water in bilge, black stains- thoughts?

[True North]

'88 270DA in excellent shape. Boat is stored on triple axle loadmaster trailer in enclosed storage. Boat is wet slipped on weekends when we use it. PO also kept boat on trailer and in storage with minimal usage 7 years leading up to when I purchased 2 years ago. Previous owner before that did have it slipped part time in the water for a few years (original owner). Boat really is in excellent shape, solid and I have done some updates to the interior (lighting, flooring, TV, stereo, etc.)

My only "concern" with this boat is I always have water in the bilge when i have it wet slipped, and have no clue where it is coming from. I have looked and can't see any water spots/stains, but have limited sight behind the motors. It's not a lot, but enough that the bilge pump will run every hour or so for about a 10 second spurt, or if I shift my weight around jumping on the swim platform, it will cause it to to off. I usually pull the plug when I pull the boat out, and i would estimate about 2-3 gallons total. Less than 2" deep at the furthest point back in the bilge when floating in the water.

Secondly, I have a couple of irregular shaped "objects" built into my bilge that are coated with the original sealcoat in the bilge, starboard side, just below the stringers. What are these for (see photos)? One of them has a spot where I get a small leak and has now started leaving a black skum path. I can use my finger to cause a siphon effect and get water to come out of it. All the hull around this spot (inside and out) and even right around this small hole seems very solid (no mush feel with a small screwdriver). Thoughts?

I was told by a dockmate who has a similar boat that "all these old boats leak a little". The water in the bilge has been since I owned it, but the other black smudge only this season. Prior to me even putting this boat in the water I had all new bellows, gaskets, seals, etc. replaced by an authorized marine mechanic.

Thoughts? And should I be concerned about the little amount of water that is getting into my bilge? If so where should I look? Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[KC_Sundancer]

Not sure why those pads are there? The tea stain is most likely from rotted wood within those pads.
Is it possible they were put in for filling of transducer holes by a P.O.?
It may very well be your source of the leak if the holes were not plugged properly.
Maybe lay a paper towel near the stain and see if it gets wet and how quickly.

Get a mirror and flashlight to look for possible leaks around the transom assemblies.
If your lucky it's just a tear in a u-joint or shift linkage bellow.
Sometimes raising the outdrive will increase the leak with a bellow tear.
Also check around the outdrives to be sure the transom is solid.
You will see in the post below what I knowingly purchased into with a water leak from transom rot.


Here is a link to a 270DA thread we put together a few years ago that may help you in this or future investigations. http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/52504-Official-(1982-1988)-270DA-Thread?highlight=

 

[SCORPIO]

I think those 'pads' were installed at the factory. They are usually for mounting thru hulls, transducers or seacocks. My 89 300 DA has several like that in various places in the bilge.
The black stains is probably from the wood core in one of those pads having gotten wet and begun to rot.
As to the leak, I agree with KC, get a mirror and light or an inspection camera if you have access to one, and look at everything you can find. Does this water come in just sitting still or does it happen when the engine is running or on plane?

You could have a leaky Y-pipe, a leaky bellows, or a leak at the transom assembly.
Let us know what you find.

BTW is your drain plug leaking water into the boat? It could be leaking around the female fitting in the transom or at the plug itself.
Trim tab actuators can leak water into the boat also if not sealed properly.

 

[JimG]

If your bilge pump kicks on every hour, you have a serious leak. Tell your dock mate that it is not normal! Look around the out drive, steering pin, transom plug, and run the motor and look for hose leaks. Also check your fresh water tank and holding tank (the black stains?) for possible sources.

And as KC pointed out, the pads are factory installed for optional sea-cocks and transducers... those will not be the source of any leak.

 

[KC_Sundancer]

... those will not be the source of any leak.

Not that bad of a leak anyway.
From the stains in his photos though, there appears to be a possible internal moisture/rot issue with the larger one. :huh:

 

[True North]

yes KC, I have read through that entire post multiple times.....very impressive. It takes a special person with special skills to take on a project like that, but look what you got now!

Basically I have two issues regarding water in my boat. 1) the water that is leaking from the seacock pads is insignificant towards the main water in my bilge. It appears there is a small hole as part of a possible factory defect in the coating that covers my bilge there as I can take my finger, cause a suctioning motion and get a drip or two to come out. The question is where is that water coming from (other than the obvious) and how do I go about "fixing" it? Do I need to tear into the hull to fix???

2) secondly I have water coming into my bilge that is significant enough that it hold at the level seen in the photo in my original post. Enough that every once in a while my bilge will kick off for 10 seconds and drain, or if I shift my weight around will cause it to go off on occasion.

Things to note:
-When I pull the boat at the end of the weekend, I pull the drain plug and while it's on the ramp to empty the bilge, and boat is in covered storage, so not due to any outside rain event.
-I have put teflon on the drain plug, no difference, but I have not thought about the fact that it could be from outside of the drain hold itself, will check that.
-I have thoroughly searched the entire bilge for any sign of water intrusion (stains, drips, any evidence of water) that I can see to the best of my ability. Including waste tank, H2O heater, water tank, etc. All show no concerns of water leakage.
-Prior to me taking possession of the boat, I had a marine mechanic pull both lower units, change gear lube, all seals, bellows, shift bellows, grease all fittings, etc. I cannot say with any certainty whether or not boat "leaked" before I owned it as it was sitting on a trailer in storage for 7 years by PO prior to me putting it in the water. No I did not sea trial it beforehand, PO and I made a special deal since boat was left in a winterized state- too good of a deal to pass on. Could tell the boat was kept and maintained very well.

Therefore I am thinking I need to thoroughly check behind the motors for evidence of water. I heard about the infamous steering pin leaks and heard you have to basically pull the motors to properly fix that. Hull seems very solid all round the motors (inside/outside of the hull) when poking around it with pointy screwdriver and sounds solid when thumping with small hammer.

The one concern I have, but can see no evidence is the PO for whatever reason passed a depth sounder wire through the hull BELOW THE WATERLINE and filled the opening with the clamshell and silicone. Hole is about 3/8" and filled with silicone inside and out. Again, no clue why they did it that way, but again, no evidence of water and no softness in the hull below or around that spot and sounds solid when thumped with a small hammer???

I will report more after the weekend. Thanks guys!

 

[True North]

Also, it does not seem dependent on if motors are in up or down position, and does not seem more when boat is in motion vs. sitting dockside or boat is running or not. I get no more water trolling for hours fishing than if it is sitting at the dock. Both scenarios I get water......And I have tried putting the outdrives in the up position and let it sit in the water and does not appear to make a difference....

 

[vernh59]

This may be fresh water coming from your system or possibly condensation from your AC.
As for the tea stains, I agree with the others. You have some rotten wood in one (or more) of those pads.

 

[KC_Sundancer]

Sounds like she is in excellent condition.

Vern, I too was just thinking the fresh water system tank, water heater or lines may be a source.
Another possibility is a break in a speedometer tube if your boat has one.
Could be coming from one of the engines, hose, petcock, heat exchanger, freeze plug partially pushed out.

As far as repairing the pads you could use a vibratory cutter like the snapshot below to just remove them if not being used.
Cut the fiberglass covering flush with the inside of the hull, glass and coat the area.
I used this type of tool to cut all the interior glasswork flush and it worked great with no damage to the hull itself.

Good Luck with your leak search!

 

[NorCal Boater]

At this point I think I might hire a surveyor to tap the hull and put a moisture meter on it. That would tell if there is water in those pads and also if there are any other bad spots.

Not to kick you while your down but only as an illustration to others that might read this.... This is why we always recommend getting a survey done. You said the boat was a really good deal but will it still be a really good deal, for you, if you end up spending thousands on repairing a hull breach? That water was most likely there for the PO before you bought it and he wasn't going to say anything to you and you passed on the sea trial. In this case, the only one that this may have been a really good deal for is the seller.

I truly hope I am wrong but at this point I think getting a surveyor in would be money well spent. Good luck, I hope it all works for the better.

Shawn

 

[Getaway]

I'm betting it's the shift pin. If it is, you will notice the water coming in faster when the lower units are all the way up. Get down there with a flashlight and mirror and check for a small stream of water running down the transom from inside the transom bracket. Then raise the lower unit and watch for increased flow.

Also, I'm highly suspicious of the transom and stringers being wet. I'm not sure why Sea Ray or the original boat dealer drilled holes below the water line to pass the speedometer tube and other stuff through the transom, then filled the holes with silicon. Yeah, that's gonna last...

Those holes, plus the trim tab screws and swim platform screws were the source of my water intrusion and caused my transom and stringer rebuild.