What would you do to revive the US economy?

We aren't doint ourselves any favors these days. Read aboutt he story of a foundry that has been in operation on Minneapolis for almost 90 years.
http://www.startribune.com/business/133718993.html

Owner Neil Ahlstrom, who started as a laborer on the shop floor at Smith Foundry in 1961, today works cautiously at the intersection of Old Industrial and New Age Minneapolis.
Smith Foundry is the last iron-casting plant around the abandoned railroad line that was converted to the Midtown Greenway, a bike-and-pedestrian trail that has dovetailed with tens of millions worth of apartment and condo buildings, office and retail space on the city's redeveloping south side.
Ahlstrom, 67, fears that city elders want to banish Smith Foundry. He's had to cope with a rezoning that's made it more expensive to make improvements and likely will inhibit the eventual sale of the business as he contemplates retirement. Oh, and there's the new city noise ordinance, as well.
But in a town that preaches "green," Smith Foundry recycles 30 tons of metal daily. It is mixed with sand and cast into the basic building blocks of the automobiles, farm equipment and hundreds of other pieces of consumer and industrial equipment for 300 manufacturing customers including 3M, Pentair, Tennant and Graco.
"We've tried to be a good neighbor over the years," Ahlstrom said of the business, near Cedar Avenue and 28th Street, that employs 10 administrative staff and 70 blue-collar workers at up to $23 an hour, plus benefits. "The bottom line is that we are now a 'nonconforming use' in this location."
Ahlstrom acknowledges that heavy industry within the city is on the wane.
"I can understand that somebody might want this land to be a park. That's not my reality."
The new zoning, and new city ordinances covering noise and vibration, don't necessarily doom Smith Foundry. But they are making survival more expensive and the future uncertain for an 88-year-old neighborhood enterprise.
"The city is not trying to shut down this foundry," said Council Member Gary Schiff. "This business can continue to operate. Neil has made good-faith efforts [on some recent noise-ordinance issues]. He's hired people locally and has a good name in the community. But if you were planning the city today, you would not put [a foundry] in the middle of that neighborhood. You would put it in a heavy-industry zone."
Ahlstrom, who has gotten community kudos for hiring ex-felons and recovering addicts from a neighboring halfway house, shakes his head. But his strong-back-and-dirty-hands factory, which will generate a record $12 million in revenue this year, is not in vogue in a town where the mayor last week was hailing growth of the service sector. And neighborhood-based manufacturing has declined in Minneapolis for years, partly by design.
Several problems threaten the company, Ahlstrom believes.
In 2008, Ahlstrom bought a new, 40-ton sand tank to replace a smaller, 50-year-old tank that stores the tons of sand used daily in the iron-making process. The new tank, which cost about $80,000, is still sitting at the manufacturer. It can't be erected because of the rezoning.
Ahlstrom didn't realize that until he applied for a building permit this spring to make improvements.
After numerous meetings, city staff decided to accommodate the new tank, but only if Hennepin County, which owns the Greenway, would grant the company a permanent easement on a strip of land several feet outside the company's property line. That's where two legs of the existing sand tank sit.
Kristin Guild, a city economic development manager, said Hennepin County, which has the right to terminate an existing land lease, wouldn't grant a permanent easement because it wants control of the Greenway, part of which may be converted to a trolley line that could link the nearby Hiawatha light rail line and one planned to the west.
Ahlstrom has decided to sell the new tank at a loss and improvise a new sand-delivery system that will cost up to an additional $60,000. Meanwhile, he wants to install a pollution-cutting dust-collection system, which also is subject to public hearing because of the rezoning.
And he's still negotiating a $35,000-plus system to mitigate noise-and-vibration issues, initially raised by a homeowner who moved nearby in 2010. Schiff said the plant couldn't meet a new noise ordinance, passed in 2009, and intended to address noisy bars downtown that were irritating residential neighbors.
Schiff concedes that Ahlstrom is a victim of "unintended consequences" and credits Ahlstrom with "great strides reducing the noise." But the foundry still fails one of four tests mandated by the new ordinance.
"The idea was that everything along the Greenway eventually would become residential," Ahlstrom said. "We were in an industrial-preservation zone. But we got rezoned. And now we seem to be without a place to exist and grow."
 
rickyp52 said:
"Quit protecting the Unions with collective bargining agreements, etc. (sorry Pack)

So continuing in the same direction we've been going i.e. union busting and the further erosion of the middle class is part of your solution. And your statement doesn't quite make sense anyway. If you're saying do away with unions altogether than say it. Without a collective bargaining agreement there would be no union. And please explain what "etc." means or consists of. How else are unions protected in your opinion?
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Sorry, I should have been a little more specific. Yes, I think Unions need to go. Their positive influence in the workforce is no longer. The days of 80 hour workweeks for $2 a week in a dangerous environment are over. There are laws in place now a days to keep the workers safe. There are also all kinds of laws that protect the workers from just about everything else that could happen to them.

If you don't like your pay, benefits, etc., go work somewhere else. Unfortunately, Unions end up "protecting" the non-productive along with all the other hard working folks they represent and they drive up prices. Heck in some Union protected areas, you can't even use a contractor that is non-union. In the end, the Union bosses get rich and the consumer pays more (or end up buying less product).

Sorry, rickyP, as I recall from previous threads, you are a big Union guy so didn't mean to offend. I just feel like if a worker is tired of their company they should be able to leave and if the worker is not being productive the company should be able to get rid of them. Why is it that Union folks don't seem to think they can make it on their own without a Union? Do you really feel like you get your money's worth out of them? I have never been a Union member so I have no experience being represented by a Union.
 
jason78 said:
Sorry, I should have been a little more specific. Yes, I think Unions need to go. Their positive influence in the workforce is no longer. The days of 80 hour workweeks for $2 a week in a dangerous environment are over. There are laws in place now a days to keep the workers safe. There are also all kinds of laws that protect the workers from just about everything else that could happen to them.

If you don't like your pay, benefits, etc., go work somewhere else. Unfortunately, Unions end up "protecting" the non-productive along with all the other hard working folks they represent and they drive up prices. Heck in some Union protected areas, you can't even use a contractor that is non-union. In the end, the Union bosses get rich and the consumer pays more (or end up buying less product).

Sorry, rickyP, as I recall from previous threads, you are a big Union guy so didn't mean to offend. I just feel like if a worker is tired of their company they should be able to leave and if the worker is not being productive the company should be able to get rid of them. Why is it that Union folks don't seem to think they can make it on their own without a Union? Do you really feel like you get your money's worth out of them? I have never been a Union member so I have no experience being represented by a Union.
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:thumbsup::smt038 I'm right there Jason!
 
I assume all you protectionist people (or people that don't have a clue what IP is) don't buy Apple products? If any of you, or your family, have an iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iMac (all not belonging to the iUnion), then you are a hypocrite.
 
Four Suns said:
I assume all you protectionist people (or people that don't have a clue what IP is) don't buy Apple products? If any of you, or your family, have an iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iMac (all not belonging to the iUnion), then you are a hypocrite.
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They are probably like Al Gore and his ilk: Do as I say not as I do, and want to impose these things on us instead of walking the walk themselves. MM
 
Most of us can probably agree that we need austerity measures in our country including closing loopholes in the tax code for ALL (corporations, rich and "refunds" to folks that pay no taxes, years of unemployment checks) I know of no one here advocating special treatment for anyone, many for us think taxes are to high and provide incentive to hide money in tax shelters.

Jason is on track, Unions have done their job and are not needed. A fact supported by the fact that even though unions solicit new members few take them up on it and they are losing membership. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/business/22union.html If looked at one way the many of current auto workers (not FORD) are one of the largest recipients of welfare out there. They have a job and lifestyle they feel entitled to even though they have enjoyed pay and benefits way above their market value and continued by our tax dollars. Georgia State's Barry Hirsch, an employment economist, quoted from Reason Magazine: "explains that, in 2006, union workers made about 19 percent more than non-unionized workers and that such a premium can exist when productivity and hence profits are higher. The productivity advantages of unionized firms are scant, Hirsch says. The formula worked, because many heavily unionized industries were dominated by a few large firms with similar labor costs. These could be recovered in higher prices." It just doesn't work in todays world.

I have pondered if part of union support of Obamacare was because they do not have enough money in many of the union ran funds to cover the promises made to their members. They can make a show of contributing $30 million to the new government health and pension funds while the taxpayers take on the $30 billion obligation while our socialist media fail to report and the uneducated publics eyes glaze over at the difference millions and billions.

I know some union members that drink the Kool-aid and some that ask why the UAW would support a presidential candidate that wrote a book calling for the elimination of the very product they build. MM
 
Ka1oxd said:
I guess there is 1 US Senator that does not want to get re-elected. HE just issued a report showing how the rich get breaks and that the loop holes were crafted for them

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=bb1c90bc-660c-477e-91e6-91c970fbee1f
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I just read his report and don't see that it shows "loopholes crafted for them". What I see is tax code that applies to me and I don't have a 1mil/yr AGI. The report complains about SS, if they paid in they should be able to draw out don't you think. Tax code would allow me to deduct mortgage interest on a vacation home(boat), why can't they? The code allows me to deduct gambling losses, with limitations, why can't they? Child care credits, etc...come on. Farm subsidies...hey, if they meet the criteria(like alot of others do) go for it. The guys a bit of a rebel and I hope is only suggesting tax code changes, rather than emphasizing the evil rich, I'm afraid that's what this report will look like to many.
 
Who are the rich anyway??? MM

From Thomas Sowell:

"Currently we are hearing a lot in the media and in politics about the "top one percent" of income earners who are supposedly getting an ever-increasing share of the nation's income. That is absolutely true if you are talking about income brackets. It is totally untrue if you are talking about actual flesh and blood people.
The Internal Revenue Service can follow individual people over the years because they can identify individuals from their Social Security numbers. During recent years, when "the top one percent" as an income category has been getting a growing share of the nation's income, IRS data show that actual flesh and blood people who were in the top one percent in 1996 had their incomes go down -- repeat, DOWN -- by a whopping 26 percent by 2005.
How can both sets of statistics be true at the same time? Because most people who are in the top one percent in a given year do not stay in that bracket over the years."

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2011/11/08/numbers_games/page/full/

From Walter Williams: "Eat The Rich"

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2011/04/13/eat_the_rich/page/full/
 
Is there any consensus on how much a person needs to earn, per hour, in order to own even a median home, raise a family, and have some type of health insurance? Obviously, it will vary, somewhat, regionally but there must be some "ball park" figures that are relatively close.
 
Just saying. Doesn't this thread belong in the political cesspool called the.. Holding Tank. :lol:
 
D-Sill-D said:
Is there any consensus on how much a person needs to earn, per hour, in order to own even a median home, raise a family, and have some type of health insurance? Obviously, it will vary, somewhat, regionally but there must be some "ball park" figures that are relatively close.
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That's a good question. I've seen stats that entry into the top 50% of tax returns required AGI in the mid 30's and to break into the to the upper 25% it was in the upper 60's I think. What I do is try to imagine how far that would go and it isn't long before the money is used up.
 
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D-Sill-D said:
Is there any consensus on how much a person needs to earn, per hour, in order to own even a median home, raise a family, and have some type of health insurance? Obviously, it will vary, somewhat, regionally but there must be some "ball park" figures that are relatively close.
Click to expand...

Woody said:
Given the fact that so may in the lower half need some financial support via social programs and tax policies I wonder what kind of income it would take for them to stand on their own. What ever that amount would be would have to come from their employees and therein lies one of our problems.
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The original question will vary with location In Indiana one would need to make $35k to buy a median home. NY would be more like $100k, that is based on the traditional 28% of income going toward housing. The Indiana family needs $19 an hour for 40 hours to do this. The NY family needs $52 an hour to do this. Remember, this is family income so it could be obtained from more than one member. MM
 
D-Sill-D said:
Is there any consensus on how much a person needs to earn, per hour, in order to own even a median home, raise a family, and have some type of health insurance? Obviously, it will vary, somewhat, regionally but there must be some "ball park" figures that are relatively close.
Click to expand...

For security, $120 -$150k / year. Using 1040 / 2080 calculations, that is $57.69 before benefits. Buys the milk and some lux in Omaha. $84k buys the median house at $168k. That traditional ratio keeps you out of trouble. Omaha proves that. Common sense banker C.L. Landon died here 11/11. RIP. It is up to the junior Landons (SNB Omaha), the Dinsdales (Pinnacle) and possibly the Lauritzens (FNBO) to keep that tradition now.
 
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Ka1oxd said:
I guess there is 1 US Senator that does not want to get re-elected. HE just issued a report showing how the rich get breaks and that the loop holes were crafted for them

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=bb1c90bc-660c-477e-91e6-91c970fbee1f
Click to expand...

That guy shouldn't get re-elected because he's a moron. That report is filled with holes and it's an attempt to create class warfare with twisted and out of context facts. The guy is just trying to save his job. Anyone stupid enough to believe that report deserves to be in the bottom 10%. Should have paid attention in middle school.
 
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Woody said:
Given the fact that so many in the lower half need some financial support via social programs and tax policies I wonder what kind of income it would take for them to stand on their own. What ever that amount would be would have to come from their employeers and therein lies one of our problems.
Click to expand...

Woody, I do agree with the last part of your statement however I am inclined to believe, based in no small part by personal observations, that many of these people could stand on their own if they really tried to live within their means.

Take a drive through your local "bad neighborhood" sometime and you will see what I mean. I am confident you will see there is no shortage of new cars, many of them luxury cars (or junkers with $10K worth of wheels on them), most people in sight are standing around in designer clothing talking on Droid and IPhones. I have a feeling if you walked in to some of these section 8 houses, you would find plenty of flat screen TVs, gaming systems, high end electronics, etc. I have posted here before about the countless times I have been in the grocery store and seen folks buy $200 or $300 worth of meat and other items, making no secret it was for a neighborhood get together. Then after they pay for all that with Food Stamps, they use $150 of their cash to buy a few cartons of cigarrettes and several cases of beer and wine. These are some of the same people that just can not seem to make it on their own.

My thought on the matter is that poverty is in large part caused by lack of personal responsibility. Why should one be driving a $50,000 Lexus if you are making $10/hr part time and on food stamps? Something tells me that if you took a random sampling of people in "poverty" currently either without a job or say at a $25,000/yr salary; then take them and cut off all benefits after which give them a $70,000/yr salary, I think you would see no change in all in the living conditions of more than half that group.
 
In Canada the goverment has a tax on all goods and services (GST) except food and health care. It was reduced 2% and the estimated loss of tax was 10 billion a year. Based on this and the US has a population 10 times Canada a 5% GST it would generate 250 billion. The president who introduces this will probably not get reelected, but will create a balanced budget and pay down debt.
I would not want to be in goverment as there seen to be no way to fix things and remain in power.
 
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