What is normal amount of water in bilge? 400 fly

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Laualarry, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    21
    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    I am about to take delivery of a new 400 fly. During our sea trial and poking around, I noticed what seemed to me as a large amount of water in the bilge. It was about 4-5 inches deep and the water was even visible in one of the forward hatches (floor of aft cabin). I asked the dealer about this and they said maybe it was because it had just been washed. This does not make sense to me as everything topside should drain overboard. That being said, I am coming from only owning outboard boats (Boston whaler, Grady white, Pursuit) so my bilge usually never had any water at all. What should I be expecting with regard to quantity of water in the bilge?
     
  2. ZZ13

    ZZ13 Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 25, 2009
    Lady's Island, SC
    2001 400 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins 450 Diamond
    It depends on the design of the boat. Some boats actually are designed to have stuff drain to the bilge. On my '01 400 Sedan Bridge there is actually a water collection trough where the engine room vents are. The trough collects any water that gets into the vent area and directs it via a hose to the bilge. Water only gets in there if it's blowing sideways or you hold a hose to it while washing/rinsing the boat.

    Somehow you should find out what if anything is designed to drain to the bilge.
     
  3. Creekwood

    Creekwood Well-Known Member

    Apr 26, 2009
    Oakville and Georgian Bay, Ontario
    '97 330 Sundancer
    2X 454 w/ vDrives
    That amount of water sounds very suspicious and cannot be from washing the boat. It if is getting that far forward to the hatches in the aft, there is a leak somewhere. That broker sounds very unscrupulous and either is lying or incompetent or maybe both. Tread VERY carefully. Get a proper marine survey and an engine survey by a good diesel mechanic. If they have lied to you you may be able to get the dealer to repair whatever is wrong. IF you have not closed yet, I would wait and tell them you need this investigated before you agree to close.
     
    Laualarry likes this.
  4. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Even if it were caused by rain or from washing the bilge pump should have emptied it before it got to that point.
    I’d start with the simplest thing to check which would be all the float switches including the ones in the shower sumps.
    Water that far forward might mean it is originating under the cabin floor.
    If you find that the floats in the sumps aren’t working:
    Is it possible that the dealer had the ac/heat running for a long period of time?
    The forward sump on my boat collects water for the shower in the forward head and the forward ac condensation.
    The aft sump is for the shower in the aft head and the salon ac condensation.
    Your boat is a different model but might be set up similarly.
     
    Laualarry likes this.
  5. bobeast

    bobeast Dance the Tide SILVER Sponsor

    528
    Oct 22, 2017
    Isleton, CA
    2002 310DA
    350 MPI w/V-drives
    Seems like your float switch should be mounted lower than that in which case the bilge pump should empty it out. Be very careful about a boat that has potentially had high water in the bilge for extended periods of time. Such a condition just begs for stringer rot.
     
  6. Espos4

    Espos4 Active Member

    470
    Jan 1, 2017
    Long Island NY
    2007 240 Sundeck
    350 MAG Bravo 3 W/DTS
    New as in brand new? Or new to you?
     
  7. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    This does not necessarily mean there is anything wrong. I wouldn’t get all excited about the level of the bilge water until you until you examine the boat’s systems and know what the normal bilge water level is after you manually trigger the float switch when the bilge is dry.

    How much bilge water remains is partly a product the boat’s design. I wouldn’t try to change the factory determined location. Doing so will usually lead to fast bilge pump cycling and that leads to early float switch and pump failure.

    The deck hatch design on Sea Rays is such that it is very easy for wash water to overflow the hatch gutter. The overflow goes over the inside of the gutter and falls in the bilge where it follows the lumber holes and eventually reaches the sump. The pressure from a hose nozzle easily pushes water over the gutter.

    So, get to know your boat and don’t over react. Listen for the abnormal like a pump cycling when all faucets are off. A drop of water under the edge or end of. both ends of all the engine water hoses, and look for drip lines wher wasted has run along the bilge as it seeks a low spot .
     
  8. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    21
    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    Brand New. This is why I am concerned.
     
  9. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    21
    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    Thanks everyone, good stuff. I think I will contact SR and see what the design is for this bilge. I would like to know if anything is supposed to drain into the bilge and at what point the float should activate. I will have the dealer check all connections and see if we can find any leaks. Just a bit disappointing for a brand new boat. I would not think water should be in the forward parts of the boat at all.
     
  10. northern

    northern Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    Taste water. It might give you idea where it is coming from. Better still ask sales person to taste the water.
     
    Laualarry likes this.
  11. RollerCoastr

    RollerCoastr Well-Known Member

    Nov 15, 2007
    Cedar Point, OH / Miami, FL / MacRay Harbor, MI
    1997 400DA
    340HP 7.4 Mercruiser Bluewaters
    Garmin 8212, 741 24HD, Intellian I2
    1999 280BR
    Twin 250HP Merc 350 Alpha Ones
    I would not accept 4-5” of water as “normal”.
     
  12. quality time

    quality time Well-Known Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Upper Chesapeake Bay
    2003 480DB and Kencraft 190 CC
    QSM11's
    The bilges are bone dry in my 14 year old boat so there's no acceptable reason for a brand new $1MM+ boat to have 4-5 inches of water there. I personally would not close until they figure it out.
     
    Laualarry likes this.
  13. Alegria

    Alegria Well-Known Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Lancaster,PA Boat: -Sue Creek, MD
    2000 410 DA
    3126 CAT
    I agree with Quality Time. I have no standing water outside my ER bilge in any forward compartments. In the one compartment that houses my sump pumps there is a back up bilge pump in case a sump fails and water overflows which is not a normal state. I do have some residual water in the engine room bilge but never 4-5"... 1/4" max that the pumps can't get out, the check valves on my 17 yo hoses have long since failed and they are on the replace list...

    I think you have a valid concern and an issue that needs addressed before you take final delivery... Just my $0.02... If you are in salt water, taste it to see if it's fresh. If its salt you have fewer areas to look. If it fresh then you need to look at every faucet, drain, hose the leads down into the bilge.

    Good Luck, beautiful boat you want to make sure you start off on the best footing!
     
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  14. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    21
    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    Thanks again to everyone for the great insight. I now have an idea of what to expect and it is not what I saw. I spoke with the dealership owner and he said they had not done their in house survey of the boat yet and the issue will be fixed prior to delivery which is supposed to be this Friday. I most defiantly will not accept the boat as is and I will want to know what the problem was. As this is my first inboard boat, I really appreciate the this forum and how everyone seems to be so helpful.
     
  15. Strecker25

    Strecker25 Well-Known Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    1998 290 Sundancer
    Twin 5.7EFI/Alphas, Kohler 4kw
    Did he say what the issue was? As in, exactly where the water is coming from?

    It might be late in the game now, but many people do hire their own surveyor prior to delivery and closing of a new boat, that might be an option you could explore before accepting delivery of yours.

    good luck, post pictures once you have it
     
    Doc O Rock likes this.
  16. The Bill Collector

    The Bill Collector Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jun 2, 2008
    Tacoma, WA
    450 Sundancer
    3126 Cat's
    My E.R. is bone dry and my boat is 20 years old. I was in there yesterday as part of my weekly inspection.
     
  17. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Let the dealer do their survey, fix the issues.

    With a new boat you have a warranty period. After you take delivery, have a survey done at that point. Let the surveyor build you a punch list that you then have the dealer work on.

    If there are problem areas, you might do another survey 3 months before warranty ends.

    A 40 foot boat can be complex. I imagine just about any new boat will have a punch list after delivery.

    I cannot imagine building a house and not having a punch list of items.

    Certainly would not want 4 inches of water in the bilge, but I would imagine it can be resolved.
     
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  18. JVM225

    JVM225 Well-Known Member

    Apr 8, 2008
    Farmingdale, NY
    2002 410 Sundancer, Monaco Edition.
    3126 Cats.
    Curious to hear what this was. Please post the outcome.
    If there is a problem, it’s probably something simple and will be taken care of.
    In the meantime: Congratulations and best of luck with the new boat.
     
  19. northern

    northern Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2007
    West coast Vancouver to Alaska
    380 Aft Cabin 1989 GPS and Charts by Nobeltec
    Twin 454 strait shaft
    No idea if you have an anti siphon on the generator cooling water to the manifold after it leave the engine. I have one and it dribbles water into the bilge.
     
  20. Laualarry

    Laualarry New Member

    21
    Dec 3, 2017
    400 Fly 2018
    2 x 480-hp Cummins QSB6.7 480 HO Diesel V-Drives
    Will let you know after this weekend. Thanks.
     

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