Winterizing Recommendations

[ANYTIME]

I am wondering if there is a significant benefit to storing my boat this winter inside the Dealer's building vs. keeping it at the marina which is about 7 miles from the dealer.

If I store the boat at the dealer's facility, they will perform the normal maintenance on the engines (including generator), winterize all systems, haul the boat, powerwash the bottom, replace the zincs and store it in their boatel building (blocked on the floor). The hauling, blocking and monthly storage costs are not trivial.

If I store at the marina, I will have the dealer's technician(s) come to the marina, perform all normal maintenance, winterize all systems, either shrinkwrap or install the cockpit cover. My marina has relatively new floating docks and my slip is fairly well protected, and the bubbling machines are available. When spring arrives, I will have the dealer technicians come and prepare the boat and then take it to the dealer's facililty for a haul out, zinc replacement and a powerwash for the bottom.

What are the benefits of shrinkwraping vs. using the cockpit cover over the winter at the marina?

Moondancer was delivered new in April of this year and will have less than 50 hours of operation in an "almost" freshwater environment in the Potomac River. To date, she has not been south of the Quantico marina.

If the dealer does the work and stores Moondancer in the boatel, I need to deliver her to the dealer the first of November. If I keep her in the marina, I hope to continue boating (as our schedule permits) until the first of December. I have already reserved a spot at the boatel and wanted to be able to give the dealer advance notice if I decide to keep her at the marina instead.

I would appreciate your thoughts, comments and recommendations.

 

[comsnark]

So. . .the Boatel is essentially INDOOR storage? That is very cool.

Is this a heated building (ie, can't freeze); or are you still subject to freezing? In the DC area, how often does it get below freezing? Even in an unheated building, it will take longer for a building interior to drop below 32F.

Storing indoors is fantastic, as you don't have to cover the boat and you will not get sun damage, winds, rain and other crud all over your boat. I can imagine that it costs a FORTUNE.

Storing in the marina: Will the marina allow you to have an independent mechanic work on the boat? Or will they require you to do use *their* mechanics?

In terms of maintenance, it sounds like the dealer is doing the work regardless. Probably the same tech if he is traveling. The odds of each item being properly done is about 75% in either case. (Ok, I am a cynic).

As for covering: Don't just use the cockpit cover. You want to cover the boat stem to stern. It also puts major wear and tear on your cockpit cover. Leaving it on 12 months instead of 8 will wear the cover 33% faster.

I can't get my mind around shrinkwrapping. Besides the WASTE of the plastic, it is expensive. You dealer is charging, what, probably $750 to cover your boat right? I use a huge tarp. 30 x 20 for a 28' LOA boat. I have two support beam structures (one on the bow and one in the cockpit) made of cheap lumber to give it support and shape. Costs: $60 tarp. $10 in tiedown string (I don't fool around!). Lumber: $10 (and I reuse the lumber). Not perfect. . .but it works well enough.

Oh wait. . .are you talking about IN WATER storage? That can't be cheap either. Can you store it on land at the Marina? That would be far, far better. I bet the land is cheaper. They may be able to shrink wrap it cheaper as well.

I would not choose to do in water storage unless it is VERY MUCH cheaper. Although, my bias is based upon having a 35 year old sailboat with a cored hull. The hull will adsorb water over time, and you want to give it some time to dry out. I pull that sailboat every other year (saves $1000+ in haul out/storage costs; plus reduces the bottom maintenance)

 

[Henry Boyd]

Over the years we have shrink wrapped, or used blue tarps. My conclusion is that if your boat is outside and there is regular freezing weather and snow/rain, shrink wrapping is the only way to go.

Yes tarps are cheaper and more eco friendly. But shrink wrap, because it is taut and slippery sheds snow and does not allow puddles to form. With a tarp the little puddles freeze into little blocks of ice that grow into giant ice bergs. I have also never gotten a call from the boat yard after a snow storm and been told my shrink wrap blew off (I can't say the same about tarps).

I will grant that my tarp cover skills may not be up to par, but isnn't that another argument for shrink wrap?

Henry

 

[estebanj]

Insurance may be a factor as well. Your coverage may dictate that your boat is out of the water november-april. Check with your insurance company.

You don't mention the cost difference, but my choice would be out of the water. If you keep it in, do you live close by where you can go daily/weekly to check on the boat?

If you decide on water, check your zincs before the water gets too cold. If close to 50%, better to change them before winter.

Esteban

 

[goblue]

We store inside heated and this is the way to go if it's available. The boat stays clean and there is no mildew. You get wide temperature fluctuations storing outside and condensation can develop. This often results in mold and mildew problems.

 

[gerryb]

Sam, PLEASE get that beautiful 290 out of the water this winter. But good luck whatever you decide.

FWIW, No need to think about this one... I would winterize and put her inside with the standard cockpit cover.

 

[comsnark]

I would really be curious about the cost delta of "in water" vs "boatel". Both sound hideously expensive.

I agree that indoors with the cockpit cover on (especially if cliamate controlled) would be IDEAL. On the hard under a cover works. In water storage is asking for trouble IMHO.

(BTW: while many insurances have a specified lay-up period, I have I had two policies in two years, and layup was a non-issue)

Regarding tarps: Yes; they are not maintenance free. I had one blow off two years ago (from my sailboat) after a nor-easter. They probably should to be checked after storms (last year, I made final adjustment after xmas, and didn't go under again till April). If you support it properly, then puddles will NOT form. I have never had puddles on my sailboat. My SeaRay had two small puddles that wanted to form in the cockpit area: I will change the supports this year to eliminate that.

(BTW: Can you bring the boat to your house? Putting the boat in my yard last year was VERY pain free. I thought I was committed to yard storage for my boat due to a 9' 6" beam and lack of a trailer. Turns out that this is not a big deal for a Pro Hauler. Cost was $13/foot + ramp fee round trip for blocking, hauling, and relaunch. Check with your township if there are zoning restrictions on boats in your yard. My town has 28' x 10' as maximum)

 

[ANYTIME]

Is this a heated building (ie, can't freeze); or are you still subject to freezing? In the DC area, how often does it get below freezing? Even in an unheated building, it will take longer for a building interior to drop below 32F

Storing in the marina: Will the marina allow you to have an independent mechanic work on the boat? Or will they require you to do use *their* mechanics?

In terms of maintenance, it sounds like the dealer is doing the work regardless. Probably the same tech if he is traveling. The odds of each item being properly done is about 75% in either case. (Ok, I am a cynic).

Oh wait. . .are you talking about IN WATER storage? That can't be cheap either. Can you store it on land at the Marina? That would be far, far better. I bet the land is cheaper. They may be able to shrink wrap it cheaper as well.

Thanks for the information. Here is a little more information:

1. The building is NOT heated. It gets pretty cold on some days, will see a few days of below zero temperature. Winter median temperature will be in the mid to low 30s. The dealer service manager told me that the building interior gets pretty dusty/dirty, so the boat and cockpit cover will have to get cleaned up when we recommission her in the early spring.

2. The same mechanic that prepped the boat for delivery will more than likely be the one to do all maintenance, either at the dealer lot or at the marina. He is also the one who took care of warranty repairs after delivery...two relatively minor, unrelated problems. He is excellent and I have the utmost confidence in him.

3. Storing in the water at the marina is no extra charge. I have to pay the marina fees for the full year. Being that this is at a military base, it is MUCH CHEAPER than at a commercial marina. It costs less than half of what I would be paying if I kept Moondancer at the dealer's marina. If I don't pay the annual fee there, the base marina will offer my slip to the next person on the waiting list. I don't want that to happen. They don't have the facilities to haul the boat out of the water and transport it to blocks for storage there.

4. So far, from what I have heard, if we keep Moondancer at the marina, shrinkwrap looks like the way to go.

Sam...

 

[ANYTIME]

Insurance may be a factor as well. Your coverage may dictate that your boat is out of the water november-april. Check with your insurance company.

You don't mention the cost difference, but my choice would be out of the water. If you keep it in, do you live close by where you can go daily/weekly to check on the boat?

If you decide on water, check your zincs before the water gets too cold. If close to 50%, better to change them before winter.

Esteban

Esteban,

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my request for help.

1. I checked with Global Marine as the policy states that Moondancer "...shall be laid up and out of commission from 15 November until 01 April.... They told me that they would be happy to amend the policy to permit inwater storage if I provide the manufacturer and model of the bubblers at the marina.

2. The difference in cost will be the cost of storage for the winter at the dealer's facility ($1240.00) and blocking ($200.00) vs. $544.00 for shrinkwrapping for keeping at the marina. The difference is $896 which is nearly six months slip fee at the marina.

3. The zincs have been in the water since the first week of April in relative mild brackish water. We are about 70 miles up the Potomac River from the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. Do you think it makes sense to haul the boat just to check the zincs at 7 months, vs. the 12 month replacement scheduled for the recommissioning? If we keep Moondancer at the boatel, the zinc replacement will be done in November during the haulout and power washing.

4. It is not convenient at all to go the Quantico to check on the boat, especially when the weather gets below freezine. We live about 60 miles, of which 45 of those 60 miles are two lane road, and 15 of those 45 two lane road are narrow, hilly back roads.

Thanks again for your help !!!

 

[ANYTIME]

We store inside heated and this is the way to go if it's available. The boat stays clean and there is no mildew. You get wide temperature fluctuations storing outside and condensation can develop. This often results in mold and mildew problems.

This (mold and mildew) is something I never even considered. We really don't need this. Thank you for pointing this possibility out to me.

 

[ANYTIME]

(... Can you bring the boat to your house? Putting the boat in my yard last year was VERY pain free. I thought I was committed to yard storage for my boat due to a 9' 6" beam and lack of a trailer. Turns out that this is not a big deal for a Pro Hauler. Cost was $13/foot + ramp fee round trip for blocking, hauling, and relaunch. Check with your township if there are zoning restrictions on boats in your yard. My town has 28' x 10' as maximum)

Bringing Moondancer home is out of the question. If I do that, my tax-happy county (Culpeper County, Virginia) will tax me at 5.75% of the value of the boat. Keeping it in Prince William County (the dealer and Marine Base Quantico) is the only way to go as they do not tax recreational boats.

I really wouldn't want to store her here anyway, as even though we have more than an acre of land, I don't have a good place to park a vehicle that large here. The large house, inground pool and huge dog run for the crazy poodles takes up most of the space

Thanks for the suggestion, it was a good one !!!

 

[Skip]

Sam,
As you know I kept the 420DA in the water last year at Quantico. I found a good quality in the water shrink wrap guy for $15 per foot. This included placing moisture absorbent bags inside the cabin, (no mold or mildew at re-commissioning) a door to allow access on board, and the ability to get into the engine room when necessary. I intend to do precisely the same regimen this year. You will pay for your slip year round regardless of wether you occupy it or not; for me, paying twice for a slip and dry land storage simply made no sense. Another consideration for me-the knowledgeable Sea Ray owners and factory representatives I have discussed this with generally argue against dry land storage for boats like a 420DA. Unless blocked and braced precisely, the hull can take on a set or warp slightly. I used PWM for winterization and dry land storage of the 320DA when we owned it, and noticed that some hatches doors did not secure properly when we re-launched.
At the end of the day you need to determine if you will sleep soundly knowing your boat is properly winterized and covered in the water when the winter storms come up, or if you will be more comfortable with her on dry land. That is very much a personal choice.

regards
Skip

 

[comsnark]

Well. . .a 42 is admittedly a different beast. My boat is a 280SS, which is a close cousin to the 290 amberjack. In my area, many people would block my boat using the three point method. I did that last year, after some soul searching. This year, I am probably going to spring for the stands ($400-$500) and block under the keel.

Now I understand what your are talking about by keeping the boat in the water. Honestly, I don't see why you can't keep the boat in the water every year. I would pull the boat at least every other year. My family has been in this routine for the sailboat since. . .gosh. . 1980.

BUT. . .I would be a bit reluctant to do that with moondancer.

Now, blocking at the dealer for $1440 is an ABSURD price. But. . it is indoor. Which is a plus. I would throw a tarp over the boat while it is there to help keep your cover clean. I would also put the mildew bags in place. Outdoor storage in my area could easily be $600-$700. Plus your shrink wrap costs. That brings you to about $1200. Huh. That boattel doesn't sound so bad.

Is there any way you could store the boat on the hard at your marina? or in another marina in that area? A boat hauler won't care WHERE he puts the boat down.

 

[Escapade417]

Moondancer,

I kept my previous boat in the water every winter for the past 11 years. I live and boat in your area and have the same dealer. I bought an 04 320 this summer and she will stay in the water all winter. My marina has the bubblers and they work great. I would advice keeping it in the slip you are paying for. How you want to wrap it up, is up to you. But do use the mildew things. I use the pellet kind which collects the water in the bottom of the container. And it gets a lot.

 

[boatmailster]

?


I can't get my mind around shrinkwrapping. Besides the WASTE of the plastic, it is expensive. You dealer is charging, what, probably $750 to cover your boat right? I use a huge tarp. 30 x 20 for a 28' LOA boat. I have two support beam structures (one on the bow and one in the cockpit) made of cheap lumber to give it support and shape. Costs: $60 tarp. $10 in tiedown string (I don't fool around!). Lumber: $10 (and I reuse the lumber). Not perfect. . .but it works well enough.

QUOTE]

Try to cover color hull boat with tarp and you will spend thousands to restore scratched hull.
If you really want to protect your boat - shrink wrap or indoor storage is only way to go.
If you can handle price - the best way is to shrink wrap to bottom paint, if it is to expensive, color hull should be not covered - just shrink wrap to rubrail (shrink wrap needs to be taped right to stainless steel, don't forget to put nice coat of wax before winter to protect your color gel coat)
Tarp will make many fine scratches on hull and they are very visible on colored hulls (on white hull you will notice dull areas where tarp was hitting hull during windy winter days.

 

[ANYTIME]

Thanks to all for your insight and recommendations. :thumbsup:

We have decided that we will keep Moondancer at the Quantico Marina for the winter. We will have the engines, AC, Gen, Fresh Water systems, etc. winterized, strategically place pest strips in the line locker, cockpit and cabin, place mildew protection in the cockpit and cabin and shrinkwrap to the waterline.

We will ensure all seacocks are closed and will turn off the battery switches while keeping the shore power connected and battery charger active to ensure the bilges stay pumped out in the event of any water intrusion.

The contractor we are using is highly qualified and significantly less expensive than the dealer. Our marina uses floating docks, so that reduces the stress (on us), but we do plan on doubling up our mooring lines, just to be extra careful. He recommended that we take her out of the water in the spring to powerwash the bottom and change out the zincs because she was newly commissioned in April 2007. To do this at layup would be a waste of money (in his opinion).

I may have left something off this list, so please let me know so I can add it to my "to do" list.

We modified out layup location and dates with Global Marine/Zurich Insurance to be able to use Moondancer until the last day of November and recommission her on 24 March to extend our available time on the water. Now, if my aging back and knees will only cooperate :smt013!!

We hope to see some of you out on the Potomac this fall. Just look for a White 290AJ with a happy couple enjoying themselves (we just celebrated our 40th Wedding Anniversary this year :smt038).

 

[brian2001ss]

Great thread guys. Another question to add. I will be storing my boat in my climate controled garage this winter. Do you have to fog the cylinders if its stored in a heated garage? I wouldn't think so as long as I add some Stabil to the fuel.

When I summerize it, then the oils will get changed.

 

[chef_doctor]

It doesn't get cold enough here to justify a haul out and land storage. I leave my boat in the slip, winterize via PWM and use an engine compartment heater just for peace of mind. I also leave the bimini cover on since I like go to the boat during the winter and BS with friends. Never had problem 1.

 

[FYN409]

I personally would still fog them. Unless you climate controlled storage stays real warm, the fluctuations in outdoor temp can cause a lot of moisture on colder surfaces (engine block). I keep mine in my pole barn, I keep the heat no lower than 45 deg. but in the fall and spring when there are more wild temp swings, everything in my shop will sweat.

Just my 2 cents.

-Ryan

Great thread guys. Another question to add. I will be storing my boat in my climate controled garage this winter. Do you have to fog the cylinders if its stored in a heated garage? I wouldn't think so as long as I add some Stabil to the fuel.

When I summerize it, then the oils will get changed.

 

[dpvandy01]

You get wide temperature fluctuations storing outside and condensation can develop. This often results in mold and mildew problems.

I've used two large rubbermaid tubs in the cabin filled with Hamster/Cedar shaving (lids off). Eliminates the mold and mildew and makes the cabin smell fantastic in the spring!!