Wind gave me fits docking my 39 EC today.

[Bel_Mar_Pointe]

I thought he said that the wind was blowing toward the dock? This is similar to a problem that I experienced a couple of weeks ago when I launched, and I'd be interested in getting advice. The boat was tied off to a wall with a 15-20 MPH wind blowing the boat against the wall (see picture). I had my buddy try giving the bow a good shove, but the wind just pushed it back and also drove the aft into the wall. We then tried pushing the aft off while applying reverse port power and were able to get off the wall by having my buddy walk along the bow and keep the bow from repeatedly banging, but it was not pretty. Is there a better way to do this with a spring line? I have a boat full of girls, and they are not as agile as my buddy.

Tie the port stern to the dock, put the starboard engine in forward and the bow will turn into the wind. I was in the same situation last week.[/quote]

This makes sense but I'm a visual learner and I'm visualizing my starboard stern getting intimate with the wall. I have not tried or witnessed this manuever...what's the trick to protect the starboard stern? A little slack in the rope? 24" fenders? Is this the best method for a crowded dock? I have used a springline from the bow to spin my aft out and back away but I would like to try this suggestion.

 

[CAMELLA]

This makes sense but I'm a visual learner and I'm visualizing my starboard stern getting intimate with the wall. I have not tried or witnessed this manuever...what's the trick to protect the starboard stern? A little slack in the rope? 24" fenders? Is this the best method for a crowded dock? I have used a springline from the bow to spin my aft out and back away but I would like to try this suggestion.[/quote]
In my situation the stern stayed clear of the dock, I didn't have much slack in the stern line. Shift the port engine in forward slightly if the port stern starts to get to close to the dock. I not saying this is the correct way but it worked like a charm for me.

 

[Alex F]

How would Skyhook do anything helpful in this situation?

Joystick control may de-skill handling to some degree, but I can't see how holding position would do anything helpful given that you still have to relocate the boat to get it into a slip and that Skyhook is limited to the accuracy limits inherent in the GPS system. Plus or minus 3 ft. (assuming WAAS or Differential) has the potential to get you into as much trouble as the wind causes.

Technology isn't always the answer.......we still have to make the boat go where we need it to be.

Very good point Frank. I was also thinking that this is almost like driving a car with emergency break on. Not sure you why one would attempt this method.

Also I would think that people tha get the joystick option either don't have or have limited knowledge to begin with. On the other hand, now days everyone drives cars with automatic transmission (very seldom you see stick shift cars), so as the jystick technology builds it's way in to the market (reliability, cost of ownership and maintenance wise) this could be the future big thing for most boaters.

 

[fwebster]

Having run a couple of boat with joystick controls and realizing the huge committment Sea Ray/Brunswick is making to both Zeus and Axiius control packages I don't think there is much doubt that we'll see lots of future boats with joystick control.

I'm just getting a "no-compute" in my own mind about the cost. It is hard to make a comparison of the cost of a Zeus to a non-Zeus boat because the hulls are designed around the pod drive system. All I know is that the 43DA Zeus boat's real selling price is about $300K more than the 44DA it replaced.

It appears that, with almost no demand for new boats and very scarce marine financing options, the market timing for almost doubling the price of boats for the sake of new technology couldn't be worse............and that doesn't even speak to the potential issue of the product not being fully market ready.

 

[rondds]

Technology isn't always the answer.......we still have to make the boat go where we need it to be.

Frank - I recall saying this one time a few years back and you calling me a "Luddite." ;-)

 

[fwebster]

Ron,

It was the other Frank (FC3) that called you a luddite........I'm from the south and if I called you a name, there would be no chance for you to misinterpret what I meant.

I know this because Frank calls me a luddite on a regular basis whenever I describe new technology "gee-whizz" ..........and luddite has more than 4 letters.

 

[Asureyez]

I'm just getting a "no-compute" in my own mind about the cost. It is hard to make a comparison of the cost of a Zeus to a non-Zeus boat because the hulls are designed around the pod drive system. All I know is that the 43DA Zeus boat's real selling price is about $300K more than the 44DA it replaced.

quote]

What stuns me in this price increase is that these power and propulsion units are much cheaper to factory install. The commitment to a new system is as much lower production costs as it is snazz.

I suspect that the Mfg appeal to these systems is also that they promise to dumb down yatching skill required to operate a larger vessel and hence drive up consumer confidence and widen the market of people willing to blow a mil+ on a bigger boat.

I do susect thay will be able to remove 12-15 pages from Boaters FY marital dialouge manual supplied with SR's over 40 feet.

 

[sbw1]

sbw1,
Did I get it right, your tiara has keel? Inever herd a power boat with a keel.
why, for extra stability? how does it help in cross winds?

Yes. It has a keel. There is a pic in my photo album of both boats. The side shot of the Tiara shows the keel. It's about 12" deep beneath the arch and vents. It just adds resistance when the wind tries to push the boat sideways while it is underway. Night and day difference in the handling of the two boats.

 

[sbw1]

Tie the port stern to the dock, put the starboard engine in forward and the bow will turn into the wind. I was in the same situation last week.

This makes sense but I'm a visual learner and I'm visualizing my starboard stern getting intimate with the wall. I have not tried or witnessed this manuever...what's the trick to protect the starboard stern? A little slack in the rope? 24" fenders? Is this the best method for a crowded dock? I have used a springline from the bow to spin my aft out and back away but I would like to try this suggestion.[/QUOTE]

Re-read the original post. Slip is north/south orientation with dock on starboard side. Wind is from the east.

Spring lines are generally the first to be secured and give you the most control in most conditions.

In the situation you describe, when you are being pushed against the wall, I would push the aft of the boat off the wall while adding forward power to the port engine, followed by reverse power on the starboard side to start the pivot. I would then pull the port out of gear and maybe add a little reverse and then add a little extra power to the starboard and a little power to port. Then add a little shot of port forward power. As the boat becomes perpendicular to the wall I would put both engines in reverse and back clear. Once clear, I back down or pivot the bow into the wind depending on local conditions. You just need to practice this stuff until you can do it in your sleep.

 

[rondds]

Frank
A THOUSAND pardons! I've met and actually hung out with FrankC since that comment and didn't get a chance to give him s*#t about it. I most certainly will now!

 

[sb in gp]

In the situation you describe, when you are being pushed against the wall, I would push the aft of the boat off the wall while adding forward power to the port engine, followed by reverse power on the starboard side to start the pivot. I would then pull the port out of gear and maybe add a little reverse and then add a little extra power to the starboard and a little power to port. Then add a little shot of port forward power. As the boat becomes perpendicular to the wall I would put both engines in reverse and back clear. Once clear, I back down or pivot the bow into the wind depending on local conditions. You just need to practice this stuff until you can do it in your sleep.

We tried this approach, but the wind was blowing so hard that the bow was being driven into the wall and would have banged hard on several piling before I was clear (without intervention from my buddy). Of course a more experienced pilot may have been able to make it work. The spring line on the port stern cleat with starboard thrust seems to be a good solution. I'll practice that in the marina when I have some time. Thanks.

 

[sbw1]

We tried this approach, but the wind was blowing so hard that the bow was being driven into the wall and would have banged hard on several piling before I was clear (without intervention from my buddy). Of course a more experienced pilot may have been able to make it work. The spring line on the port stern cleat with starboard thrust seems to be a good solution. I'll practice that in the marina when I have some time. Thanks.

Getting off a wall you are being pushed against requires some getting used to. It's one of the more difficult slow speed handling situations. Still, practice makes it routine.

 

[Chris R]

Very good point Frank. I was also thinking that this is almost like driving a car with emergency break on. Not sure you why one would attempt this method.

Also I would think that people tha get the joystick option either don't have or have limited knowledge to begin with. On the other hand, now days everyone drives cars with automatic transmission (very seldom you see stick shift cars), so as the jystick technology builds it's way in to the market (reliability, cost of ownership and maintenance wise) this could be the future big thing for most boaters.

Thank you.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Skyhook is the answer to the original post, but seriously...why not embrace the technology if it's available and you can afford it.

Yes, of course, technology is a matter of dollars, choice and preference. However, I can drive my 68 military spec M-715 five quarter ton truck, then jump in my Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton (or my S-Type R Jaguar) and will tell ya, technology advancements are a good thing! Yes, I feel "good" that I have mastered a manual tranny while rock climbing on a steep hill in my 3 speed CJ-5...but, when it comes to something that costs as much as a house, and moves, I want the latest technology in everything. Next boat for sure!

Simply my opinion....

 

[fwebster]

On the "next boat for sure" idea about newest technology, let me pose this question to you:

You have an '08 340DA that had a retail price of say $325K with electronics and a few options. Would you have paid $600K for the same boat just to get some new unproven technology?

 

[Jill4feet]

Hi, We have trouble docking sometimes in our 38' Sundancer because we also have to back in our boat too. Sometimes it takes us also a couple of times of doing it.

The one way i've seen that stops this is that new boat "joysick" technology like the Zeus. I test drove one myself at a boat show and it was amazing. I can't wait to upgrade to it. With this technology the boat moves side to side and responds totally and it doesn't matter at all if there is wind.

 

[Chris R]

On the "next boat for sure" idea about newest technology, let me pose this question to you:

You have an '08 340DA that had a retail price of say $325K with electronics and a few options. Would you have paid $600K for the same boat just to get some new unproven technology?

No. Yet, when I see the new 43 going for the mid-7's, then that makes some sense (compared to a 600K 340) - not that this in our budget any time soon. And to your point, if I was in the market for a boat in the 6-700K range, and my choice is a 43 with pods and a 48 with current technology drives, etc., then I'm going with the 48. I am somewhat realistic and not foolish.

Personally, I'm excited about the new technology that's becomming standard fare on boats of the future. So...when the next boat purchase happens, it will pretty much be the "norm".

I'm reminded of my first Dodge Cummins in '98- I was a member of a Cummins owners forum (mainly light duty truck owners) similar to CSR. When the new 24 valve electronic injector pump Cummins came out, the 12 valve guys were talking smack about how that was not a "real Cummins" and would never have the power, or longevity, of the old school Cummins. And, you would be a fool to buy one. Well, looking back, (compared to the new 6.7's) that "old" Cummins motor is like comparing a tractor to a Ferrari.

 

[Bajan]

No. Yet, when I see the new 43 going for the mid-7's, then that makes some sense (compared to a 600K 340) - not that this in our budget any time soon. And to your point, if I was in the market for a boat in the 6-700K range, and my choice is a 43 with pods and a 48 with current technology drives, etc., then I'm going with the 48. I am somewhat realistic and not foolish.

Personally, I'm excited about the new technology that's becomming standard fare on boats of the future. So...when the next boat purchase happens, it will pretty much be the "norm".

I'm reminded of my first Dodge Cummins in '98- I was a member of a Cummins owners forum (mainly light duty truck owners) similar to CSR. When the new 24 valve electronic injector pump Cummins came out, the 12 valve guys were talking smack about how that was not a "real Cummins" and would never have the power, or longevity, of the old school Cummins. And, you would be a fool to buy one. Well, looking back, (compared to the new 6.7's) that "old" Cummins motor is like comparing a tractor to a Ferrari.

As the new technology (Zeus) becomes more mainstream, the cost will come down also!

 

[pierseverance]

I took my 390 to Confedration Basin Marina in Kingston, Ontario. Your right, your butt puckers every time I go in there. The wind is rolling off the lake and the spacing between dock stringers is tight. The people gather their lawn chairs and sit around the dock to watch the crash! I found if you use a little power and spin the stern into the wind the momentum helps you back in to the slip. Anyway, no crash at my dock and so the crowd moved on to watch the next victim! Sometimes all the practice in the world doesn't prepair you for the wind in in someone else's marina.

 

[sprink56]

Well 2 weeks later I went out yesterday and the wind was blowing a steady 20~25 mph out of the east...Small Craft Advisory in Effect.
We stayed inside and had a nice day...headed back into the marina and the old pucker factor came back. This time I eased up to my slip and "crabbed" right in using transmission only. I put the starboard stern corner up against a piling, gave it reverse starboard and port forward and swung around to starboard ever so slightly...went to neutral both screws. The wind picked me up and we moved to port away from the pile. As soon as I cleared the pile I put both screws in reverse for about 3 seconds...back to neutral then just a bump to forward to slow the rearward motion. We made the lines fast and we were done!! Practice makes perfect.:thumbsup:

Now I'm looking at a possible move to a 2000 46DA. I'm thinking with more boat in the water and diesels this might be easier.:huh:

 

[electricaldoctor]

I took my 390 to Confedration Basin Marina in Kingston, Ontario. Your right, your butt puckers every time I go in there. The wind is rolling off the lake and the spacing between dock stringers is tight. The people gather their lawn chairs and sit around the dock to watch the crash! I found if you use a little power and spin the stern into the wind the momentum helps you back in to the slip. Anyway, no crash at my dock and so the crowd moved on to watch the next victim! Sometimes all the practice in the world doesn't prepair you for the wind in in someone else's marina.

Please take a moment to set up your signature. We boat out of Ed Huck Marine at Rockport, Ontario. I agree with you about Confederation Basin at Kingston. It can be exciting at times & could those slips be any narrower??

~ Ken