What would you do to revive the US economy?

[Steve S]

I agree MM. My take on it "It is all the Republican's fault" because of taxes.

 

[Woody]

I have heard many with families collect welfare too and that is letting them down in my book.

I thought that post # 256 would get some discussion. MM

I remember post #256 when it was hiting everyones in box a while back, I think that was right after the one that said all congressmen pay no SS, get free health care for life and can draw full retirement if they work a yr.:lol:

 

[comsnark]

I have heard many with families collect welfare too and that is letting them down in my book.

I thought that post # 256 would get some discussion. MM

Yeah. . . . I remember this post. It sounded like one of those really cooked up examples that Gary likes to make -> you know, where the 50K income just breaches another higher tax tier (never mind that income below this level is taxed at a lower rate), where it is a given that your personal doctor with Blue Cross provides no better care than a free clinic, where you actually do make $15/hr "under the table", etc. etc. etc.

I just didn't have time to dig into numbers and call B.S.

 

[MonacoMike]

Yeah. . . . I remember this post. It sounded like one of those really cooked up examples that Gary likes to make -> you know, where the 50K income just breaches another higher tax tier (never mind that income below this level is taxed at a lower rate), where it is a given that your personal doctor with Blue Cross provides no better care than a free clinic, where you actually do make $15/hr "under the table", etc. etc. etc.

I just didn't have time to dig into numbers and call B.S.

Who says the piece is 100% true? It is like a joke: for it to be funny there must be an element of truth and there is in the example provided. Also it illustrates how many taxpayers and hardworking people feel. MM

 

[Woody]

Who says the piece is 100% true? It is like a joke: for it to be funny there must be an element of truth and there is in the example provided.The setting of this is CA, about it I don't know but generally speaking of Jose illegal which items are the truth? Also it illustrates how many taxpayers and hardworking people feel. How does it do that, I can only be sure of the feelings of two people, the person that created it and you because you posted it here. MM

:huh:

 

[MonacoMike]

Who says the piece is 100% true? It is like a joke: for it to be funny there must be an element of truth and there is in the example provided.The setting of this is CA, about it I don't know but generally speaking of Jose illegal which items are the truth? Also it illustrates how many taxpayers and hardworking people feel. How does it do that, I can only be sure of the feelings of two people, the person that created it and you because you posted it here. :huh:

Who says you can "be sure of the feelings" of one because they wrote or posted something? It was intended as a discussion point, when posted, not as my personal feelings. But, alas, no one wishes to discuss the merits of it. It would not have been so prolifically emailed if it didn't " touch a nerve with "many taxpayers and hardworking people" MM

 

[Woody]

Who says the piece is 100% true? It is like a joke: for it to be funny there must be an element of truth and there is in the example provided. Also it illustrates how many taxpayers and hardworking people feel. MM

Who says you can "be sure of the feelings" of one because they wrote or posted something? It was intended as a discussion point, when posted, not as my personal feelings. But, alas, no one wishes to discuss the merits of it. It would not have been so prolifically emailed if it didn't " touch a nerve with "many taxpayers and hardworking people" MM

Well there you go, that's what I'm wondering.
You posted it for discussion and I asked a question...which parts are true?:huh:

 

[comsnark]

Who says the piece is 100% true? It is like a joke: for it to be funny there must be an element of truth and there is in the example provided. Also it illustrates how many taxpayers and hardworking people feel. MM

How to revive the US economy: people need to stop providing "examples" that are designed to drive a political point, but are basically fantasy.

 

[MonacoMike]

Well there you go, that's what I'm wondering.
You posted it for discussion and I asked a question...which parts are true?:huh:

Based on reports by our fellow members quite a bit of it comes true: http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/47865-Am-I-an-Moron-or-what

 

[MonacoMike]

Well there you go, that's what I'm wondering.
You posted it for discussion and I asked a question...which parts are true?:huh:

Let's do it one at a time:

The premise: You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
"NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Seems plausable to me for anybody working "out of the system". MM

 

[bigblockcutlass]

What was the Question? What would you do to revive the US economy? We know the the US can not continue to support all the people waiting for handouts.

Here's something to think about, an old guy (now died) told me the reason we have welfare is to keep people rioting in Detroit.

 

[MonacoMike]

What was the Question? What would you do to revive the US economy? We know the the US can not continue to support all the people waiting for handouts.

Here's something to think about, an old guy (now died) told me the reason we have welfare is to keep people rioting in Detroit.

He is not the only one with that opinion. It is often expressed as using welfare to keep the poor on a "welfare reservation" ready to do agitation (political dirty work) to keep the so called benefactors in power. MM

 

[neffy85]

It probably works like this:

"You have 2 families..."Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have 2
parents, 2 children and live in California. "Joe Legal" works in
construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with
payroll taxes deducted...."Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has
"NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per
year.

Now take 30% away for state federal tax, Joe Legal now has $31,231.00

Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per
year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00

Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00
per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00

Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00

Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare.
Joe Legal pays for food $1,000.00 per month, $12,000.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $7,231.00

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and
Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,000.00 per month. $12,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00

Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays rent. $500.00 per month. $6,000.00 per year Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school
ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services,
but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay."

There are many problems with this scenario, but I will start with the racial undertone of the names chosen...
As far as my business goes, jose and joe both pay the same taxes, etc. because I make sure they are deducted at the required rates. No one receives cash payments. They both have the same required documents.
The difference is Jose shows up on time and ready to work everyday. Joe, on the other hand, has to leave early once a week, shows up late almost daily, and will eventually just not show up. Never to be seen again unless I read about him in the local paper for drug trafficking.
Therefore Jose does end up with more money at the end of the year.
This country has literally been built by immigrants that are willing to do the work that "Americans" won't. These "immigrants" are now looked upon as hard working Americans.
I received 60 applications for 2 openings earlier this year. I only filled one position and he lasted 2 months before he didn't show up. My "Jose's" only missed when they took vacation time that they earned.
I would hire 20 Jose's to 1 joe because they would be dependable.

 

[Woody]

There are many problems with this scenario, but I will start with the racial undertone of the names chosen...
As far as my business goes, jose and joe both pay the same taxes, etc. because I make sure they are deducted at the required rates. No one receives cash payments. They both have the same required documents.
The difference is Jose shows up on time and ready to work everyday. Joe, on the other hand, has to leave early once a week, shows up late almost daily, and will eventually just not show up. Never to be seen again unless I read about him in the local paper for drug trafficking.
Therefore Jose does end up with more money at the end of the year.
This country has literally been built by immigrants that are willing to do the work that "Americans" won't. These "immigrants" are now looked upon as hard working Americans.
I received 60 applications for 2 openings earlier this year. I only filled one position and he lasted 2 months before he didn't show up. My "Jose's" only missed when they took vacation time that they earned.
I would hire 20 Jose's to 1 joe because they would be dependable.

The scenario does state that Jose pays no taxes but that is one of the misconceptions. Attempts to identify how many pay in are estimates only but usually run near 50-70%.

 

[MonacoMike]

There are many problems with this scenario, but I will start with the racial undertone of the names chosen...
As far as my business goes, jose and joe both pay the same taxes, etc. because I make sure they are deducted at the required rates. No one receives cash payments. They both have the same required documents.
The difference is Jose shows up on time and ready to work everyday. Joe, on the other hand, has to leave early once a week, shows up late almost daily, and will eventually just not show up. Never to be seen again unless I read about him in the local paper for drug trafficking.
Therefore Jose does end up with more money at the end of the year.
This country has literally been built by immigrants that are willing to do the work that "Americans" won't. These "immigrants" are now looked upon as hard working Americans.
I received 60 applications for 2 openings earlier this year. I only filled one position and he lasted 2 months before he didn't show up. My "Jose's" only missed when they took vacation time that they earned.
I would hire 20 Jose's to 1 joe because they would be dependable.

I did not write the example and it was part of a discussion on illegal immigration, NOT LEGAL immigration. I used it to illustrate what can be gained not working or working in the underground economy. Maybe at your business both pay taxes, but as evidenced by the busts that have occured it often does not happen. (Busts that the current administration has suspended.) You are far from the first business owner that has shared similar sentiments about the quality of applicants they find when they have open positions. MM

 

[Woody]

I did not write the example and it was part of a discussion on illegal immigration, NOT LEGAL immigration. I used it to illustrate what can be gained not working or working in the underground economy. Maybe at your business both pay taxes, but as evidenced by the busts that have occured it often does not happen. (Busts that the current administration has suspended.) You are far from the first business owner that has shared similar sentiments about the quality of applicants they find when they have open positions. MM

I don't know what neffy was refering to, legal or illegal, but it could be either. Obama changed the how and who but there are still busts. He has put the emphasis on the employeers of illegals rather than the illegals themselves.

 

[MonacoMike]

I don't know what neffy was refering to, legal or illegal, but it could be either. Obama changed the how and who but there are still busts. He has put the emphasis on the employeers of illegals rather than the illegals themselves.

The near death of the new housing market has eliminated a lot of the jobs that could be had for cash. The busts I saw usually were businesses hiring not individuals. This WP article also expands on this subject but I will not. I want to get back on topic of the economy and will not post further on immigration. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rder-plummet/2011/12/02/gIQA6Op8PO_story.html MM

 

[Woody]

The near death of the new housing market has eliminated a lot of the jobs that could be had for cash. The busts I saw usually were businesses hiring not individuals. This WP article also expands on this subject but I will not. I want to get back on topic of the economy and will not post further on immigration. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rder-plummet/2011/12/02/gIQA6Op8PO_story.html MM

I didn't think we were talking immigration I thought you posted the Jose thing to illustrate the freeloading parasite theory.

 

[D-Sill-D]

How can you dialogue around the economy and not give ample consideration to legal and illegal immigration?

The office towers within blocks of my home are filled with legal immigrants writing code for very serious salaries.

 

[MonacoMike]

. I used it to illustrate what can be gained not working or working in the underground economy. MM

I didn't think we were talking immigration I thought you posted the Jose thing to illustrate the freeloading parasite theory.

That is correct, although it seemed headed off topic. MM