Winter project #1 windlass install, questions.

SCORPIO

SCORPIO

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2008
2,743
Delaware
Boat Info
1989 300 DA
Engines
Twin 5.7 Merc Alpha I
Now that I have my boat home for the winter and inside my shop, I'm starting to plan out my winter upgrades list. I want to install an windlass, the boat did not have one from the factory and the Admiral has TOLD me we NEED a windlass! With the Admirals blessing, I'm getting ready to do just that, but I have a number of questions.
First, is there any advantage/disadvantage to a vertical or horizontal windlass? I know the vertical units take up less deck space, but they need more fall in the locker and are more invasive to install than the horizontal. Does one style work better than another?
Second, for anyone with a windlass on their 300/340, could you post a pic of the unit as it is installed on deck?
Third, any recommendations either pro or con on brands? Right now I'm leaning toward a Lewmar Profish 1000 horizontal unit with 220' of chain/rope rode. I like the free fall feature. I see decent prices on these units on the net.
Fourth, how is the wiring routed from the engine room to the bow? I know there is a rigging tube that emerges under the V-berth and must enter the bilge somewhere. Any pointers here would be great.
Fifth, can I use the factory teak pulpit with a roller installed on it, or should I consider a longer pulpit, either teak or fiberglass?

Sorry for all the questions, but since this is going to be rather involved and I suspect expensive, I'd like to have some feedback to help me spend my money :smt001.
OK, lets see and hear from you guys?
 
The Admiral is right. You will love having the right windlass.
A reliable windlass is very important to me because I spend a lot of time on the hook. Sorry that I can't provide any pictures of the windlass install. I sold the boat early last June.
This was my experience with my 87 300 Sundancer:
The boat came with a Benson vertical rope only windlass that had seen much better days. Benson was no longer in business, parts weren't available, and the rope only was terrible.
I replaced it with a vertical free fall rope/chain windlass and made the mistake of cheaping out and going for a Powerwinch brand. I had nothing but problems with it from day one. Real junk!
Having a Lewmar horizontal on the 22' fishing boat I share with my Uncle and brother,, I was pretty familiar with it. Although much better quality than the piece of crap I had, it is still not without occasional problems. Lewmar customer support is good and has walked us through repairs over the phone a couple of times. I can't trash the brand, but I'm not in love with it either.
Anyway, a couple of years ago I decided to treat myself to a new windlass on the 300 Sundancer. I decided on a "Good F850 Freefall Rope/Chain" windlass. It was the best decision I ever made. The thing was absolutely bullet proof. It's a vertical windlass, which will mean a little more work for your install, but they have templates and starboard mounting plates that go between the unit and your wood pulpit. The price was a little bit higher, but well worth every penny to me. There was plenty of room for a 250' rode with 15' of chain in the rope locker and I never had a problem with it coiling properly. In fact, I never had a problem of any kind with the set up at all.
I just closed on a 2002 410 Sundancer the other day. It still has the original Lofrans which seems to be in good working order. But if I ever have to replace it I am not going to hesitate to get another "Good F850".
Whatever you decide on the wiring portion of the install is pretty simple. We used heavy gauge wire from the batteries to the windlass with the breaker mounted on the 2"x 4" deck support behind the batteries in the bilge. I can't remember the gauge, it was either 6 or 4, but it was much heavier than what Sea Ray had provided for the original windlass. I probably could have gotten away with the factory wire, but it is a long run and the heavier gauge compensated for voltage drop much better. My advice is to spend the extra money for the heavier wire. You'll be happy you did.
Using a snake to get the wires up behind the combing on the starboard side, then in to the cabin, and along the starboard side up to the rope locker was relatively painless. Removing the fridge made things easier. The control switch was at the helm, and the relay was mounted in the starboard side forward hanging locker for easy access. Removing the combing along the starboard side would make it even easier to run the wires. The combing is held on with "T" nuts mounted in it and held in place with 7/16" hex heads.
Overall you are probably looking at a good days work from start to finish. It will be time well spent.
 
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Great info, thanks very much! I will check into the Good 850. Did Sea Ray route their wire up the starboard side as well? I see a few holes in bulkheads that look to be for wire/cable runs to the bow. I was wondering what that rigging way under the V-berth was for? I thought it would be a nice straight shot from bilge to the bow, but don't know exactly how to access the aft end of it. I'll need to get down in the bilge with an inspection camera and see what I can find out.
 
John has the 300DA experience so I'll leave the model specifics to him.

I have a Good CFD windlass and I can't speak highly enough about the product and the people behind them. Tom Rice is the guy to talk to at Good. He can walk you thru any problem you are having as well as assist you with the decision making. One thing I love about my Good is that you are never surprised by a windlass that fails you while you are on the water. Their line handling system is simple and straightforward.......You have some warning. If the line starts slipping, then either the line is frayed or the spring/rollers in the windlass are worn and it is time to address the issue. One other thing I love is that you don't have work on a Good.......you send that puppy back to NJ and they rebuild it. Mine is 20 years old and it has been back to Tom twice.......once to upgrade the motor and gear set (no longer necessary since the design has changed to the revised motor and gear) and the second time was to have the line handling side rebuilt. I keep the Good shipping carton so I'm ready when I need to be. Their turn around in the winter is days 2-3 days; in the busy part of the year about a week.

Sea Ray did use Good as an OEM supplier until the company they are using "bought" the business by pretty much giving the windlasses to Brunswick. The Good was an option on the 300DA so there is an outside chance that some of the wiring may already be on your boat. Look all around inside the anchor locker for wiring pigtails..........2 large gauge wires and about 6 - 12-14ga wires of varying color. Look up under the deck with a mirror since that is most likely where they will be if they are there.

The question as to vertical or horizontal will boil down to the depth of the anchor locker. There must be a sizeable drop from the hause pipe on the windlass to where the rode will lay. Without enough drop under the deck, the line tangles and kinks very easily. It won't untangle itself; somebody will have to go to the locker and untangle it while somebody pulls in a little line to take the pressure off. The profile of most Sundancers is swept back making for a racy look but also very short drop in the rope locker. For that reason, you will probably want to avoid as much machinery below deck as you can. Good's design usually has the mechanism in a very small package on the deck with only the motor protruding below deck. That isn't an issue with Good because the motor is located of center away from the hole the line drops thru.

If you select a Good, you will want to use a Good line. They are specifically made to work well with the Good windlass and not fray. I anchor a lot (we use the boat 100-120 days per year) in fairly shallow water and I get 5-7 years out of an anchor line. I prefer a line only free drop windlass.....we are on a shallow sandy bottom and I use a Fortress FX-37 anchor. Scope is free so I let out 8-10:1 scope and the Fortress with line only holds like it is bolted to the bottom.

Last, The question of the roller/pulpit is probably made for you. Sea Ray builds a pad into the deck for mounting a windlass. The pad on my 450 is 1.5" of marine plywood encapsulated between fiberglass layers on top and bottom. Therefore, the boat is going to be strong enough to hold the windlass. An anchor roller keeps the line off the fiberglass and rub rail as the anchor is deployed and retreived. What roller assembly and how long it should be depends upon what anchor and how long its flutes are. You will want the anchor to come home and stop far enough from the hull so the fluted don't hit and scar the gelcoat. The one on my present boat is OEM and is a perfect fit.......the one on my old 390EC was way too short and had to be extended about 6". Much better to take your time here and find the right combination of windlass location forward/aft and the actual anchor you will use so you can both select and position the anchor roller.

Sea Ray has improved their wiring method for windlasses since the 80's. The boats all now have a relay in the bilge along with the breaker. The relay allows you to put a switch on the dash near the windlass control so you can power up or turn off all the current to the forward deck with a dash control. That is very easy to replicate with a continuous duty solenoid and will save you pulling heavy gauge wires to the panel. With a solenoid, you will make 2 wire pulls: one for 2 heavy gauge wires for + & - from the bilge to the windlass location and the other for bundle of wires for the switching relays located in the anchor locker. And. don't forget the foot switches for the bow.......They just parallel the wires from the panel and are very easy to wire. Sea Ray uses IMTRA foot switches......I got a set of replacements thru Jim at BOE.

Hope that helps..........and you don't consider my post either ignorant or arrogant!
 
Good were standard on Sea Rays sometime shortly after the 87 I had. Benson was standard in my year. Benson was a piece of crap.
Yes, Sea Ray did run the windlass wiring up to the bow on the starboard side, and although your boat didn't come with a windlass I'll bet they are there but they are something like 10 gauge which is pretty anemic and buried in the hull/deck joint behind the monkey fur seam. You could use it if you really wanted to but I didn't and wouldn't. You are much better off running something heavier yourself. It's time well spent and in the scheme of things it won't add a lot to your cost or time it takes to do the job. The strong windlass motor will like the heavier wire.
Once you pull out the fridge and remove the long combing piece alongside the helm seat and the smaller piece under it you'll have no problems using a snake to get you from the bilge to the bow.
Not believing in wasting an opportunity, I pulled my original wiring out in the closet, pulled what I could back from the bow while avoiding upsetting the headliner,
cut and tapped in to it, mounted a small fuse panel on the bulkhead in the closet with a 1/4" King Starboard backing plate, hooked it up to the original windlass wires, and then ran a couple of 12 volt receptacles off of it around the cabin for charging cell phones. I kept the breaker at the helm panel under the ignition switches and relabeled it "Cabin Outlets". You can put a 12 volt receptacle on the exterior wall of the closet for charging while sleeping in the V berth, and then run wiring under the V berth zip tied to the A/C bundle
to get to the port side of the cabin for a receptacle near the dinette.
I also used their rode which worked flawlessly with their free fall windlass.
"Good" is a family run business and absolutely fantastic to deal with. Although mine never gave me even the hint of a problem, everyone I've ever spoken to has said they really stand behind their products.
You may pay a little bit more but you'll be glad you did.
I almost never beleive in taking the cheaper route with things like this but in a weak moment on a tight budget I made that mistake with the first windlass I bought for that boat and paid for it in the long run with aggravation. That's why when it came time to correct my mistake I researched it thoroughly and went with what turned out to be the best.
 
Thanks to Frank and JVM225, that is a wealth of knowledge right there! I am now looking at Good units after the glowing testimonials you both have about them. I also appreciate the wire routing tips. I always run over sized wires for things like this to compensate for line loss and to prevent heating. I'll bet the wires are there some place but I'm not too concerned about that, I'll just pull new marine grade wire up to the bow so I know what I have. I figured on getting the rode from the windlass manufacturer to be certain it played well with their units. I want to put a fairly long roller set up on I think due to the short pulpit Sea Ray used. I've seen some pics on the net of similar boats and some had such short rollers that there was almost no room for the anchor to clear the gel coat. I don't need more work so a bit longer roller would be good insurance. Anybody know any dealers with good pricing on Good windlasses? That looks odd in print :) . Thanks again guys!
 
Thank you Frank, that is good to know. I will give them a call this week and see what I can work out. I'll keep everyone posted.
 
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On our installation we used a Maxwell vertical windlass and instead of foot pads on the bow I elected to use a mini remote keypad. I find this wonderful to be able to lean over the bow and raise and lower the anchor to clean off mud and debris.

On the dash we have Auto Anchor devise that measures the rode length and can also deploy and retrieve from there.

I would be happy to send you pictures if interested I can never figure out how to post them.
 
SCORPIO said:
Thanks to Frank and JVM225, that is a wealth of knowledge right there! I am now looking at Good units after the glowing testimonials you both have about them. I also appreciate the wire routing tips. I always run over sized wires for things like this to compensate for line loss and to prevent heating. I'll bet the wires are there some place but I'm not too concerned about that, I'll just pull new marine grade wire up to the bow so I know what I have. I figured on getting the rode from the windlass manufacturer to be certain it played well with their units. I want to put a fairly long roller set up on I think due to the short pulpit Sea Ray used. I've seen some pics on the net of similar boats and some had such short rollers that there was almost no room for the anchor to clear the gel coat. I don't need more work so a bit longer roller would be good insurance. Anybody know any dealers with good pricing on Good windlasses? That looks odd in print :) . Thanks again guys!
Click to expand...

Good also sells a great bow roller that works well with their windlass. I went for it.
 
I was given a Good Windlass which was in working order and plan on mounting it this season coming. Talked to the folks in New Jersey and there are very helpful along with website info.
 
Please post pictures of your install. Thanks.
 
QT1 said:
Please post pictures of your install. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Just sharing a response I had given to another windlass thread 3 months ago:


No response so I'm posting what I did on our 85 270DA for ideas:
On ours I took the anchor locker hatch away and replaced the existing pulpit with a longer one covering the opening. To securely attach and spread the windlass load; I used (3) bolts through the deck with a backing plate and (2) angles across the hatch opening. The angles "clamp" the aft end to the deck using the threaded rods from the windlass. I also wired the windlass with a reversing breaker so I can add controls on the deck at a later date.

picture2.jpg


The new teak pulpit was made by Ship Shop Marine Carpentry in Fort Pierce Florida (772-215-9925). They did an excellent job for about half the price I found anywhere else in the country. I finished it with 5 coats of Epifanes Wood Finish Gloss.

I have 30 feet of chain and 300 feet of 8 plait rode. The 8 plait is more flexible and falls into the smaller locker better. I'm guessing the 250DA locker is limited in size too.

I got a deal on the windlass but it still cost me about $1,700 all together with the wiring and new pulpit.
We often anchor in 200 feet of water while fishing so it was definitely worth it.
 
Wow! That is a work of art!
 
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