What would you do to revive the US economy?

[Pyrojodge]

This is what kills me about this forum now. This is supposed to be a forum around Sea Rays. Have you all checked out what these things cost? Go check out a new 52 DB... or a new 47 DB... You don't buy these boats by working 9 to 5 putting fenders on a car in Detroit. The people on here that own these machines are mostly business owners that built their own wealth and have a hobby with an expensive toy. Coming on here and talking about how these people are not paying their "fair share" is absurd. The government taking their boats away won't get you a better job. I don't care what MSNBC tells you.

Maybe we need a different board for people who like Sea Rays, cruising, etc and don't have to listen to the "I made some bad decisions in my career and like to whine and you need to pay for it" crowd... hmmm...

Gary I would agree with you... this is why I went back to school to better myself and my education. I am tired of hearing my peers B.... about what wasn't given to them and just put you nose to the grind stone and work for what you want... work it seems is a bad word any more...

 

[Ka1oxd]

Since when did corporations become people and be covered by the Constitution and the bill of rights? Remember the preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

A corporation is setup to create an entity that will outlive the person who started it. They are not people and where in the Constitution grants them the same rights? Who pays for the roads, the rail, the ports that the companies use? Is the citizens of this country responsible for paying this so that companies have no responsibility?

From James Madison: Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions. "

If the firms that employ an increasing majority of the population are driven solely to satisfy the owner's greed at the expense of working conditions, of the stability of the community, and of the health of the environment, chances are that the quality of our lives will be worse than it is now.

 

[Pack66Dad]

This is what kills me about this forum now. This is supposed to be a forum around Sea Rays. Have you all checked out what these things cost? Go check out a new 52 DB... or a new 47 DB... You don't buy these boats by working 9 to 5 putting fenders on a car in Detroit. The people on here that own these machines are mostly business owners that built their own wealth and have a hobby with an expensive toy. Coming on here and talking about how these people are not paying their "fair share" is absurd. The government taking their boats away won't get you a better job. I don't care what MSNBC tells you.

Maybe we need a different board for people who like Sea Rays, cruising, etc and don't have to listen to the "I made some bad decisions in my career and like to whine and you need to pay for it" crowd... hmmm...

 

[Pack66Dad]

Since when did corporations become people and be covered by the Constitution and the bill of rights? Remember the preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

A corporation is setup to create an entity that will outlive the person who started it. They are not people and where in the Constitution grants them the same rights? Who pays for the roads, the rail, the ports that the companies use? Is the citizens of this country responsible for paying this so that companies have no responsibility?

From James Madison: Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions. "

If the firms that employ an increasing majority of the population are driven solely to satisfy the owner's greed at the expense of working conditions, of the stability of the community, and of the health of the environment, chances are that the quality of our lives will be worse than it is now.

 

[Four Suns]

Since when did corporations become people and be covered by the Constitution and the bill of rights? Remember the preamble to the Constitution:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

A corporation is setup to create an entity that will outlive the person who started it. They are not people and where in the Constitution grants them the same rights? Who pays for the roads, the rail, the ports that the companies use? Is the citizens of this country responsible for paying this so that companies have no responsibility?

From James Madison: Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions. "

If the firms that employ an increasing majority of the population are driven solely to satisfy the owner's greed at the expense of working conditions, of the stability of the community, and of the health of the environment, chances are that the quality of our lives will be worse than it is now.

They why charge corporations taxes? Can't have it both ways....

 

[Four Suns]

I just would like to know how everbody was brought up and how they make there living today to reflect there view on how to fix this mess, or what it wrong with it.

Here you go... I was raised in a small town in Michigan with all my relatives working for the auto industry. I lived on a dirt road in a 1200 sq. ft. house and our family was 4 kids and 2 adults. My parents risked everything and moved to a northern town in Michigan and built a small restaurant that served coney dogs to tourists. I was the last child and only child to go to college and paid for it myself. I got a job working for NASA as an intern and alternated working a semester and school and it took me 5 years full time to get my first engineering degree... lived in a crap hole apartment by Langley with 3 other guys. Married a great woman. Decided to get a masters degree in computational fluid dynamics and went to Mississippi and lived in a mobile home where sitting on the toilet meant falling through to the ground. Possums would crawl through the duct work at night. Worked a total of 14 years at NASA with my stent there giving me the NASA Exceptional Achievement Medal ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Exceptional_Achievement_Medal ) for work on computer networking and Internet technology. Got hit by a car and in the midst of taking anti-depressants from the trauma, left my career 6 years from retirement and risk my house on a software company (gotta love happy pills)... Was 1 week from declaring bankruptcy a year later. Ended up turning it around, got to $7M in annual revenue (my salary was $50K as CEO), and sold it to a big software company a few years later with 35 employees and gave investors a 14X return on their money. Became a direct report to the CEO of the biggest security software company... flew over a million miles... on each of two different airlines... Stock split 3 times and gave investors a 10x from the day I started. Left there and been involved with several other technology companies, venture firms and now a medical company. I work 7 days a week 18 hours a day. Tried retiring and it gave me high blood pressure. Every time I made a change in my life, starting with leaving a Coney Island restaurant in East Tawas, MI was greeted with people telling me how silly I was because of the "risk."

So if anyone wants to tell me I don't pay my "fair share" and have had things handed to me, they can kiss my a$$. I've created many high paying jobs, started many corporations, rewarded many investors, paid a lot of taxes and given much to charity... and yes I bought an expensive boat. The government needs to just get out of the way, cut off "free money" to people, and educate people that hard work pays off. Oh yeah... "high risk" does not mean buying lottery tickets, drinking beer and watching Rachel Maddow... it means investing in advancing your career. People send their kids off to college today, get student loans and get a degree in "History" or "English" and then b!tch about no jobs. Give me a break. Trying to tell me that someone else not having a job is my fault in some way is a joke.

The neat thing is... My story is probably similar to other people on CSR... I know... because I know them personally. And some of the dorks own big stinky gas boats.

 

[Pack66Dad]

Gary I would agree with you... this is why I went back to school to better myself and my education. I am tired of hearing my peers B.... about what wasn't given to them and just put you nose to the grind stone and work for what you want... work it seems is a bad word any more...

Pyrojodge: I think your mistaken.

The whining I hear is not "give me" but "give me a chance". The playing field is not level for all and that is what people and small businesses are complaining about. I saw a post not long ago by four suns saying something about a product he is trying to bring to market. He blamed the "government" because there are so many regulations in the US that he has to bring it into Europe to get it started. Truth be known one of the giant corporations that wants to squash start-ups with good ideas in their market probably paid a hell of a lot to lobbyists for those regulations to protect their monopoly here in the states. In other words, Gary is protecting and advocating for the very corporate entities that are bending him over and letting him have it in the rear end. Its easier for him to "blame the government" instead of blaming the giant multi-natioinal corporations (that he mistakenly thinks he is one of) who have purchased, and now own government.

 

[MonacoMike]

Stop crony capitalism, No government money to private business other than purchases.

Greatly reduce regulation and stop competitors from using it to hold others out of the market.

Get the government out of business. From home lending to flood insurance.

Pyrojodge: I think your mistaken.

The whining I hear is not "give me" but "give me a chance". The playing field is not level for all and that is what people and small businesses are complaining about. I saw a post not long ago by four suns saying something about a product he is trying to bring to market. He blamed the "government" because there are so many regulations in the US that he has to bring it into Europe to get it started. Truth be known one of the giant corporations that wants to squash start-ups with good ideas in their market probably paid a hell of a lot to lobbyists for those regulations to protect their monopoly here in the states. In other words, Gary is protecting and advocating for the very corporate entities that are bending him over and letting him have it in the rear end. Its easier for him to "blame the government" instead of blaming the giant multi-natioinal corporations (that he mistakenly thinks he is one of) who have purchased, and now own government.

So Pack, Can we agree on the top two from my abreviated list and should agree on the last? MM

 

[wetpaint]

As a small business owner who owned a bartending company at 18, a limousine and auto detail company at 21 while working 70-80 hours a week starting a painting company for a total of 100 plus hours a week during prom and wedding season. I have 200 employees during the summer season and have never laid off a office person even during the tough times.....I have lines of credit with all my assets used to secure the line, I get sued, I dont get paid, I lost my marriage due to working so much and today I am lucky enough to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I pay full tuitions at prep school for my kids and will pay full tuitions in college which will afford other peoples children to attend school.......I dont mind paying taxes and I pay my fair share along with the 200 people I employ........I do not take loans out for toys and I bought a house that was 1/2 the value of what I could have bought as that holds true for the boat. I have never missed one alimony or child payment in 11 1/2 years. I am sick of people that believe I have lived a life of entitlement and I should pay more...I am in no way the top 1% either.....In fact I have 3 office employees that make more money than I do right now.....I have taken chances, I have made smart decisions (along with dumb ones), I have risked my own assets and I make less money today than I did 5 years ago. How about this to stimulate the economy.......For all tax payers, you get a one time check in the amount of taxes you have paid individually over 2009, 2010 and 2011.....In essence you get that money back.....For people that are on life long welfare, screw you! For people making over 250K individually, screw you.......For those that pay no taxes, screw you........Now for corporations......If you have paid taxes to the United States, you get a three year tax credit for the amount you have paid in 2009, 2010 and 2011.........In 2014 we go to a flat tax that is applicable to 100% of people with no tax loopholes..The rich will pay more, the lower 1/3 will finally start to pay and middle class will pay about the same........We do away with welfare after one year for anyone...There are jobs at Mcdonalds, Burger King, etc...You just dont want to work!!! The government plays by the same rules as the private sector as far as health care, pensions, etc.......Corporate taxes must be reduced in order to generate jobs and bring companies back to the US.......Until such time people are rewarded for saving, making good decisions, working hard, not assuming debt, etc!!!...ACCOUNTABILITY!!!!!!! Ona last thing....There are many people who dont own businesses who work very hard and have made good decisions and own very nice boats....You deserve it!!!!! America has become lazy and a country of entitlements.....By the way, social security and medicare/caid are not entitlements.....Receiving a check, housing and health care is an entitlement!!!!!

 

[Four Suns]

9-9-9.... No loop holes and lay off over 100K people (IRS agents, tax lawyers, etc.)

 

[Pack66Dad]

So Pack, Can we agree on the top two from my abreviated list and should agree on the last? MM

Mike, I think those three problems (and many others) would be solved by one common sense regulation: No private money in politics/government. No lobbyists, no private political contributions to individual candidates, 10 year moratorium on government employees getting jobs in the industries they regulate and a life sentence for politicians (or their aides) convicted of taking bribes or kick backs.

 

[MonacoMike]

Mike, I think those three problems (and many others) would be solved by one common sense regulation: No private money in politics/government. So only the rich will be able to afford to run for office? No lobbyists, So no one can can talk to their elected represenatives? no private political contributions to individual candidates, See previous responses. 10 year moratorium on government employees getting jobs in the industries they regulate We hire them we can make that law if they will pass it. and a life sentence for politicians (or their aides) convicted of taking bribes or kick backs. Sounds like a huge incentive to find dirt on your political opponents.

My comments in red above. I'll add term limits to all the things on my original list. Most of what you do not like would be eliminated if the government did not regulate so much and competitors couldn't gain an edge with regulations and taxation instead of a better product or service. MM

 

[320Bob]

9-9-9.... No loop holes and lay off over 100K people (IRS agents, tax lawyers, etc.)

Besides getting rid of a useless portion of the economy the national sales tax part of this proposal will get the underground economy and illegals to pay their "fair share" that isn't being paid now!

 

[wetpaint]

FORCED/Mandatory 8 Year Term Limits would be Excellent!!!! I would also like to see all 50 states get to vote for one democrat and one republican so we have balance in washington and we dont go through what occurred in the first two years of Obama's term........Policies being rammed down our throats......

 

[Ka1oxd]

They why charge corporations taxes? Can't have it both ways....

Then you are for corporations not paying taxes on the property they own? That includes assets they they have? Then no one should pay on the property they own or the assets they have. Will Rogers best summed it up: “The fundamental class division in any society is not between rich and poor, or between farmers and city dwellers, but between tax payers and tax consumers” Look at all the tax breaks the corporations use that are not available to the average citizen. The tax code is a problem, but that does not mean the corporations have the first amendment rights.

 

[Four Suns]

Then you are for corporations not paying taxes on the property they own? That includes assets they they have? Then no one should pay on the property they own or the assets they have.

There is no such thing as a federal property tax (yet anyways). If you are paying a federal property tax, you need to talk to your accountant. Property taxes are a local thing and I can assure you that every company I have run, owned, worked for has paid property taxes (equipment, etc) in this state... plenty of them.

 

[MonacoMike]

Since when did corporations become people and be covered by the Constitution and the bill of rights? Remember the preamble to the Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

A corporation is setup to create an entity that will outlive the person who started it. They are not people and where in the Constitution grants them the same rights? Who pays for the roads, the rail, the ports that the companies use? Is the citizens of this country responsible for paying this so that companies have no responsibility?

From James Madison: Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions. "

If the firms that employ an increasing majority of the population are driven solely to satisfy the owner's greed at the expense of working conditions, of the stability of the community, and of the health of the environment, chances are that the quality of our lives will be worse than it is now.

Corporations are owned by people who have free speech rights. That is where corporations get free speech rights, after legislation was passed that restricted it and overturned by the SCOTUS. Think for a monent, the government passes a law that puts the corporation you work for at a huge disadvantage, they shouldn't be able to speak up about it? Elect people that will vote to change this law? MM

 

[Ka1oxd]

I am not saying the people who own corporations do not have the right to free speech. I am saying that those people who own the company cannot and should not use their corporate funds to advocate a position that is beneficial to the corporation. What the Supreme court did was to allow those corporate funds now to be used to place politicians into power.

This now creates an ethical and moral problem. Just like our Senators and Congressman who are privy to non-public information and can buy / trade stock as an insider trade would occur and that is legal since they are not bound by those rules.

I am sorry that we did not learn from history, Rome is burning again! Only this time it is called the USA.

 

[bigblockcutlass]

Here you go... I was raised in a small town in Michigan with all my relatives working for the auto industry. I lived on a dirt road in a 1200 sq. ft. house and our family was 4 kids and 2 adults. My parents risked everything and moved to a northern town in Michigan and built a small restaurant that served coney dogs to tourists. I was the last child and only child to go to college and paid for it myself. I got a job working for NASA as an intern and alternated working a semester and school and it took me 5 years full time to get my first engineering degree... lived in a crap hole apartment by Langley with 3 other guys. Married a great woman. Decided to get a masters degree in computational fluid dynamics and went to Mississippi and lived in a mobile home where sitting on the toilet meant falling through to the ground. Possums would crawl through the duct work at night. Worked a total of 14 years at NASA with my stent there giving me the NASA Exceptional Achievement Medal ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Exceptional_Achievement_Medal ) for work on computer networking and Internet technology. Got hit by a car and in the midst of taking anti-depressants from the trauma, left my career 6 years from retirement and risk my house on a software company (gotta love happy pills)... Was 1 week from declaring bankruptcy a year later. Ended up turning it around, got to $7M in annual revenue (my salary was $50K as CEO), and sold it to a big software company a few years later with 35 employees and gave investors a 14X return on their money. Became a direct report to the CEO of the biggest security software company... flew over a million miles... on each of two different airlines... Stock split 3 times and gave investors a 10x from the day I started. Left there and been involved with several other technology companies, venture firms and now a medical company. I work 7 days a week 18 hours a day. Tried retiring and it gave me high blood pressure. Every time I made a change in my life, starting with leaving a Coney Island restaurant in East Tawas, MI was greeted with people telling me how silly I was because of the "risk."

So if anyone wants to tell me I don't pay my "fair share" and have had things handed to me, they can kiss my a$$. I've created many high paying jobs, started many corporations, rewarded many investors, paid a lot of taxes and given much to charity... and yes I bought an expensive boat. The government needs to just get out of the way, cut off "free money" to people, and educate people that hard work pays off. Oh yeah... "high risk" does not mean buying lottery tickets, drinking beer and watching Rachel Maddow... it means investing in advancing your career. People send their kids off to college today, get student loans and get a degree in "History" or "English" and then b!tch about no jobs. Give me a break. Trying to tell me that someone else not having a job is my fault in some way is a joke.

The neat thing is... My story is probably similar to other people on CSR... I know... because I know them personally. And some of the dorks own big stinky gas boats.

I guess I owe you this, I grew up with my father being a Journery Machine Repair Worker and farmer with doing other side work. I am a Journey Toolmaker and does side work to pay for my toys. If I don't pay cash for it, I don't buy it!
I believe in what most people on this site believe in, but most strongly that Manufacturing built this country and is needed to substain it. Selling Healt insurance and IRA's does not sustain this country we must produce something.
I would like to say, "If you don't want to work, get out of our country, I don't want to support you!!!"

 

[MonacoMike]

I am not saying the people who own corporations do not have the right to free speech. I am saying that those people who own the company cannot and should not use their corporate funds to advocate a position that is beneficial to the corporation. What the Supreme court did was to allow those corporate funds now to be used to place politicians into power.

This now creates an ethical and moral problem. Just like our Senators and Congressman who are privy to non-public information and can buy / trade stock as an insider trade would occur and that is legal since they are not bound by those rules.

I am sorry that we did not learn from history, Rome is burning again! Only this time it is called the USA.

So putting your money in the form of a corporation costs the right of free speech? I'll never understand that line of thinking. You also have this all backward, what the Supreme Court did was to put back a right the politicians had usurped. The more we try to restrict political contributions (free speech) the more power politicians have. MM