Upgrade time HELP

[jmauld]

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GPS - The Axiom has a GPS antenna/receiver integrated but depending upon the boat and location it can be spotty on satellite reception. My Garmin units on the bridge of my boat get about a half of the satellites that the antenna on the bridge roof does. So, I would recommend replacing the antenna/receiver on the arch/roof with a Raymarine Raystar 130 SeatalkNG antenna.

Tom, that GPS unit has been retired and replaced with the RS150.

My axiom also has trouble getting a location through my hardtop. It takes about 2 minutes to get a location and then lags behind me while moving. I just ordered the RS150.

 

[ttmott]

Tom, that GPS unit has been retired and replaced with the RS150.

My axiom has trouble getting a location through my hardtop. It takes about 2 minutes to get a location and then lags behind me while moving. I just ordered the RS150.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[DrPringle]

Not,having much luck finding those. I suspect the top number is a smart craft transducer and the lower number is a speed sensor.

Looks like the first one is a smartcraft transducer
Second one also says it’s a smart craft transducer for speed and depth

 

[KevinC]

Kevin - I doesn't look like yours has the System Link gauges and consequently never had the SC500 display right?

Correct, we did not have an SC500 as we had the Smartcraft Gauges

... Like Kevin said SeatalkNG is NMEA2000 just different connectors on the ends of the cabling; it's a complete mystery why the idiots at Raymarine decided again to do their own thing on cabling....

IIRC, my Axioms 9's were able to plug directly into the N2K network with standard connectors.

-Kevin

 

[ttmott]

IIRC, my Axioms 9's were able to plug directly into the N2K network with standard connectors.
-Kevin

So Raymarine got the message - I didn't know that. Kudos to them. The NMEA2000 connectors are DeviceNet connectors. You no longer need adapters. What about the Ray NG instruments like GPS antenna and depth transducers?

 

[jmauld]

Correct, we did not have an SC500 as we had the Smartcraft Gauges



IIRC, my Axioms 9's were able to plug directly into the N2K network with standard connectors.

-Kevin

Yes, my axiom has a n2k connector on the back. The Ray91 has a seatalkNG connector. Both came with an adapter to switch to the other connector. Looks like they may be moving to n2k on newer products. I do feel like the seatalkng connectors are a better connection than the N2k connectors, but I've also never had a failure in one, so maybe better isn't needed.

 

[jmauld]

Drpringle,

I would start with something like this for a n2k backbone. The 4 outlet unit installs much nicer than a bunch of t's connected together.
https://smile.amazon.com/Digital-Yacht-NMEA-Starter-Cable/dp/B07BL5SVN2/

 

[DrPringle]

Kevin - I doesn't look like yours has the System Link gauges and consequently never had the SC500 display right?
@DrPringle - If your SC500 is still functional and you need/desire to keep it you might want to take a look at the Mercury Smartcraft Connect; it is quite a bit less expensive than the Vessel View displays but should be compatible with your generation of Smartcraft. It will provide all of your existing Smartcraft engine and boat data on a NMEA 2000 network. Maybe @Shaps or @alnav or @SKybolt know what is needed to get it physically connected.
https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/gauges-and-controls/gauges-displays/smartcraft-connect/

Regarding your depth and GPS sensors - it's time to get them modernized.
Depth / Temperature - Do you want fishing capability or simply depth/temperature? This will determine if you want integration into the Axiom or on your new NMEA 2000 network. If you need only depth and water temperature, then change to a NMEA 2000 sounder and then that data is available on all of your instruments. The Airmar DT800-NMEA2000 series is what most are using for depth and temperature.
Speed - Don't go back to a paddlewheel speed sensor which is probably your second through-hull. Remove that and install the plug. The GPS units today provide speed on the network.
GPS - The Axiom has a GPS antenna/receiver integrated but depending upon the boat and location it can be spotty on satellite reception. My Garmin units on the bridge of my boat get about a half of the satellites that the antenna on the bridge roof does. So, I would recommend replacing the antenna/receiver on the arch/roof with a Raymarine Raystar 130 SeatalkNG antenna. Doing this in this fashion the GPS data is available to all instruments connected to the NMEA2000 network. Like Kevin said SeatalkNG is NMEA2000 just different connectors on the ends of the cabling; it's a complete mystery why the idiots at Raymarine decided again to do their own thing on cabling....

The message is to defragment and centralize your boat's instrumentation and get it on the NMEA network. Doing this enables better integration in future additions and upgrades plus as NMEA 2000 is a standard that all marine electronic manufacturers comply, your shopping list is expanded for replacements. For example you do not need to replace the GPS antenna with a Raymarine product you can install a Garmin GPS antenna and it will be fully functional with the other Ray products on the NMEA 2000 network. Same with the depth transducer... But Airmar pretty much manufacturers all sonar products for marine.
Tom

I don’t need fishing
If I cap off the speed transducer will I still get speed on my analog speed gauge ?

 

[ttmott]

I don’t need fishing
If I cap off the speed transducer will I still get speed on my analog speed gauge ?

If your analog speed gauge is part of the Smartcraft network (System Link Gauge) then yes the GPS signal should provide that same information. The only thing I don't know is how to configure your SC500 to select the speed source (transducer vs GPS).

 

[Skybolt]

The issue with upgrading and keeping some of the older equipment when it comes to Raymarine is this, some older Raymarine device(s) that have a SeatalkNG cable still communicate via Seatalk at times. The SeatalkNG cables have a center yellow wire that transmits Seatalk at the same time as SeatalkNG. So that is what got them around some of there short comings with legacy devices. Point in case is I have a previous generation autopilot (SPx10) that is SeatalkNG, but only for it's connected Raymarine devices (because of the fore mentioned yellow wire). Interfacing to it from a Garmin display must be in NMEA0183, even though the pilot head will display the active waypoint through NMEA2000, the course computer will not see that digital information.

Now that said, Raymarine does sell a converter to bridge these issues and also converter cables that go directly from SeatalkNG to NMEA2000, this does not convert Seatalk to N2K, only there converter does that, it just omits that wire. So with one of those cables and the fore mentioned converter you should be good.

But under all circumstances I would run an NMEA2000 network for everything, that is universally compatible with all new devices these day. Get your RM devices and cable them together to that converter and go to NMMEA2000 from there. That way you are compatible with everything else out there, including the Axiom displays and you won't have two different networks on board and you won't necessarily need the HSS (you still might to share charts).

As for the Smartcraft connect it is plug and play and supports up to four engines. It does output to N2K, although not sure if that is exactly what you need or not. Would need pictures to confirm and or what @ttmott asked for. @alnav is good person to ask about this as well, he is very knowledgeable on this.

 

[KevinC]

That way you are compatible with everything else out there, including the Axiom displays and you won't have two different networks on board and you won't necessarily need the HSS (you still might to share charts).

At minimum you will need to have the RayNet and N2K. Any data from the radar, charts, transducers, etc will get shared over that network. You will also use that (in theory) to update the OS on the devices from a single download.

As for the Smartcraft connect it is plug and play and supports up to four engines. It does output to N2K, although not sure if that is exactly what you need or not.

Not sure if the SC Connect is exactly plug and play like the Smartcraft to N2K gateway is. While I have not yet installed one I heard you need to do some programming that only the mercury dealer can do. I would like to verify that soon.

The gateway will only give you the data reading. The SC Connect will give more of a VesselView interface and control on the Raymarine and Garmin MFDs.

-Kevin

 

[jmauld]

It has to be programmed:
https://www.mercruiserparts.com/mer...smartcraft-connect-dual-engine-under-helm-kit

Does this device offer additional data to the axiom that's not available over n2k? I have to assume that it does for it to cost $600 more than the standard n2k gateway.

 

[Skybolt]

At minimum you will need to have the RayNet and N2K. Any data from the radar, charts, transducers, etc will get shared over that network. You will also use that (in theory) to update the OS on the devices from a single download. ...

Yes - Raynet may required as mentioned. But that has little to do with N2K vs SeatalkNG. That is so he RM devices, like radar and dual MFD's can share data.

BTW Kevin, are you the same Kevin that was in Stony Brook Yacht Club a while back?

EDIT:

... Not sure if the SC Connect is exactly plug and play like the Smartcraft to N2K gateway is. While I have not yet installed one I heard you need to do some programming that only the mercury dealer can do. I would like to verify that soon. ..

I assisted on an install of this and you are correct, I had helped the Marine Max service tech get through this. He did have to enter a code at one point to turn on the data and make it available. But I am not sure this is the case in all situations, there is a cut off year on this and I do not know what that is. The rest of the install that I was part of was just plug in and then configure the MFD's and that's where everyone got lost and I haled out a bit. It was the poor guys first install of this type. Garmin only makes available what it see's upon boot time and does not add things it may find after it has booted. Can't speak to RM, they do handle things a bit differently. But are pretty easy to configure as well.

 

[KevinC]

Yes - Raynet may required as mentioned. But that has little to do with N2K vs SeatalkNG. That is so he RM devices, like radar and dual MFD's can share data.

BTW Kevin, are you the same Kevin that was in Stony Brook Yacht Club a while back?

It has to be programmed:
https://www.mercruiserparts.com/mer...smartcraft-connect-dual-engine-under-helm-kit

Does this device offer additional data to the axiom that's not available over n2k? I have to assume that it does for it to cost $600 more than the standard n2k gateway.

This is second hand info....

From my understanding the SC Connect provides a link between the system to allow for a "virtual" vesselview system to be run on the Axiom or Garmins. The enhanced app provides a better visual interface as well as showing error alerts that you would normally see on a smartcraft interface (VV/SC500/Guage sets) and allowing two way interactions for things you could set/reset.

The gateways will just give you the data sets to display on stock gauge screens. So you will get data sets like tach readings for both engines but you will not get an "over speed alert" that may be generated by rev'ing too high.

-Kevin

 

[Skybolt]

... From my understanding the SC Connect provides a link between the system to allow for a "virtual" vesselview system to be run on the Axiom or Garmins. The enhanced app provides a better visual interface as well as showing error alerts that you would normally see on a smartcraft interface (VV/SC500/Guage sets) and allowing two way interactions for things you could set/reset. ...

Exactly, it opens up the Garmin One Helm app to be able to run. But it also seemed to unlocked the N2K data, which that didn't make any sense to me. I came in, in the middle of that install and by mistake as my dock friend asked me to take a look as they were perplexed as I was in the beginning. It took about an hour of futzing and we got everything figured out. The one thing that was unclear to me was the presence of the N2K data having to be unlocked. I am not convinced that needs to happen and may have been part of the rebooting process that allowed it to work as well. I will say this, they make it more complicated then it should be.

The gateways will just give you the data sets to display on stock gauge screens. So you will get data sets like tach readings for both engines but you will not get an "over speed alert" that may be generated by rev'ing too high.

That is totally correct. All "Alarms" will be on the VV display(s) and I believe through the Garmin One Helm app, but not be present on the N2K data as engine alarms through the 127488/9 PGN(s) as they should be. The one helm app is basically an HTML5 web app running on the MFD and is why and how everything can be per manufacturer. Garmin has a spec for that and just needs to allowed the page to be display. Pretty slick way of doing things, except you can't get all the data that way.

 

[jmauld]

I will say this, they make it more complicated then it should be.

And way too expensive for an interface like this.

 

[jmauld]

That is totally correct. All "Alarms" will be on the VV display(s) and I believe through the Garmin One Helm app, but not be present on the N2K data as engine alarms through the 127488/9 PGN(s) as they should be. The one helm app is basically an HTML5 web app running on the MFD and is why and how everything can be per manufacturer. Garmin has a spec for that and just needs to allowed the page to be display. Pretty slick way of doing things, except you can't get all the data that way.

This is the other part that confuses me.

The mobile Bluetooth gateway is $300 and allows you to get all of this info on an iPhone, android phone or tablet. Meanwhile an axiom is just a fancy android device. Why does it need an $1100 gateway to do the same thing?

 

[Skybolt]

This is the other part that confuses me.

The mobile Bluetooth gateway is $300 and allows you to get all of this info on an iPhone, android phone or tablet. Meanwhile an axiom is just a fancy android device. Why does it need an $1100 gateway to do the same thing?

Yeah, confused on all that as well. Garmin isn't quite as expensive but still needs that purchase at the same time. And how much did we spend to only have to spend more, because we can't live without all of this data going every which direction? - I wonder sometimes if I shouldn't go to Boaters Anonymous to get this addiction fixed!

 

[KevinC]

This is the other part that confuses me.

The mobile Bluetooth gateway is $300 and allows you to get all of this info on an iPhone, android phone or tablet. Meanwhile an axiom is just a fancy android device. Why does it need an $1100 gateway to do the same thing?

Good point - my thoughts are that they are recovering the costs to put this on the N2K (probably licensing, testing and certification fees) and probably do some initial development for RM and Garmin (to get the initial apps running) since without those apps the device would be worthless.

-Kevin

 

[jmauld]

I suspect someone who knew android devices well could take the android mobile app, put it on an axiom and have the cheaper gateway work.