classic lines. But I’d have to win tonight lotto to buy one

 

[Jeremygavin]

The ideal replacement for my 520DB is a Maritimo M55. We just saw it at Flibs for the first time in person and it is a beautiful boat. Speaking with the head North America sales guy They have 34 on order and are 2.5yrs out if you want a new one. Also, they are $2.8mill new when optioned out the way I would want it. That seems insane to me. That boat is the same length as mine (2’ more beam) with the same number heads and staterooms. It is a lot nicer and more modern than my Searay but hell it cost 2 times as much new as my 520DB was in 2011. I will continue to enjoy my boat for years to come at that price.

 

[ttmott]

The ideal replacement for my 520DB is a Maritimo M55. We just saw it at Flibs for the first time in person and it is a beautiful boat. Speaking with the head North America sales guy They have 34 on order and are 2.5yrs out if you want a new one. Also, they are $2.8mill new when optioned out the way I would want it. That seems insane to me. That boat is the same length as mine (2’ more beam) with the same number heads and staterooms. It is a lot nicer and more modern than my Searay but hell it cost 2 times as much new as my 520DB was in 2011. I will continue to enjoy my boat for years to come at that price.

We looked at all three of them and they are nice, really nice. Two docks East were the Riviera's; did you take a look at those also? Well built boats and good looking; everything the Maritimo's are.
I was again smitten by the Vicem's, which I thought one of the finest boat at the show. We were on the Vicem 55 Flybridge which the owner took delivery two weeks prior and talked to him for at least an hour. We got the nuts and bolts tour of his boat in which he spent a lot of time at the built in Turkey. After that personal tour I'm even more impressed. http://vicemyachts.com/classic-series/vicem-classic-55-flybridge/
Probably the biggest disappointment at the show for me was the Aquila power cats. We were on the 54 Power Cat - the finishes and materials were poor, very poor and wasted space everywhere; just a bad combination.
The Sea Ray lineup was very good - this was the first year in many they had their full product line on display. I see the traditional SR quality coming back across the models. Plus, it was awesome to see familiar faces.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

I live on the water, on a salt water canal.

The 45DA is docked behind the house.

Not a poor man, nor a rich man either.

Don't live in a shack, or a McMansion. Can't afford to or understand paying more for a recreational boat than the house is worth.

Has that 10 meter with the Yanmars for 21 years. Did the repower and genny during my ownership.

Nothing currently available that could replace my 45DA, which is admittedly my LAST BOAT.

In addition to my OP, I'd also add that she came with bow and stern thrusters, Glendenning cable master and as compared to the 10 Meter, accessibility is easy with that transom door.

I have a yet to be installed single remote for her thrusters, cablemaster and anchor.

That remote & those thrusters will make it easy to handle my docking duties, shorepower and simplify tying up as my age advances.

Anyhow, that's my story.

BEST !

RWS

 

[jmauld]

Did any of you look at the Brazilian boats in the 40’ range?

I left that show thinking the best option would be to move up to a 45’ dock and try to find a 45’ Sundancer with the full windshield.

I also really liked the greenline 40. So perhaps I should just hold on to my 390da for a while until they fall to the price where I think their value is.

 

[Timeflys]

Probably the biggest disappointment at the show for me was the Aquila power cats. We were on the 54 Power Cat -

That doesn’t seem to stop the popularity…it seems that is all Marine Max is selling in St Pete…not my cup of tea..I find them aesthetically ugly but it is the trend these days.

 

[jmauld]

Probably the biggest disappointment at the show for me was the Aquila power cats. We were on the 54 Power Cat - the finishes and materials were poor, very poor and wasted space everywhere; just a bad combination.

These were on our list before we stepped aboard. Their quality was on par with the Brazilian boats, their pricing was inline with the US boats and their seating was horrible. No longer interested in those.

The Fountaine Pajot boats put the Aquila boats to shame.

I also previously had no desire for a big CC. But the 38’ tidewater might change my mind.

 

[ttmott]

That doesn’t seem to stop the popularity…it seems that is all Marine Max is selling in St Pete…not my cup of tea..I find them aesthetically ugly but it is the trend these days.

I've seen several in the marina's around here and actually like the lines but more importantly the interior space vs length. Here in Fl length and age is the go/no go on insurance. Reasons I wanted to take a close look at them. Plus, the hull efficiency on these boats are fantastic due to the nose designs. But, again, for what they are demanding in cost the finishes are below poor.

 

[dtfeld]

I didn't have time to get on too many boats, but there are a lot of boats that I don't like the lines of in any way shape or form, especially at the price point being offered. I was draw over to the Green Zone and stepped on a 45 Sabre. Classic lines, nice layout, seemed like a quality boat, but well over $1M and only comes with Pods.

Of course I'm always a fan of the battle Wagons with Hatteras and Viking never disappointing.

But it does make me think that continuing to own and improve my 410 is the way to go.

 

[ttmott]

So, here is the insurance story in Fl to add to the boat purchase calculus.
Boat over 50 feet, older than 10 years, any claims within five years, year around location in Florida.
There is no insurance available, period.
If you have insurance be ready for cancellation.
My insurance (SafeWaters) is completely pulling out of the market. They notified me in June of non-renewal.
My broker (based in Fl) has been looking for a market to insure my boat since June.
They finally landed on a high risk specialty carrier called Concept.
I've owned and been running these boats for over 20 years and check the boxes in the USCG safety courses. I don't have a six-pack or other licenses. I did have an insurance claim due to a lightning strike in Aug 2019 (more than 3 years ago).
The premium has come back at just under $13,000 per year.
This does not include a Bahamas rider which is an additional premium cost for each trip.
I must have a person over the age of 21 on the boat with me whenever it is in motion (figure that one out).
All survey recommendations (not only the mandatory fixes which there were none) must be listed and a date when addressed.

So, that's the story and my broker fully expects things to get more challenging going forward.

 

[my3sons]

Can’t even comprehend that.
I thought the premium for the years we took our boat south with the salt water riders were bad. $1400 total.

 

[douglee25]

This thread is timely for a couple reasons mentioned, but largely comes down to cost. Everything has gone up considerably in price in just the last few years that's making me question - is this even worth it any longer? My monthly slip cost went up another 10% - with literally no added amenities to support the cost, insurance ironically stay relatively flat, fuel is astronomical, and for whatever reason it was one of those challenging years on maintenance even though I keep up on everything. Couple that with my child's sport season that started up early August this year and just ended last week, the boat was used minimally for 3 months. It's not that I can't afford it, but I just ask myself 'why'? I thought about a smaller trailerable boat, but I don't want to store it at the house and I don't like to trailer. Ohhh the love/hate boating relationship.